Thread: Bhuz vs the real world: 'Professional behaviour'

Hey,

This topic has been on my mind for a while. Those of us that have been on bhuz for a while have learnt the ‘do’s and don’ts’ of ‘professional behaviour’ according to bhuz. Rarely do I disagree with them!

But how many of you have found it different out in the real world.

Let’s have a cathartic list of all the rules we try and follow but seem to get a lot less respect in the real world. I will start with a few examples.

*Perfectly sensible Bhuz rule: Don’t dance to a song unless you know what the lyrics are, or at least the general gist of a song.

I consider myself actually on the lazy side with this. I usually do find a translation or at least a summary. But sometimes, if its on a compilation made by dancers (e.g. oriental fantasy) I assume it is OK for dance and will go ahead only knowing a translation of the title! BUT I get SO MANY eye rolls of other dancers when I say I like to know what a song means before I dance to it. And yes, including fellow bhuzzers!

*Perfectly sensible Bhuz rule: Professional behaviour at a gig – get in, get out quickly and professionally, preserve the mystique by not being seen/minimize contact in regular clothes beforehand/after etc

I am 100% sure that my unwillingness to hang about after a gig (or if I have been cancelled due to lack of customers) and socialise with the staff/customers has counted against me. Also being made to hang about getting in the way in the bar/restaurant area with all my stuff in full view of all the customers when there is a perfectly acceptable changing area I could be waiting in with a lot less awkwardness.

Oh, can I add: being treated LIKE A FREAK because I ask for water/sometimes soda instead of an alcoholic drink!!

*Make up.

Yes I look like a drag queen close up. So many fellow dancers look at you funny for actually looking like you have made an effort with hair/make up. Looking like you are going to the office doesn’t cut it says the perfectly sensible Bhuz rule!!! (Except it is more acceptable in the real world).


I’m sure there are more. . . . . . .

Z

Oh, and I've danced at 3 restaurants where scheduling is done by another dancer, and 1 where it was done by the owners, and I can say contrary to Bhuz wisdom the one where I delt directly with the owner/management was by far the one least riddled with secrecy and bull**** politics and the one I got the most respectful treatment.

I agree with the preserving the mystique part of things about rule 2, but I've often seen dancers take a break after dancing and change a little bit (like take off the belt part of costume) and put on a (can't think of the world right now for that...) middle eastern looking robe and then go out and thank people for coming and mingle briefly. Usually the customers and owners appreciate it. But I agree that changing into regular clothes would be a bit too much of a change and ruin the mystique.

Originally Posted by zafirah

*Perfectly sensible Bhuz rule: Professional behaviour at a gig – get in, get out quickly and professionally, preserve the mystique by not being seen/minimize contact in regular clothes beforehand/after etc

I am 100% sure that my unwillingness to hang about after a gig (or if I have been cancelled due to lack of customers) and socialise with the staff/customers has counted against me. Also being made to hang about getting in the way in the bar/restaurant area with all my stuff in full view of all the customers when there is a perfectly acceptable changing area I could be waiting in with a lot less awkwardness.

Oh, can I add: being treated LIKE A FREAK because I ask for water/sometimes soda instead of an alcoholic drink!!

I often do hang out at my favorite restaurant, both as a patron, and before/after my set (in my street clothes of course). But I worked at another restaurant where I was less comfortable with the staff. I think it did get held against me (as "unfriendly") - that I spent the entire break in the changing room (i.e. manager's office), reading a book. I didn't want to come down & sit at the bar by myself for two hours waiting for my next set.

We have the scheduling issue here too at one club. A specific dancer makes the schedule, and then she hires sub-par dancers so that she never is deleted from the spotlight. I used to get angry, now I just laugh at the drama.

The issue about not hanging out and socializing afterward is a big one! I for one am not going to stay and smoke hookah and breath in second-hand smoke- i.e., risk additional lung cancer over a restaurant gig!

Here is a rule that drives me insane because it's broken:

Dancers who don't wear their cover ups before or after a show. It makes me batty. My mamma always said "all the money in the world can't buy elegance."

I hear dancers talking with customers about their dayjobs and husbands while in full costume after a show, talk about ruining the mystique! "Actually I'm a banker..." I have heard them say... or "I"m studying for my masters."

No one cares if youre Jane the secretary, they want to think when you leave you're leaving on a magic carpet, :O)

My point was, we can all discuss hypotheticals on here, but in the real world, WE are in the minority!!

I find myself using my boyfriend as an excuse and I hate that. He is not like that at all (and I feel strongly that this is MY job not his, he shouldn't have to tag along)! But 'my boyfriend is expecting me home' etc is less awkward than the truth - 'I've done my job, why the hell would i want to hang around here with people i barely know all sweaty and gross when I could be at home in my comfy pajamas?!'

btw, before someone brings this up: I don't mean the kind of meet and greet in costume/with cover up part that often comes with restuarant work, I mean what Lana was talking about, hanging about, chatting about our real lives 'socializing'.

Originally Posted by lana

We have the scheduling issue here too at one club. A specific dancer makes the schedule, and then she hires sub-par dancers so that she never is deleted from the spotlight. I used to get angry, now I just laugh at the drama.

The issue about not hanging out and socializing afterward is a big one! I for one am not going to stay and smoke hookah and breath in second-hand smoke- i.e., risk additional lung cancer over a restaurant gig!

Here is a rule that drives me insane because it's broken:

Dancers who don't wear their cover ups before or after a show. It makes me batty. My mamma always said "all the money in the world can't buy elegance."

I hear dancers talking with customers about their dayjobs and husbands while in full costume after a show, talk about ruining the mystique! "Actually I'm a banker..." I have heard them say... or "I"m studying for my masters."

No one cares if youre Jane the secretary, they want to think when you leave you're leaving on a magic carpet, :O)

Yes, it's true. ,r:;
But sometimes you can't avoid it when people already know you, or if you're relative to someone who hired you, or if you're known from another context (school or job, for exemple) and they're curious about that art they didn't know about you. I think it's an exception and acceptable speaking to people. It also happens when girls want to ask you about classes, after seeing you performing.
In my case, in the city where I live, people know me from another context, completely different from bellydance. When they see me dancing, I hear them saying "Oh, isn't she who I'm thinking?". So, if I don't speak to anyone, people will certainly have a wrong idea of what is going on. And I really don't want it to happen...
In my opinion, it depends on the situation. If I'm in a place where nobody knows me, of course I'll come in and leave the gig only as a dancer. But if people usually don't see me as a dancer and get surprised, the responsability is different...

When I go for gigs, the clothes I take with me to put on afterward are nice, dressy outfits. That way, when I change after my show and emerge from the dressing room, I may be wearing "normal" clothes, but they have enough polish to preserve the memory of glamor.

Do people have any other examples of where bhuz common sense just doesn't work in the real world?

Regarding lyrics- I always know at least the title and gist. Usually now I get translations as well. I work every week with Arabs and find it simply helps my dancing.

Cover up- I see no excuse for showing your costume before or after your performance. Wear a cover up of bring suitable clothes (in terms of coverage and elegance) for the clients and venue.

Preserving the mystique- I agree it's find to stay a moment (after donning cover up) and thanking people who tipped you, who got up to dance or answering questions about the dance or classes.
I know a dancer who used to stay and shmooze at a restaurant until closing (11pm) when the sets were at 7:30. This was in my mind very unprofessional. This was an Arab owned restaurant with ever changing mostly American clientele.
There is an Arab club where I work. I worked there every week for over a year, leaving right afterward despite invitations to stay. After asking the owner who was "ok" (meaning respectful), I started staying for two reasons- 1)to learn Palestinian debka direct from the source and 2) to ask music/ lyrics questions. Two years later and I have made some true friends and have learned more about the culture from experiences there than from any class, workshop or book. If anyone tries to hit on me or dance too close, the regulars help me out. :) Occasionally my husband has come. They treat us like family, yet I have not experienced the dreaded "but we're like family give us a discount" thing.
Do I stay at restaurants and parties? No.

Scheduling dancer vs scheduling owner. I have seen good in both situations and I have seen disasters in both situations. I just try to steer clear of the disasters.

Apparently taking a monthly gig away from a former troupe as the person exits the troupe is acceptable in the "real" world. In fact, in spite of knowing the full details about the situation and understanding that people got hurt--still jumping at the chance to perform there is also completely okay. Furthermore, using the excuse "I need the money" to justify hurtful and unethical behavior is common place in the real world.

It makes me sad. ..cr.:

Socialising with coworkers is almost compulsory in the non-belly dance real world, so it makes a certain amount of sense that you do it to some degree at a regular or would-be regular gig.

I bet you all know someone who never stays for work drinks, never attends work functions, doesn't chat at morning tea, and I also bet you would say that person is widely seen as not committed to the company, and likely to move on sometime soon. A certain amount of social schmoozing is really necessary at work. A regular BD gig would be no different I think.

That is a good point Zumarrad about the staff, but often there is a good few hours between the dancer finishing and the last customer leaving. Meanwhile the dancer has to hang about infront of the customers like a spare part which is not very glamorous or mysterious.

Z

Originally Posted by zafirah

Do people have any other examples of where bhuz common sense just doesn't work in the real world?

Music copyright ethics. Like licensing for haflas and recitals that are such low-budget, low-profit affairs that proper music licensing would make them impossible to put together. Never mind the music learned in class for teaching.

Or not copying music for students who are learning a choreography and don't have internet access or savvy to download a legal copy for themselves. Or music that you've cut for a beginner choreography.

I find it challenging to live up to my own ethics in this area, to tell the truth. Easier now that students CAN legally download single songs, though.

Bhuz rule: Don't teach someone else's choreography that you learnt in a workshop without permission or even better, don't teach a choreo you learnt off a dvd.

Reality: I honestly think that some dancers feel that if permission isn't denied then it as seen as given to do with material what you will, or they genuinely have no idea that permission can or should be given.

I personally enjoy working through a master choreographer's material, examining the way the choreography is constructed is a valuable tool.

Also some teachers are just really isolated and teach more as a co-op of learners, in that case they tend to keep just ahead of the rest of the dancers through studying videos or being the only one to travel to a workshop etc.

Bhuz Rule: If you dance solo it is best to always dance to your own choreography or even that a dancer who doesn't is seen as less of an artist

Reality: There are fantastic masters of oriental choreography out there that create intricate, soulful and technically challenging choreos that demand to be danced, I feel that not facing the challenge of a master choreography, one that takes you out of your comfort zone, will not make you any stronger as a dancer.

Also, just because you're a dancer doesn't mean you're any good at creating dances. Having the skill to move parts of your body on demand doesn't give one the right to inflict awful choreography on an unsuspecting audience or troupe. Some will just never be good at that part of being an oriental dancer and can seriously inhibit their development as a dancer by confining their skill set to only what they can devise to do on stage themselves.

Originally Posted by NandaDncer

Bhuz Rule: If you dance solo it is best to always dance to your own choreography or even that a dancer who doesn't is seen as less of an artist

Is this a bhuz rule? I've never had a problem with people performing a choreography they learned from someone else so long as they attribute the choreographer when the situation provides the opportunity to do so.

Originally Posted by zafirah

btw, before someone brings this up: I don't mean the kind of meet and greet in costume/with cover up part that often comes with restuarant work, I mean what Lana was talking about, hanging about, chatting about our real lives 'socializing'.

Ah, I didn't catch that when I posted about the meet and greet in the cover up. I thought you meant you didn't like that part. But yea, the dancers I know, they might go to a restaurant for lunch here and there on their own time; but I don't recall them every "hanging out" and really socializing.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Is this a bhuz rule? I've never had a problem with people performing a choreography they learned from someone else so long as they attribute the choreographer when the situation provides the opportunity to do so.

I think so... but maybe we've interpreted threads and comments differently when the topic came up. I've always felt there was a bias in the direction of a dancer performing her own choreographies and that performing the choreo of someone else' was somehow not as... er, clever?

I think I have in mind one particular thread... i will do a search but I can't really remember exactly when it was...

Oh and I should add that I agree that properly crediting the choreographer would be a bhuz rule, and one that isn't always done wether through a lack of opportunity or a mistake on behalf of the dancer or organizer or announcer

The rule about hanging around after the show...

Well, I certainly do change into normal clothes. Nothing's gonna keep me in my costume longer than necessary!

But hey, the dessert buffet is one of the reasons I do this job! ..l;,

When I started dancing in restaurant there was always food afterwards, plus I can't eat much before a gig. So eating after the gig is what I am used to.

I normally sit at a separate table while I eat after a gig but if people at a private party (wedding, birthday) invite me to sit with them, I think it would be impolite to refuse. The often have many questions about the dance that I can answer. And they feel flattered to be able to talk to the "star".

Of course there are gigs where I come-dance-leave. Those are fine too.
But I'd never refuse if I am offered cake!

MEISSOUN

Sadly I think there are a lot of dancers who tout rules until they're blue in the face while they're acting quite differently in their own lives.

Bhuz rule: Leaving space in workshops and not burling into people.
Reality: It's always a warzone, and I doubt any of us are immune from eventually thinking "the hell with this" and staking a claim for that precious front row spot. I know I have, although I can barely last five minutes in it without thinking "feck this!" and heading back to the back.

Bhuz rule: honest feedback
Reality: Dudes. Rarely happens in real life, particularly face-to-face. It's very, very difficult to do.

Bhuz rule: No talking or otherwise pissing about while the dancer is on stage
Reality: I've seen this one being done by the very people who've tutted and clucked about it. No, it's NOT ok if you've just found someone you haven't seen in ages/the dancer on stage is a friend and will understand/you've seen this number before/your students are talking to you and asking you questions. I've even been guilty of the last one until I got so embarrassed I had to feign volume-induced deafness to end the conversation. I should really have told them in advance that you don't talk while a dancer is on: NO, not even to ask me who she is. Ask me in the interval, check the programme, or something.

The hanging around socialising thing has been mentioned already - major bugbear for me. Definitely different hanging around chatting to people at a hafla. Not comfortable being REQUIRED to do it at a gig.

Bhuz rule: Know Thy Folk Styles
Reality: OMG, somebody PLEASE know a folk style! ,f:: And for the love of god, just because nobody else knows any bloody folk, could you not force ME to do it at haflas? Yes, I know everyone is doing "Orientale". I might like to have a choice, dammit.

I'm going to slope off now before I rant some more... Oh, and caveat: I don't necessarily mean that I've seen Bhuzzers break the Bhuz rules. Just that people whom I suspect should know better frequently break "our" rules IRL.

I know I mentioned this in the pet peeve thread, but timeliness is such an issue! Whenever there is a what is professional thread, being on time seems like the number one rule. Yet, I know so many people who don't plan for parking, traffic, changing time, etc. If a show starts at 8, you can't arrive at the venue at 8, or 8:15.

Also, I expect classes and gigs to begin and end relatively close to when they are supposed to. I can't have an entire evening monopolized because we have to wait for people to arrive. It is so important that we respect the time of other people.

As for hanging around, I agree with you, Meissoun. I have been invited by diners to join them at their tables after the show. They have always been people who are very interested in the dance and wanted to show their appreciation. In all cases, it also resulted in me being hired for a party or other event.

In one case I got some particularly valuable insights from members of a school board. As a high school teacher, it was such an excellent opportunity. I only revealed that I was a teacher by day when they told me who they were.

I usually keep it short and always wear the coverup. And it's always been my choice. I work early in the morning, so compulsory chitchat that I had no interest in would not be OK with me.

Originally Posted by meissoun

The rule about hanging around after the show...

Well, I certainly do change into normal clothes. Nothing's gonna keep me in my costume longer than necessary!

But hey, the dessert buffet is one of the reasons I do this job! ..l;,

When I started dancing in restaurant there was always food afterwards, plus I can't eat much before a gig. So eating after the gig is what I am used to.

I normally sit at a separate table while I eat after a gig but if people at a private party (wedding, birthday) invite me to sit with them, I think it would be impolite to refuse. The often have many questions about the dance that I can answer. And they feel flattered to be able to talk to the "star".

Of course there are gigs where I come-dance-leave. Those are fine too.
But I'd never refuse if I am offered cake!

MEISSOUN

Originally Posted by lana

No one cares if youre Jane the secretary, they want to think when you leave you're leaving on a magic carpet, :O)

I don't think this is necessarily true. ALL the time I get patrons asking me if dance is how I make my living and what else I do for work.

Originally Posted by meissoun

The rule about hanging around after the show...

Well, I certainly do change into normal clothes. Nothing's gonna keep me in my costume longer than necessary!

But hey, the dessert buffet is one of the reasons I do this job! ..l;,

When I started dancing in restaurant there was always food afterwards, plus I can't eat much before a gig. So eating after the gig is what I am used to.

I normally sit at a separate table while I eat after a gig but if people at a private party (wedding, birthday) invite me to sit with them, I think it would be impolite to refuse. The often have many questions about the dance that I can answer. And they feel flattered to be able to talk to the "star".

Of course there are gigs where I come-dance-leave. Those are fine too.
But I'd never refuse if I am offered cake!

MEISSOUN

Well obviously the rules are different if it involves cake..g.:

Sadly none of the places I ever danced offered me cake ..c::

Z

Originally Posted by zafirah

Well obviously the rules are different if it involves cake..g.:

yeah, that changes everything.

Perhaps part of the reason that BHUZ ethics/behaviour and real life ethics/behaviour differ is because on Bhuz people are open to every aspect of their reasoning being discussed, and the people end up refining their views, and/or justifying themselves. IRL, it's rare (rude even) to be picked over so much, where as here on Bhuz, it's the whole point. In real life I have noticed people think you are naive or not business minded if you behave ethically about your dance life. It *is* possible to be business minded *and* ethical.

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

It *is* possible to be business minded *and* ethical.

Amen.

I have to say that a couple of the people who don't always act ethically in the "real" world are the same people who post here on Bhuz. It's amusing in a sad way. I guess there's more scrutiny here than in the real world and things seem more black and white when they are just words on a computer screen. In the real world, where greed and vanity tempt people to make excuses to get what they really desire, however, it's all shades of gray.

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

In real life I have noticed people think you are naive or not business minded if you behave ethically about your dance life. It *is* possible to be business minded *and* ethical.

Funny- I think it's MORE professional to be ethical. I believe business benefits from having high standards and ethics. ..g.:

I know that sometimes my adherence to my principles has cost me a gig or opportunity, but I am not willing to sacrifice my ethics or what I consider professionalism in order to get ahead. I don't expect everyone to have the same ethical guidelines as me, so it isn't a judgment on them if they choose a different path.

I think that the ethical lines that have caused me to lose the most opportunities have been those regarding pricing and type of acceptable show.

Originally Posted by stardancer

I don't think this is necessarily true. ALL the time I get patrons asking me if dance is how I make my living and what else I do for work.

The fact that they are curious doesn't mean they won't be disappointed when you tell them you're a computer systems analyst.

People ask me all the time too and I just honestly tell them that I'd prefer not to say because it ruins the mystique. I will acknowledge that I have another day job and that's it. Then I tell them that I really hang out in the harem all day smoking a hookah pipe and having my nails done and we have a good laugh.