Thread: What should I ask for?

I just started a new weekly gig at a lounge near my house. I got the owner to agree to $100 for a 20 minute set, once a week. Now he would like to do two sets of 10 minutes each instead.

The owner is actually a very nice guy and I honestly don't think he sees any difference between one 20 minute set and two 10 minute sets. So, I'll need to point out the "waiting around" factor, plus the costume change factor, and the music preparation factor, etc.

What should I ask for if I do two sets? The sets will only be about 20-30 minutes apart.

I'd (very briefly) mention that the minutes of performance that he sees are the tip of an iceberg that includes a ton of preparation for the show -- selecting music, burning CDs, preparing costumes, doing hair and makeup, etc. The price for a 10 minute show would be barely less than the price for a 20 minute show.

Then I'd point out that he's actually tripling the amount of time you'll be onsite and doubling your costume requirement.

I'd ask for $180. Depending on how YOU feel about it and what the going rates are in your area, you might be willing to settle for a little less (no lower than $160, maybe?) or it might be best to leave things at a single set.

A negotiating tip I was taught a long time ago -- never give anything up without asking for something in return.

So maybe don't agree to a lower price unless he agrees that a costume change isn't necessary? Or adds dinner to go, if you're not already getting that.

Yep, I agree with Lauren. If you're doing 2 sets, you're doing 2 sets. Same amount of effort goes into it whether you're doing 10 or 20 minutes a pop. I'd stand firm by the original fee, or maybe drop to $180 with some sort of give-and-take on his part.

If you do go for two sets, definitely negotiate somewhere. I'd nix the costume change or maybe ask that he hang up some colorful promotional materials in the window to entice people to stick around for the whole "evening of bellydance." Because clearly, by spacing the entertainment out, he's concerned with either 1. drawing in more traffic throughout the night and/or 2. getting people to stick around and order more drinks (obviously, restaurant owners make most of their profits on such high-margin items as booze). Increased promotional stuff will benefit you AND him, and will also appeal to his logic as a business owner.

I do this sort of thing in radio sales all the time: recently, I had a client (a local bar) who had a bug up his ass to move his Live Wigout to April because he was afraid he'd get snowed in. There was money against this, as live broadcasts entail a number of hard costs and can't easily be rescheduled. So I came back to him with the ultimate proposition: we'll bring Wiggy to do his thing at your bar in April if you'll let me create a Super Bowl promotion and a St. Paddy's Day party for you, and commit to those dates. The guy handed me a big fat check ($6,000, from which I earn my meager commission), is super stoked to get even more publicity through his favorite radio station, and is back to being my best buddy-client again.

Moral of the story? Never underestimate the power of negotiation. If you can reconfigure the scenario so it's mutually beneficial, this guy will be hard-pressed to say no.

Good luck!

Yes, he's definitely doing this to keep people there longer - I packed the place last weekend with people who were there to see me, and they all left pretty much immediately after my show!

I will email him now and see what he says.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Yes, he's definitely doing this to keep people there longer - I packed the place last weekend with people who were there to see me, and they all left pretty much immediately after my show!

I will email him now and see what he says.

Great! That is, after all, the Cardinal Rule of dealing with restaurant and bar owners. Always, always, ALWAYS remind them of your capabilities to increase traffic to their venues. In the end, that matters far more than what a great dancer you are, or even how much prep time goes into the average gig. If you can create dramatic results that impact their bottom line, you can have them eating out of your hand.

I know whenever my bar and restaurant clients give me any sort of crap at work, I'll say something to the effect of: "Remember that 5-year anniversary promotion we did in October? You got TONS of new customers out of that, didn't you? Wouldn't it be a shame to lose all that great momentum we created? Let's put our heads together and work this out."

Sometimes, they grumble. But they never go to the radio station down the street.

Always be confident in your ability to help business owners, and never be afraid to reference this if they're being tricky.

I agree. I actually run ads in the free sections of our paper's event calendars on nights I dance. I have no idea if it increases traffic...but I can point it out & say "see what i do for you?" and use that for further negotiation.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

I agree. I actually run ads in the free sections of our paper's event calendars on nights I dance. I have no idea if it increases traffic...but I can point it out & say "see what i do for you?" and use that for further negotiation.

Yep, that too. Plus, any social media you use, such as MySpace, Facebook, or local community calendars.

A lot of the time, BDers place themselves in the position of valuable promotional partners, which is really cool. This should always be leveraged and is also a great way to set yourself apart from Suzy Nippletassels down the street.

Really, if you can impact somebody's bottom line, you have no reason on earth to get stiffed. Nor does anybody have a leg to stand on if they want to pay you in shawarma. Go team! Rah, rah! :soapbox:

OK. No more motivational emoticons, I promise.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

in.

Moral of the story? Never underestimate the power of negotiation.

Yup. Also important to not get too vested in a particular outcome. We don't always have to counter with an offer.

Sometimes people are just wondering 'Hey, I wonder if we can do X' or 'I wonder what X would cost.' Sometimes the answer is encouraging, sometimes they think 'Oh, well, never mind then.' In the business world, that doesn't hurt your relationship.