Thread: 'maybe a little longer if they're having fun?'

I'm sure this is a totally noob question, but it's never come up for me before!

So, I'm asking talking to a restaurant owner -- who works with loads of dancers & knows what she's doing.

When I ask her how long she'd like my set to be, she says XX minutes, 'maybe a little longer if they're having fun.' ..g.:

How do I burn THAT CD????..c::

(I've done this exact thing for parties, but there I had my own person controlling the boombox & could set up cues to let them know whether to skip track 4 or whatever...)

I set up fake exit songs on my cd. Short little diddys that allow me to exit if I want to or stay on stage and dance it out for the next song. It doesn't stop the cd from going on the next song, but that's ok, I think it's better than silence where there once was booming arabic pop. The owners usually turn it down and let the rest of the cd play out until I'm ready to collect it and leave.

I choose my exit song as an 'extra' song in case I want to do another song. Something like Mashaal, whcih has a great fast intro that you could use to exit, but after a minute or two the song changes and you could stay and dance without looking awkward. you do ned another exit ong after that one, ofcourse.

those are really good suggestions!

If I'ved used only part of a track for the beledi portion and there's more of it that kind of echoes that part but is not exactly the same, I add it on to the end -- then it can go either way -- either finishes off the routine, or returns to the energy of the first part. Signed, the "evil one......"

Ah...well at what rate of pay comes extended fun for others.....

Originally Posted by trakgrl99

I set up fake exit songs on my cd.

I do the same thing as trakgrll99. I also like mekyria's suggestion of Mashaal as an exit piece. I haven't used that before , but it's a great pick.

For $$, I charge by the show, not be the minute. "classic package" Show ranges from approx 20-45 minutes. So if I quoted 20 min, and dance a few extra songs, it's already built in to the overhead, no worries. Also, I explain this on the phone with the client, that the show length will be minimum XX minutes, yet may go up until XX minutes, **at the DANCER's discretion**
It's also written into the contract.

I explain to them on the phone that a lot of times people will spring up and dance with me at the last possible moment, and I tack on extra music at the end, to spare the guests any embarrassment of being stuck out there to sudden total silence. Everyoen I ever explained that to, got my point and thanked me.

There is nothing worse however than a party that's really dead, and you stuck out there to a neverending track with no graceful way to conclude and escape!

DOH! just realized, Lauren is asking about restaurants. Erm. That's a bit different, because the pay is usually so much lower, it's not as easy to build the occasional long show into your overhead & have it average out over time.
Plus, ya know. Restaurants. Notorious for being given an inch & taking a mile.

Tell the owner that you'll burn CD's with fake exits, but that your rate is charged per song, lol! Or better yet, run a taxi meter and charge by the shimmy..

Thank you all so much -- lots of great ideas I hadn't thought of!

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Ah...well at what rate of pay comes extended fun for others.....

Good point!

Originally Posted by Lotus

Tell the owner that you'll burn CD's with fake exits, but that your rate is charged per song, lol! Or better yet, run a taxi meter and charge by the shimmy..

..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

I assume you probably already have at least 1 pop song at the end when you get them up to dance. You could probably add a couple more (this would add about 7-10 minutes to your set). If they are already having fun, pop songs are great, you can keep dancing with them, perhaps collect more tips :)

If you are done, you just leave at end of one of the song (take a bow first, thank the audience for being great and all that good stuff) then the cd-handler/ owner / waiter will see that you are done, and cn turn off the music. If not, the music keeps going, it's ok. I've done it.

I normally don't dance longer, my restaurant sets are 25-30 minutes priced exactly for that. Afterwards I normlly need to rush out to another restaurant or party, so I don't want the owenrs to expect this.

All the above suggestions are great, though!! Better than mine :)

Marianna

If I went on the "people are having fun" claim, I would be dancing all night half the time. I have found if you give restaurants an inch they will take a mile (more often than not). I would stick to my show is X minutes long. If people look like they are having fun then get them up to dance with you earlier in the set. The patrons will feel the same if you end your set at 20 as they will at 25 min. I think you will just leave yourself open to getting taken advantage of. I hope that all makes sense. I'm in a crabby mood the last few days and my brain doesn't seem to want to work properly.

I'm also curious why it is that if there is barely a crowd at a restaurant and the people are giving you the energy sucking black hole feedback, the owners are rarely ok with you cutting your show after 10 min but they are all gung ho about a performer dancer longer than agreed upon. Sorry...my crabby mood is showing again.... lol! I think I need a vacation.

Originally Posted by stardancer

I'm also curious why it is that if there is barely a crowd at a restaurant and the people are giving you the energy sucking black hole feedback, the owners are rarely ok with you cutting your show after 10 min but they are all gung ho about a performer dancer longer than agreed upon. Sorry...my crabby mood is showing again.... lol! I think I need a vacation.

Because they want "more bang for their buck" so to speak. They don't understand the concepts of "quality over quantity" or "leave 'em wanting more".

Nothings worse than watching a belly dancer go on and on when people have already started to peer at their watches 10 minutes in.

I make my restaurant show CDs with the "audience participation" song in the middle... it's really obvious when they are supposed to sit down as a cane, sword or tabla solo will come on after. Restaurants already pay so little for our time and some don't even like paying what they do... if they want me to do extra they can ask and they can pay more. Period.

When a show is supposed to be (for example) 20-25 minutes and a dancer comes in and does 30 minutes for the same money, it is a form of undercutting. It has that same rippling effect- all of a sudden ALL the dancers have to do 30 minutes (even in a dead restaurant), then other owners hear about etc etc.

i don't dance longer than 30 minutes. 22-30 usually. i recently started asking a wait person to help me by restarting my music if i was still on the floor. this works for me. when my music ends, it restarts, and i find a way to go make an exit. before that i was sometimes left with no music and making a hasty thank you thank you exit. and this feels like a more natural exit. if i have someone up dancing (it happens naturally even in songs i don't plan it for), and my music ends, it kinda sucks. that's probably what they want. you can explain that you will need them to restart the music and they get up to 3-5 minutes max at that point. that's what i do. the owner still complained one night saying "that's all? you are done?" and i said yes all 25 minutes! with a smile. good luck!

OMG, I recently had someone take complete advantage of the whole "maybe a little longer if people are having fun" thing. I was performing for the first time at a ME restaurant, and the owner asked how long my set was. I told him 20 minutes. "Oh no that's too short, it has to be 30 mins, maybe a little longer if people are getting up and dancing," says the owner. I agree to that because 30 minutes is a normal set length for a lot of dancers and I feel confident I can extend my performance without too much trouble. Also the owner doesn't want me to dance to my own music, he wants me to dance to his Arabic pop DJ. And he wants me to make my entrance and exit when he does a big announcement ("Ladies and gentlemen, a round of applause for the fabulous belly dancer D.") and he impresses on me that I MUST NOT leave the floor until he makes this announcement.

So I'm dancing and 30 minutes go by, then 40, then 50 - 1 HOUR!!! It's hard for me to tell how much time has passed because there's no clock, I'm not dancing my regular set, and I know that I'm supposed to be dancing a bit longer than I usually do anyway. People are having fun and keep getting up to dance with me. But as song after song goes by and I become bathed in sweat, it becomes clear that far more than 30 minutes "plus a little extra" has passed. I keep dancing over to the DJ booth and giving the owner meaningful looks but he still refuses to make his bloody announcement, so I finally make a quick curtsy on my own and exit. Which is when I find out how long I've actually been dancing!!! ,m:: He comes backstage to pay me and mentions nothing about the 1-hour set, makes a few criticisms of my dancing then inquires about my future availability!!!! I couldn't believe he had the gall to criticize my dancing when I IMPROVISED for an HOUR to music I had never heard before. I practically sweated through my whole costume.

Next time I am in this sort of situation I will: A) Bear in mind that some people will take a mile if you give them an inch; B) Communicate a specific limit to the client regarding "if people are having fun"; C) Figure out some way to keep time if I am not dancing to my own music. Maybe sew a clock face into my gauntlets or something!

Oh, I'd be BURNING up too! What a jerk.

Originally Posted by deelight

OMG, I recently had someone take complete advantage of the whole "maybe a little longer if people are having fun" thing. I was performing for the first time at a ME restaurant

I'm curious. Are there other dancers at this restaraunt? Did you talk to them or go to scope out a show before your performance?

I had never been there before - I was referred for this gig the day before by another ME restaurant owner I'd worked for in the past. It seemed the house dancer had quit (I didn't inquire deeply) - he was asking me if I knew of other dancers as well that could be put into his lineup. But yeah, it would definitely be interesting to compare notes with someone else who has worked there recently.

Originally Posted by deelight

I couldn't believe he had the gall to criticize my dancing when I IMPROVISED for an HOUR to music I had never heard before. I practically sweated through my whole costume.

Next time I am in this sort of situation I will: A) Bear in mind that some people will take a mile if you give them an inch; B) Communicate a specific limit to the client regarding "if people are having fun"; C) Figure out some way to keep time if I am not dancing to my own music. Maybe sew a clock face into my gauntlets or something!

That would be funny, checking your watch as you dance!

What is this guy, a control freak? He makes you dance to his music, telling you you can't end until he says so, then when he realizes you've reached your limit with him he tries to make sure you won't ask for more money by telling you your show is less than adequate!!!! Don't walk but run from this place ... there's a reason the other dancer quit!

Originally Posted by deelight

I had never been there before - I was referred for this gig the day before by another ME restaurant owner I'd worked for in the past. It seemed the house dancer had quit (I didn't inquire deeply) - he was asking me if I knew of other dancers as well that could be put into his lineup. But yeah, it would definitely be interesting to compare notes with someone else who has worked there recently.

Dee, can you PM me with the name of this place and the owner?

you would have to pay me a lot more to dance under those terms. i bring my cd. if the dj wants to play my cd and then play his favorite pop song fine, but i would not dance to just a dj for who knows how long at the mercy of mr mc for less the $125 (party rate). might sound ridiculous but those night clubs don't pay enough for that kind of bs...i know my cd is 25-30 minutes and that's how i time my dance. i hope you got good tips!

Originally Posted by deelight

OMG, I recently had someone take complete advantage of the whole "maybe a little longer if people are having fun" thing...snip

keeping you on the floor for an hour when you agreed on 30 minutes? What was this guy thinking?!?

For a restaurant performance I burn a cd with a 10-15 minute set. If it's a slow night, I stop after the third son (app. 10 minutes). If there are a lot of people and not everyone had the chance to 'see the dancer' I go for the full 15 minutes. I agreed with the restaurant on a basic rate: most of the time the restaurant is half-full and I dance a bit less then I expected, other times I dance a bit longer. I spend just as much time in total so it's worth it to me.

Otherwise, don't let people take advantage of you! Also famous are weddings where they'd like you to stay 'as a guest' with the intention of dragging you on the dancefloor and get the party started. Which is exactly what you did when you were in costume and dancing your ass off and being paid.

At the restaurants where I work as a regular, I never dance more than 15-20 minutes anymore; sometimes only 10 minutes. At a couple places where I sub they want a dancer to do 25-30 min. sets, and I'll always burn a CD for 25 min. If customers aren't tipping and/or things are dead, I usually choose my last song/songs in such a way so that I can gracefully bow a few times and end the set. So far, nobody has complained, except at one place where the owner wanted me to keep going and started playing his own CD. The customers were dancing w/ me for about one extra song, and that was it - nobody was tipping at all...I ended things about 1/3 of the way through the second song. The owner didn't say anything negative, but he's never paid well, and I haven't gone back - the only way I would go back is to help another desperate dancer, not necessarily to help him.

Same goes for the "waiting game"....I set a time limit now for waiting to do "a last set" - you know - waiting around for the possibility of more customers to come in , etc. After my "waiting period" (whatever I feel like that night - but never more than 20-25 min), I put my cover-up on, grab my stuff, strut right on up to whoever's in charge with a big smile, and say, "Thanks! Well, I'm off to a party now" (whether there really is a party or not), and collect my (ha ha) big bucks for the night. I've never gotten a complaint...and if I did, oh well.

wow, restaurant sets are getting shorter! i thought my 22-25 min sets were on the short side. i don't think anyone here would like us doing a 10 minute set! wouldn't that be great though. ,r:;

Originally Posted by jawahir

wow, restaurant sets are getting shorter! i thought my 22-25 min sets were on the short side. i don't think anyone here would like us doing a 10 minute set! wouldn't that be great though. ,r:;

My sets are typically between 25-30 minutes.

well, we're an ocean apart! There are a lot more differene, for instance dancers rarely get tipped over here (unless you're dancing in one of the illegal nightclubs, but then you're supposed to 'entertain the customers' and preferably in a horizontal position). Most restaurants are tiny too, so 10-15 minutes is usually enough.

Originally Posted by mekyria

well, we're an ocean apart! There are a lot more differene, for instance dancers rarely get tipped over here (unless you're dancing in one of the illegal nightclubs, but then you're supposed to 'entertain the customers' and preferably in a horizontal position). Most restaurants are tiny too, so 10-15 minutes is usually enough.

interesting, where are you located? that's definitely different!

I'm in the Netherlands. Tipping is uncommon because our smallest bill is 5 euro (7-8 USD) and a coin shower hurts too much ..l;, That and Dutch people are not used to tipping the entertainment. Tipping the staff at the restaurant is common, tipping the musician or dancer isn't.