Spin-off from Shira's "Restaurant Schedulers" thread

[casbahdance]

Although this is a spin-off thread, the topic isn't receiving pay for being the scheduler at a restaurant, it's about student/troupe members as dancers. Reading that thread got me to thinking . . .

A few posters from that thread referenced various schools/teachers who fill restaurant gigs with their students and/or members of their troupes.

Soooo . . . if teachers are using students to fill dancer positions at these restaurants, then what is quality of dancing at these establishments?

Are these all advanced dancers who just need to get their feet wet dancing for the GP to continue their dance education or ready-to-go-pros who need/want more GP audience experience? Are these already-pros who dance together?

Deborah

[zamora]

i only use "students", that have become dancers and work with my agency.i NEVER, no even for free, send a non pro out.
most of my clients pick who they feel will blend with their crowd.

[zamora]

and yes, we do all work together in many diff combos for diff gigs.we also do faire together
gotta go coach!

[SamiraShuruk]

I have seen "student quality" work at some of these establishments, which I have been taught sheds a poor light on the dance. We don't want the gp to think "students" are the "professionals".
I have seen some however presented as "student salons" or something like that. I think this is appropriate in terms of presentation to the public. Although the question remains- are they getting paid? Is this undercutting and thus effecting the community? Is this also creating a false impression for those students; that they are "ready" to be out there?

[SandraDances]

What I have done in the past is use a really good student who I was positive was ready to go pro as a sub or for a smaller show, like a lunch party. I didn't always get feedback, but when I did, it was useful. I only did this at "friendly" venues.

So, I only used advanced students who were physically, mentally, and "costumely" prepared. If the owner didn't like them, I didn't ask them back. Usually this was because of age or weight and this always came as a surprise to me because I had asked them about that ahead of time.

[casbahdance]

I have seen "student quality" work at some of these establishments, which I have been taught sheds a poor light on the dance. We don't want the gp to think "students" are the "professionals".
I have seen some however presented as "student salons" or something like that. I think this is appropriate in terms of presentation to the public. Although the question remains- are they getting paid? Is this undercutting and thus effecting the community? Is this also creating a false impression for those students; that they are "ready" to be out there?

I think that was the concern that popped into my head while reading the original thread.

Deborah

[casbahdance]

i only use "students", that have become dancers and work with my agency.i NEVER, no even for free, send a non pro out.
most of my clients pick who they feel will blend with their crowd.

I know you do it right, Cory!

Deborah

[Lauren_]

It depends on the standards of the group leader, doesn't it? Some use only pro-level dancers, but those associated with their studio (as continuing students or teachers).

I didn't mean to imply when I said 'students' that beginners were being put in restaurants necessarily. Pros are someone's student, too.

Until very recently, it was rare for a dancer NOT to be associated with a troupe in my area, and almost impossible for a 'free agent' to get a restaurant night unless she was very friendly with a troupe.

But we all have different standards, don't we? One teacher's idea of a budding pro ready to cut her teeth on her first restaurant gig is another teacher's 6-week wonder nightmare.

[zamora]

wow deborah, thank you !

[SamiraShuruk]

I think that was the concern that popped into my head while reading the original thread.

Deborah

I know you do it right, Cory!

Deborah

...and yes, the situations I mentioned above (that do harm to the perception of the dance) DO happen. However, we are fortunate to have wonderful people (such as Cory) who have high standards and have gigs that are perfect venues for their blossoming professionals who ARE ready to "get out there". I think it's actually a wonderful way to be "guided" when newer- like having a mentor.

[laura 2]

There is a restaurant here where most of the dancers are students of one teacher, who also performs there. They are all advanced students and are members of her professional troupe, so the quality of dancing and costuming is definitely pro level.

The main con I can see of this arrangement is that because they are all from the same teacher/troupe, they have a pretty specific dance style and aesthetic appearance, and sometimes I prefer to see a little more variety.

[casbahdance]

1) It depends on the standards of the group leader, doesn't it? Some use only pro-level dancers, but those associated with their studio (as continuing students or teachers).

2) I didn't mean to imply when I said 'students' that beginners were being put in restaurants necessarily. Pros are someone's student, too.

3) Until very recently, it was rare for a dancer NOT to be associated with a troupe in my area, and almost impossible for a 'free agent' to get a restaurant night unless she was very friendly with a troupe.

4) But we all have different standards, don't we? One teacher's idea of a budding pro ready to cut her teeth on her first restaurant gig is another teacher's 6-week wonder nightmare.

Paragraphs 1 and 4: Yes, it does depend very much on the standards of the leader. See comment under paragraph 2, below.

Paragraph 2: Understood; I guess I was just envisioning a few situations with which I am familiar and the sight wasn't pretty . . .

Paragraph 3: I guess that's just one of the differences between your area, Lauren (St. Louis, Missouri) and mine (greater Los Angeles). Although I'm sure the troupe-members-as-the-only-dancers model exists here, it's something with which I've not had much experience. Friends of course, will ask friends to sub for them because it's (usually!) safe to do so, but otherwise it seems to be more free agent around here.

I'm glad to know that, so far, our posters have mostly positive (or more or less neutral) experiences with this model!

Deborah

[Jessani]

I do not have a student troupe. I do fill most of the nights at the restaurant with dancers from my professional troupe. Its too bad that the term "troupe" now has the invisible adjective "student" in front of it, leading to assumptions or misconceptions about the quality of dancing & level of training. Outside of the BD world I use the term "dance company" because that's really what we are, however in the BD world it seems like troupe is the term most associated with an organized group of dancers.

[SamiraShuruk]

I'm glad to know that, so far, our posters have mostly positive (or more or less neutral) experiences with this model!
Deborah

Honestly what I have seen directly is not the most ideal model of this situation, and have heard nightmares from the other coast ("the one and only authentic teacher in America" for example) ...BUT I know that positive examples DO exist and wanted to be sure to post about that.

[Lauren_]

Its too bad that the term "troupe" now has the invisible adjective "student" in front of it, leading to assumptions or misconceptions about the quality of dancing & level of training.

I agree. I think the majority of troupes in bellydance ARE student groups, there are so few really pro troupes (and there are a few troupes that call themselves pro but really aren't).

I try to call my student group a 'repertory class' but sometimes slip up and say troupe because it's simpler.

[casbahdance]

I do not have a student troupe. I do fill most of the nights at the restaurant with dancers from my professional troupe. Its too bad that the term "troupe" now has the invisible adjective "student" in front of it, leading to assumptions or misconceptions about the quality of dancing & level of training. Outside of the BD world I use the term "dance company" because that's really what we are, however in the BD world it seems like troupe is the term most associated with an organized group of dancers.

It's so cool, naystrance, that you have a "pro troupe" -- I was thinking that I'd read that on the boards before. I've been member of one, myself, and really enjoyed of it!

I agree that the word "troupe" often (probably even usually) has, to quote nayastrance, "the invisible adjective 'student' in from of it, leading to assumptions or misconceptions about the quality of dancing and level of training." For this reason, I prefer the title "dance company" when describing a professional group of dancers. And then you get the title of "pro troupe" to describe something that definitely does not meet the standard. Shades of the soloist-BD world to me . . .

Deborah

[Jessani]

It's so cool, naystrance, that you have a "pro troupe" -- I was thinking that I'd read that on the boards before. I've been member of one, myself, and really enjoyed of it!

I agree that the word "troupe" often (probably even usually) has, to quote nayastrance, "the invisible adjective 'student' in from of it, leading to assumptions or misconceptions about the quality of dancing and level of training." For this reason, I prefer the title "dance company" when describing a professional group of dancers. And then you get the title of "pro troupe" to describe something that definitely does not meet the standard. Shades of the soloist-BD world to me . . .

Deborah

I think outside of the BD-world the term "troupe" usually conjures up images of girl scouts & campfires...l;,

[Suzana]

We officially call ourselves a company. It's hard not to say "troupe" in casual conversation, but it does tend to conjure up images of jugglers and traveling players for me.

[Samira_dncr]

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,

I think outside of the BD-world the term "troupe" usually conjures up images of girl scouts & campfires...l;,