Thread: Should I make them pay me?

OK, that thread title is sure to get a lot of people to read! So I have three 11th graders (students of mine) who want me to perform for International Day at their school. I would have to take off of work (vacation or comp time).

Anyway, one of the students wrote me today and said that the school has no budget for me, but her and her two other friends would pitch in to pay me. I feel bad because they are highschoolers, yet I imagine their parents are paying--they do go to one of the fanciest private schools in town. IDK, it seems weird to have these young girls pay me to dance at their school's function.

What's the rule of thumb on issues like this? Conventional wisdom? I don't really want to do it for free if I have to take off work. Is that terrible? Actually, I don't ever really dance for free unless it is a hafla.

My first question would be....Did they get approval from the school already for you to perform there? I don't think it would be fair to make 11th graders pay you. imo

I'm curious what other performers they have on the schedule that are going to perform for free during the work day. (Surprised this isn't an evening or Saturday event, too.) There should be an adult sponsor involved - teacher, admin, etc. I would get in touch with him/her directly because he/she may have no idea that the girls are offering to pay you out of their own pockets and I'm sure that could be a very weird situation.

Originally Posted by kiyaana

I'm curious what other performers they have on the schedule that are going to perform for free during the work day. (Surprised this isn't an evening or Saturday event, too.) There should be an adult sponsor involved - teacher, admin, etc. I would get in touch with him/her directly because he/she may have no idea that the girls are offering to pay you out of their own pockets and I'm sure that could be a very weird situation.

I agree. Regardless of whether or not you decide to perform without pay, you need to make sure the school is 100% behind your performing there. I was hired to dance at a pep rally last month, and my contact was a high school student. However, I told her that since I could not legally enter into a contract with a minor (I don't do a gig without a contract in place), she would need to have the contract co-signed by an adviser or other representative of the school.

It would really suck to take the day off, show up that day and then have the principal or another administrator ask you to leave before you even get to perform.

It happened something similar to me and I didn't charge anything. I danced for my highschool students at their graduation ball...

They go to the fanciest private school in town, but the school has no budget for you?

Sounds like maybe the school has already told them 'No' & that was how they told the girls - 'Sorry, we don't have it in our budget'. And they may not if they've already budgeted for other entertainment & activities. I wouldn't accept payment from 11th graders - if their parents are paying for it then I'd enter into a contract with them, not the students, but first thing would be sorting out the school issue.

If you just don't want to do it, you could tell the girls you'd like to, but you have a contact for every performance (for tax purposes say) used even for students, friends and family, but since they're minors legally they can't enter into a contract. Plus the question of whether the school would allow you there to participate in their already scheduled festivities/program if you're not officially sanctioned by the school.

i've danced for high school events and they have always paid.
part of education is learning how things work in the real world. so don't be afraid to kindly explain to the girls that they must pay for professional entertainment.

and yes, you must clear it with the school first. often you can't even enter the campus without prior permission.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

and yes, you must clear it with the school first. often you can't even enter the campus without prior permission.

That's true - I had to stop at the office and slap a sticker that read VISITOR on my cover up for the pep rally.

If you are in any mind to consider performing at this school event, you need to speak to the school. Full Stop. Not with the 11th graders. It's possible that the school does have budgetary reasons for not booking you. Swanky schools are being hit by the financial situation as much as any other business. It's also possible that they don't want to create a situation for themselves where some participants in their event are being paid and others not. It's also possible that there are other reasons why they don't want you to perform there. Also, your students may have misunderstood the nature of the event, or what the school's aims for the event may be, or the school's stance on paying their participants.

Once you've spoken to the school, there may be a number of different outcomes:
1. The school says, yes we'd love you to perform and we're happy to pay you. Everybody wins.
2. The school says, yes we'd love you to perform, but we're not going to pay you. You decide you want to do the performance and accept the students' offer to pay you instead. This option is legally fraught. Contractually, who are you dealing with? The school? They haven't agreed to pay you. The students? Minors, not legally sue-able if they were to default. The students' parents? You aren't providing *them* with any service, so what's the contract? They could so easily dodge out of payment, and you wouldn't have a legally valid contract with anyone. And I might be mistaken, but didn't you once post along the lines of "Oh bother, I wish I'd got a contract signed, because someone's wheedled out of paying me"? If you've been bitten in the backside like that before, then you know you need to make sure you have a watertight contract. You'd need to write a special three-way contract.
3. The school says, yes we'd love you to perform, but we're not going to pay you. You decide you want to do the performance and you're willing to not get paid for it. The school and your students are no doubt very grateful, and you get a nice warm glow inside from doing a good thing.
4. The school says, yes we'd love you to perform, but we're not going to pay you. You decide you don't want the performance opportunity badly enough to be willing to do it free, so you say thanks but no thanks.
5. The school says, thanks for offering, but actually we don't want your performance. Situation creates its own resolution!

My personal view: I couldn't accept payment from the students. It would feel morally/ethically wrong to me, I can't explain why. So I'd tell them, I'm going to speak to the school. If I can persuade the school to pay me then I'll do it, but if not, then I can't take your money (not even your parents' money!) and I can't justify taking a day off work for this, so I won't be able to take part. I'm constantly turning work down because it's during the daytime.

Good Question.

My daughter graduated from a private high school last year, they asked if I would dance for Jessica's dance class (a teacher request) and "donate" my time. I suggested I would be happy to IF I got parent-volunteer hours-credit for it. It was definately worth it to this single mom to dance for them and then get 6 hours of credit! (it beats working in the book store or stuffing envelopes any day)

On the other hand, I've been asked to dance at those auction-theme-dinner-fundraising events (where a group of families get together and host a dinner that people bid on to make money for the school?) some of them are quite elaborate..............yeah, I typically charge my regular fee for those. I learned my lesson after someone asked me to give them a discount because they were trying to raise money, then I show up at their house, they've got a living room you could land a plane in, and a dining room they had remodeled in a full-on Moroccan theme just for the event.............c:: They were complaining that their budget was "so small this year......." uh, yeah, define small???

Lastly, I've done grad-night, junior prom, themed events; in some cases I've been contacted initially by a student, but the parents always have the last say.............and the cash

Originally Posted by DancingRuya

They go to the fanciest private school in town, but the school has no budget for you?

Just for the record, even some fancy private schools have money issues. Oftentimes the tuition barely covers staff salaries and all other expenses have to be covered via fundraising. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. If this show is being done by an student club, they may only have a few hundred dollars for the year for activities.

I'm guessing this is for a school assembly. When clubs try to do assemblies outside of school hours, they get very little attendance.

As for dancing there. Yes, please find an adult at the school and talk to them. Students are notorious for making plans and telling club advisors and teachers and then being shocked when things don't work out.

It's awesome that they're willing to pay you. I would have no problem doing a school event for free for a student club, provided I would also be able to give a little talk or have a formal introduction that was educational. It's a great way to reach out to students and teach. If it's an event designed to make money - auctions, prom, etc, then charge.

Good luck!

Thanks everyone for their input. For clarification, the girls gave me the contact info for the advisor at school. The one who is in charge of the event. The day is kind of like a series of small assemblies where students represent a culture or something.

Anyway, if it wasn't a workday I would seriously consider doing it for free, but I just don't think it is worth my time. And thanks for telling me you can't enter into a contract with minors. I should've known! D'oh!

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

i've danced for high school events and they have always paid.
part of education is learning how things work in the real world. so don't be afraid to kindly explain to the girls that they must pay for professional entertainment.
and yes, you must clear it with the school first. often you can't even enter the campus without prior permission.

I've always been paid by school events- everything from Montessouri schools through high schools and universities. I don't usually charge my top dollar - as cultural education and appreciation is very important to me, but I do charge above the local "minimum".

Something like this happened to me. I was contacted by the Dad who used to own a club and wanted to bring a belly dancer to perform at his daughter's high school International Day. They cleared it with the school, I wore a more conservative look, and he paid me as if for a party. The again, they had $$.

In your situation, if the school is ok with it and the girls are regular students of yours, and you have a good vibe with them, I could see doing it for free. But if you really don't think it's worth it because you have to take off work, and you are trying to establish yourself as a professional, taking a small gratuity is appropriate. As a general rule for "community functions" that are ostensibly "education" based (like International fairs) I charge a reduced rate anyway.

Good luck. Should be fun.

Agree with all the above about parental and school guidance/permission.

One thing I would ask the girls who want to hire you is would it make them happy for them to pay you? Sometimes there is that doing the big person things that builds self esteem. Doesn't mean they have to pay top dollar, I would settle for their weekly allowance if they get one. probably wouldn't be more than ten dollars if the have one.

And it could be announced to the school before or after you perform that the entertainment was provided by the girls. That might give them the coool factor. Provided your performance is awesome.....

"Top dollar"? ..l;, You mean "bottom dollar"? ..l;,
I must say the same about euro, at this point of the crisis...

Originally Posted by ANA_bellydancer

"Top dollar"? ..l;, You mean "bottom dollar"? ..l;,
I must say the same about euro, at this point of the crisis...

Ana I've missed you!

Originally Posted by ANA_bellydancer

"Top dollar"? ..l;, You mean "bottom dollar"? ..l;,
I must say the same about euro, at this point of the crisis...

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,They pay top dollar to get my bottom to shake. ..g.: even in this financial crisis.

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

Thanks everyone for their input. For clarification, the girls gave me the contact info for the advisor at school. The one who is in charge of the event. The day is kind of like a series of small assemblies where students represent a culture or something.

So, is this a situation where most of the presentations are actually being given by students, rather than professional performers?

I know that a few of the schools in my district have "international days" and the presentations are usually either performances by the students demonstrating dance or music or literature from a particular culture, or parents doing the same.

If it's that situation, would it be possible to choreograph a piece for your students to demonstrate themselves? I'm not sure what their skill level is, but I'm imagining you could charge for the choreography service or private lessons and then they would perform for their classmates themselves. That way, you're being paid for your time and ME dance can still be represented.

I'm not doing this to suggest undercutting other performers, but if the rest of the performers are also students this might be more in line with what the event is about. A dance-teacher friend of mine has done similar arrangements for students to perform in school talent/variety shows, international nights, etc.

Originally Posted by rachelw

So, is this a situation where most of the presentations are actually being given by students, rather than professional performers?

I know that a few of the schools in my district have "international days" and the presentations are usually either performances by the students demonstrating dance or music or literature from a particular culture, or parents doing the same.

If it's that situation, would it be possible to choreograph a piece for your students to demonstrate themselves? I'm not sure what their skill level is, but I'm imagining you could charge for the choreography service or private lessons and then they would perform for their classmates themselves. That way, you're being paid for your time and ME dance can still be represented.

I'm not doing this to suggest undercutting other performers, but if the rest of the performers are also students this might be more in line with what the event is about. A dance-teacher friend of mine has done similar arrangements for students to perform in school talent/variety shows, international nights, etc.

Yeah, I offered to do that because that would work best for me in terms of time. I gave them a price for that. They really want to show me off though. I am flattered! ..l;,

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,They pay top dollar to get my bottom to shake. ..g.: even in this financial crisis.

..l;,

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

Ana I've missed you!

Hi, Angela! ,r:; I'm here!