Thread: Certifications

Hi all,

I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention; I posted about it on another thread but I thought it was relevant enough to have its own.

Recently I was looking into other studios and one was a gym with fitness-related classes. I was told they did not need a dance instructor as the gym owner's sister was going to be 'certified' as a bellydancer. I asked how long the sister had been dancing; the gym owner said she never had but was going to get 'certified'.

So this is a problem; people are now thinking that they only need to get 'certified' as a dancer/dance instructor, and that is better or equivalent to a dancer that's had ten years of training. I'm wondering if teacher cert programs have ways of weeding out this kind of thing? We have enough undercutting to deal with in the general dance community already without this issue.

Again I wonder if ballet has these problems.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Hi all,

I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention; I posted about it on another thread but I thought it was relevant enough to have its own.

Recently I was looking into other studios and one was a gym with fitness-related classes. I was told they did not need a dance instructor as the gym owner's sister was going to be 'certified' as a bellydancer. I asked how long the sister had been dancing; the gym owner said she never had but was going to get 'certified'.

So this is a problem; people are now thinking that they only need to get 'certified' as a dancer/dance instructor, and that is better or equivalent to a dancer that's had ten years of training. I'm wondering if teacher cert programs have ways of weeding out this kind of thing? We have enough undercutting to deal with in the general dance community already without this issue.

Again I wonder if ballet has these problems.

I am curious - did they mention what kind of certification? There are only a few official teaching certifications for belly dance and those are specific to certain styles or schools of dance. I can say for sure that if they decide to go for Suhaila, FCBD, or GC teacher certification she will have a long road ahead of her if she isn't already a dancer.

Originally Posted by mahsati

I am curious - did they mention what kind of certification? There are only a few official teaching certifications for belly dance and those are specific to certain styles or schools of dance. I can say for sure that if they decide to go for Suhaila, FCBD, or GC teacher certification she will have a long road ahead of her if she isn't already a dancer.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. All the BD teacher certification programs I know of require years of study by people serious about dancing and teaching. The dancers who run these programs are very serious about their art and their particular style. I suppose there could be some fly-by-night BD "certification" program out there, but I'm not aware of one.

Ballet isn't completely free of this kind of thing, but unfortunately it generally affects children more than adults. Practically every little town in America has a Little Miss Suzy TuTu's School of Dance run by a lady who took ballet 20 years ago and who teaches little girls to screw their knees out into first position.

Unfortunaly there are certifications out there that do NOT weed this kind of thing out. I know of at least one.
Yup it does happen in other dance forms and even other professions that don't have a well defined level of standardization. Even then there are people out there who aren't qualified.
Just watch a few of these reality shows "So you think you Can Dance" etc. Catch the first few when they are going through the masses. You would be suprised about how many horrible (by that I mean obvious lack of training) classic dancers (ballet, tap, jazz, modern, etc) who claim they are instructors. Its funny since one of the first things the judges say to these people is "you shouldn't be teaching".
It happens everywhere...frustrating!
xoxo,
-NJ

I'm not familiar with what's required for certifications at all, but the way this woman made it sound, it was something someone could get easily.

I'm not familiar with what's required for certifications at all, but the way this woman made it sound, it was something someone could get easily.

Yup I know of one where you just send a check and a couple of videos of you and your students performing and POOF your certified!

Not ALL are like that! But for those looking for an easy peice of paper there are some out there!

I just found out recently that Dolphina is certifying people (Teacher Training | GoddessLife), and it looks on the registration page like you pay $800, do a weekend of training in LA and bada bing, you can teach her "Goddess Workout" format.

Zumba (which, to be fair is more exercise than dance) has a very easy certification process. You take a one day workshop for about $300 and you're done. No group fitness, personal trainer or even CPR certification required.

OMG! I was reading the stuff for Zumba and you need to pay for one 8 hour class to be certified to teach it! That is scary...

The basic Level 2 training course mentions Bellydance techniques... hmm

Originally Posted by ravenadesigns

OMG! I was reading the stuff for Zumba and you need to pay for one 8 hour class to be certified to teach it! That is scary...

The basic Level 2 training course mentions Bellydance techniques... hmm

A friend of mine took the level 2 Zumba certification and said the "bellydance" moves have nothing to do with bellydance. They are more along the lines of aerobic dance moves with a hip heavy emphasis.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Again I wonder if ballet has these problems.

Ballet has a governing body - (RAD) BD does not. What BD has is other bellydancers opening up teacher training schools...bellydancers who themselves have no other qualification but their own experience. In the officious world of governed certification any BD 'qualification' means bugger all.

Personally, I would rather train with a dancer who has worked as a successful professional performer for years than with someone who has only 'qualified' with a teacher training scheme. What top dancer in Egypt currently out there offering workshops has any certification or qualification in teacher training?

This could be the SharQui certification, which is for teaching bellydance fitness, not for teaching dance.

There are similar 'certification' in fitness -- a fitness instructor can get a 'yogafit' teaching certificate in just one day and teach 'fitness yoga' or teach kickboxing without ever taking a martial arts class. It's just how the fitness industry works - they assume people know they're getting an exercise class, not dance or yoga or martial arts training. I'm not sure I approve, but it is how they do things.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

This could be the SharQui certification, which is for teaching bellydance fitness, not for teaching dance.

I too was going to mention Oreet's SharQui certification. Her web site currently promotes a 3-day, 18-hour certification program, no previous belly dance experience required.

I think in the past I saw some fitness convention advertising her SharQui class as some sort of 1- or 2-hour workshop you could take for continuing education credit. Not sure if that also "certified" its attendees, though.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I too was going to mention Oreet's SharQui certification. Her web site currently promotes a 3-day, 18-hour certification program, no previous belly dance experience required.

I think in the past I saw some fitness convention advertising her SharQui class as some sort of 1- or 2-hour workshop you could take for continuing education credit. Not sure if that also "certified" its attendees, though.

Fitness instructors taking continuing education workshops absolutely hit the schedule right away with their new format....."certified" or not. When yogafit and pilates mat class workshops became the rage the places where I was working were flooded with new "instructors" eager to cash in on pay-class programming. The clubs didn't offer any more info than necessary about the classes and I'm sorry,the typical health club member seeing yoga or pilates on the schedule is going to assume the club has hired a qualified person. The aren't going to ask if you're Stott or Yoga Alliance certified or a weekend wonder.

Hopefully it's at least the fitness one. Although I've seen some pretty bad bellydance fitness and I'm not even a dancer. I've also seen some pretty shady bellydance certification as well. It's a real shame to see stuff like that, it doesn't help the art at all.

Originally Posted by Kimahri

Fitness instructors taking continuing education workshops absolutely hit the schedule right away with their new format....."certified" or not. When yogafit and pilates mat class workshops became the rage the places where I was working were flooded with new "instructors" eager to cash in on pay-class programming. The clubs didn't offer any more info than necessary about the classes and I'm sorry,the typical health club member seeing yoga or pilates on the schedule is going to assume the club has hired a qualified person. The aren't going to ask if you're Stott or Yoga Alliance certified or a weekend wonder.

Totally agree. As far as the clubs & instructors are concerned, as long as you hold your AFAA or ACE or whatever fitness certification, you're a safe and trained fitness instructor. Adding another type of class is just a matter of learning some new moves and maybe some cuing. As a yoga and BD instructor, I *hate* it, because I do think people assume they're learning yoga or whatever in these classes, and they're just NOT.

Oreet is coming to Richmond, Virginia in April to give the SharQui certification training. Upon first reading the announcement, my impression was that it is a certification for fitness instructors to teach a fitness class with bellydance inspired moves. I think this in an accurate impression. I hadn't planned on taking it, but I have no problem with it. Just another fitness class to keep the fitness class types motivated and interested.

Fionna

Originally Posted by Fionna

Oreet is coming to Richmond, Virginia in April to give the SharQui certification training. Upon first reading the announcement, my impression was that it is a certification for fitness instructors to teach a fitness class with bellydance inspired moves. I think this in an accurate impression. I hadn't planned on taking it, but I have no problem with it. Just another fitness class to keep the fitness class types motivated and interested.

Fionna

The problem is there's no requirement or incentive for a health club to present it as a fitness class...it just becomes the bellydance class!

Originally Posted by Kimahri

The problem is there's no requirement or incentive for a health club to present it as a fitness class...it just becomes the bellydance class!

Oh, yes I agree with you there! The fitness bellydance class can be misconstrued or misrepresented as a real dance class. But don't most people realise that the instructor who taught the "BodyPumpTM" class yesterday and the "SuperCycleTM" class the day before is probably NOT going to teach much real bellydance? Maybe I'm too optimistic though......lemme just take off these rose-colored glasses....

Fionna

Originally Posted by Fionna

Oh, yes I agree with you there! The fitness bellydance class can be misconstrued or misrepresented as a real dance class. But don't most people realise that the instructor who taught the "BodyPumpTM" class yesterday and the "SuperCycleTM" class the day before is probably NOT going to teach much real bellydance? Maybe I'm too optimistic though......lemme just take off these rose-colored glasses....

Fionna

I wouldn't assume that at all....I was the AFAA certified instructor killing them in kickboxing class and teaching bellydance at the same clubs for years.

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Totally agree. As far as the clubs & instructors are concerned, as long as you hold your AFAA or ACE or whatever fitness certification, you're a safe and trained fitness instructor. Adding another type of class is just a matter of learning some new moves and maybe some cuing.

That's exactly what I was going to point out, Lauren. I think the key is that people need to be conscientious consumers. There's nothing wrong with saying "Where did you do your certification?" and then looking up information about those programs.

Something that strikes me regarding classes like Zumba is that it's about trends. It's hot right now, but what about two or three or five years from now? Remember Tae-Bo anyone? Many of these trendy classes are here today and gone tomorrow, or they start masquerading under a different name. I can understand why their training sessions are only a few days long—why would a fitness instructor spend months or weeks paying to learn how to teach BodyInsanity (not a real class, but I made that up), which is going to phase in and out of health club schedules within a year or two? That person will then have to learn the next fitness craze and move on.

This is unfortunate when classes such as bellydance and yoga get caught up within the trend, but I don't think there's much way around it.

Originally Posted by rachelw

That's exactly what I was going to point out, Lauren. I think the key is that people need to be conscientious consumers. There's nothing wrong with saying "Where did you do your certification?" and then looking up information about those programs.

Something that strikes me regarding classes like Zumba is that it's about trends. It's hot right now, but what about two or three or five years from now? Remember Tae-Bo anyone? Many of these trendy classes are here today and gone tomorrow, or they start masquerading under a different name. I can understand why their training sessions are only a few days long—why would a fitness instructor spend months or weeks paying to learn how to teach BodyInsanity (not a real class, but I made that up), which is going to phase in and out of health club schedules within a year or two? That person will then have to learn the next fitness craze and move on.

This is unfortunate when classes such as bellydance and yoga get caught up within the trend, but I don't think there's much way around it.

Preformatted classes are all about selling trends and health club program coordinators love them because they make their jobs easier. If Latin dance is the hot thing your members are asking for you're going to have a tough time finding real instructors. If members like Zumba you can put 10 classes a week on the schedule and they know that it's going to be the same thing no matter when they attend. They also like to think it has a homogenizing effect on the staff...no more rock star or weak link instructors, everyone is the same doing the same thing the same way (of course that NEVER works!)

~~Kimahri

I agree with all the points made here regarding fitness classes and the trends, as well as that most people won't think to look up the instructor (they don't always with regular bellydance instructors, so why should they with fitness classes?)

My other concern was for teachers who *are* offering certifications to see this kind of thing is going on and to try to implement things to discourage this from happening, if possible.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I agree with all the points made here regarding fitness classes and the trends, as well as that most people won't think to look up the instructor (they don't always with regular bellydance instructors, so why should they with fitness classes?)

My other concern was for teachers who *are* offering certifications to see this kind of thing is going on and to try to implement things to discourage this from happening, if possible.

The only thing they can have an impact on is their "product"...the teacher that goes forth certified in their method. If they have no screening or audition process and they certify everyone that attends I don't see where they would have any room to quibble about what the dancer in question does with the cert afterward.


~~Kimahri

I suppose you're right, Kimahri. I think what I mean is that I'd hope it would give instructors that certify everyone who walks through the door some pause...although I suppose if they already do that perhaps they don't really care.

Originally Posted by mmouse1534

Yup I know of one where you just send a check and a couple of videos of you and your students performing and POOF your certified!

Not ALL are like that! But for those looking for an easy peice of paper there are some out there!

yeah but how does someone who's not a bellydancer make such a video?

Uhm, at our Academy we offer diplomas - not certificates. The diplomas state that the diploma holder has been exposed to so and so information according to the curriculum of whatever diploma is in question. It doesnt "certify" or "approve" you...

We have a diploma program currently of 2 years for dancers - as a prep for company work or dance career, a diploma program of 5 for instructors - as prep for becoming an EDA instructor.

The only "certificates" we give out are certificates of participation at workshops and seminars. These are more like "yeah, she was here" type certificates, not the "yeah, she is now approved" type certificates.

There is a significant difference between just doing as told VS understanding what's being told/done....

Originally Posted by Lauren_

This could be the SharQui certification, which is for teaching bellydance fitness, not for teaching dance.

There are similar 'certification' in fitness -- a fitness instructor can get a 'yogafit' teaching certificate in just one day and teach 'fitness yoga' or teach kickboxing without ever taking a martial arts class. It's just how the fitness industry works - they assume people know they're getting an exercise class, not dance or yoga or martial arts training. I'm not sure I approve, but it is how they do things.

Originally Posted by Fionna

Oh, yes I agree with you there! The fitness bellydance class can be misconstrued or misrepresented as a real dance class. But don't most people realise that the instructor who taught the "BodyPumpTM" class yesterday and the "SuperCycleTM" class the day before is probably NOT going to teach much real bellydance? Maybe I'm too optimistic though......lemme just take off these rose-colored glasses....

Fionna

Wrong! The SharQui certification program may be open to everyone, but that doesn't mean they're gonna pass the test. Oreet is very strict and there's no way she's gonna cheapen her brand by passing just anyone. She even drops in periodically in her instructors' classes to assure they stick to the format and everything is safe and people are getting a workout.

SharQui IS an actual belly dance class, the only difference is that there's no stopping between anything so people don't get to rest, everyone is required to keep their arms in 2nd position during the entire hour unless doing snake arms or some other arm movement and the class is structured so that you're constantly working more than one muscle group most of the time even if it's something as simple as adding plies to shoulder shimmies at the beginning level. Other than Suhaila's multi-level workshops, an advanced SharQui class is the most physically challenging thing I've ever done in a belly dance class/workshop.

Yes, I am SharQui certified so I speak from experience. I was already teaching belly dance for a year and a half when I got my SharQui certification in 2006, after having taken classes from a diverse group of instructors here in NYC. I'm also Level 1 certified in the Suhaila Salimpour School of Dance and an ACE certified group fitness instructor as well as in other fitness specialties. So I have plenty of other techniques and styles to compare it to.

There's a few other bhuzzers SharQui certified who can also attest to how tough Oreet is.

Originally Posted by Athallia

Oreet is very strict and there's no way she's gonna cheapen her brand by passing just anyone.

Actually, I'm a conceptual geek and just from my conversations with Oreet as a colleague (and of course from having seen her dance too) I have great respect for her program. She's a very smart and aware person and dancer and she listens very carefully and will ask questions if there is something on her mind. She's not anyway portraying herself as a know-it-all - and through that she keeps and open door to any information that enables her to kind learn and grow. I have to say as schizophrenic I am about "certifications" - if I was ever to actually consider taking a program for personal growth and focus Suhaila Salimpour's level 1 & 2, Zahra's teacher training, Sahra's certifications (and she's continously adding to what she offers! YAY), Mahmoud Reda + Faridah Fahmy's and Oreet's are the ones I would seriously consider. There are probably many other very good programs and competent conceptualizers out there - but they havent reached me the way the programs I mention have.

I do agree with the fact that there has to be a balance between experience and documentation. I kind of always get curious to know what "posessed" people to compete in a gazilllion competitions just as I get curious to know what "posesses" people to take a bazillion certifications - when I go to various websites and read people's bio. I mean, heads up to them for putting in the money, effort, dedication, dicipline... opening for personal growth...but in a performance art form without a universally accepted "format" of how to do things it can seem like people "collect" titles and certifications to look good on paper.....and the reality may not live up to the expectations the papers build them up to live up to.

I as an instructor notice a trend as well - whereas back in the day we all used to be like "has taken workshops with" on our websites...now several potential sponsors actually ASK whether I give "certificates" for my workshops or not as a part of their initial inquiry... I'm like... SURE, I'll give you a paper saying you were THERE in attendance... (doesnt that bring back memories from school... "david is a polite hard working student, but he could work on his punctuality")....then they're like can we word it like "has successfully completed" or something that sounds nice in print? It almost seems to me like as if people think pretty words on paper will MAKE them a good dancer. In that case, I need to go back and re-write my bio on my website and sprinkle in some more fancy words! lol

Thanks Athallia and DaVid for your kind words and helping others understand my SharQui Teacher training. For those of you who are ineterested in my program you can contact me at oreet@sharqui.com with any questions you have. I would be happy to answer them!

As Athallia stated, my program is bellydance but with a fitness feel. The program is taught anatomically and geared toward the way a fitness enthusiast thinks. It also about trouble shooting movements. For example if a movements is too challenging to execute we talk about what muscles need to be engaged and or initiated in order to execute.

SharQui is an extremely safe program and my program teaches instructors modifications as well as how to communicate and cue movements quickly in order to ensure flow of the class. Might I add, SharQui is the ONLY fitness acredited program in the world which I am very proud of! It is recognized by both ACE and AFAA and working on getting it accredited by ACSM.

I am happy that I am educating both fitness and dance enthusiasts alike to dance effectively and have a longer dance career without any injuries.

Feel free to contact me. I would be happy to answer your questions!

Respectfully,
Oreet

Just to clarify, this initial post wasn't about any particular person's certification program, but about the general public assuming certificate = bellydancer/instructor. What are the thoughts on that from those who do offer certifications (David, Oreet?)