Thread: Those "8-month wonders" who "go pro" and dance for free!rrrr!

Well, I just had to rant and rave about a dancer who was in a BEGINNING class for about 8 months - dropped out to pursue modeling and is now dancing for FREE on a regular basis in a small local bar in town! She is telling troupe members she runs into "oh, are you still dancing, well I've gone pro and am dancing free regularly at xyz bar but not using the teacher's music or choreo". As if that makes it all okay!

If she tells me she is dancing regularly for free as a pro, I will have no qualms about pointing out that in the belly dance community, this is undercutting other bellydancers pay scale. And as a veteran of 10 years of dancing professionally, for pay, at clubs and restaurants in Bay Area, I know what I'm talking about.

Lament: Where are the belly dance police when you need them!,m::

I feel your pain...

Yes. Tell her she's only a "pro" if she charges "pro" rates. Cheeky madam.

I wish I had something to offer this thread other than negativity and disapproval. There's been some shady stuff going on near me and it makes me wonder if this is all just a big game of Pretty Pretty Princess to some people. What hurts is that the selfish actions of just a small handful of dancers can upset the balance for everyone, and most of the time, these dancers don't give a rat's posterior about the detriment of their actions.

I just feel bad for these dancers. They have to know that they're not good enough to command professional rates...

I know, ladies, I know. There seems to be an outbreak as of late.

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

My guess is that eventually, if she has a clue, she'll realize the absurdity of her own statement and be horribly embarrassed about how clueless she was in front of other dancers. Or, if she doesn't have a clue, she'll come to realize how hard bellydancing is and quit.

Originally Posted by Freddie

Yes. Tell her she's only a "pro" if she charges "pro" rates. Cheeky madam.

Exactly. Which makes her only an imitation. And an imposter. .p::

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

Too right! That's a good way of putting it!

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

..l;, I LIKE this! Hope you don't mind if I use it ..g.:

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

I missed this before! I love it!! ..l;,..l;,..l;,

You know, I'm volunteering to make snacks for a volunteer organization.

Time to update my resume! I'm now a professional chef.

Worth less than napkins and toilet paper. Wow, Tanya, that really is perspective!

"It's nice to hear they're paying you what you're worth." :zillevil:

Too harsh?

Originally Posted by laura 2

"It's nice to hear they're paying you what you're worth." :zillevil:

Too harsh?

Hahahaha very Dorothy Parker / Groucho Marx

Agreed with what's been said, I don't understand how she thinks she's a pro, if she isn't even getting paid...

well i cant say anything because i did that... but i didnt drop out of the classes or anything.. she just probably wants the experience! dont let it get to you :)

Don't tell her - write an article and post it on your website. Educate the students you CAN educate.

Originally Posted by Nisima

well I've gone pro and am dancing free regularly at xyz bar but not using the teacher's music or choreo".

Well, I'm dealing with this right now! I've talked about undercutting, and I've explained in detail the arrangements I've made with local businesses. And I get accused of holding them back.

Here's the thing: most of the time you're dealing with women who HAVE other income. They aren't trying to make ends meet by dancing at a bar. The only payment they demand is ATTENTION -- and that's worth a LOT to some people.

You can't convince these attention-hounds that what they're doing is bad for everybody. As long as they have an audience, they will "perform." It's sad and disgusting, and there's not a darn thing we can do about it. It kills me to know that I am now guaranteed to have some of my ex-students undercutting me on the jobs they know I have. All I can do is remain active in our arts community, and not back down from what I believe to be the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by aziyade

Here's the thing: most of the time you're dealing with women who HAVE other income. They aren't trying to make ends meet by dancing at a bar. The only payment they demand is ATTENTION -- and that's worth a LOT to some people.

YES. I really feel there are some issues of poor self-worth that must play into these undercutting situations. I mean really, how desperate are these people to dance?

I am so far past cynical on the undercutting issue. Over a year and a half ago, several dancers in my community engaged in a couple of meetings with the purpose of rectifying our crappy rate situation. Those of us who attended felt pretty good because we had agreed upon some minimum rates for things like restaurants and parties and had gained momentum to possibly increase rates at a local low-paying venue. Well, let's just say the good feelings died REALLY quickly when it came down to dancers having to choose between holding onto their gigs vs. standing together for better rates. It all ended up being for nothing, because there are always, always, always dancers who are willing to dance for less (or nothing).

So I think the best we can do is just keep maintaining our own standards and hope that eventually clients will wake up and see the difference. You really do get what you pay for, in most cases.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

YES. I really feel there are some issues of poor self-worth that must play into these undercutting situations. I mean really, how desperate are these people to dance?

If were going to dance for free, I'd much rather do it at a hafla or other BD community event. At least there I have more freedom to dance to the music I love, and for people who at least have an inkling of the difficulty level of what I'm doing.

Seriously, If I'm going to dance to the Arabic Happy Birthday song for the 500th time, with a smile on my face that indicates I'm having the time of my life, you bet I'm getting paid well to do it!

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

roflmao!

Originally Posted by Freddie

Yes. Tell her she's only a "pro" if she charges "pro" rates. Cheeky madam.

I agree. You can't be "PRO" unless you are getting paid..

Originally Posted by laura 2

If were going to dance for free, I'd much rather do it at a hafla or other BD community event. At least there I have more freedom to dance to the music I love, and for people who at least have an inkling of the difficulty level of what I'm doing.

Seriously, If I'm going to dance to the Arabic Happy Birthday song for the 500th time, with a smile on my face that indicates I'm having the time of my life, you bet I'm getting paid well to do it!

Word! ..l;,

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

YES. I really feel there are some issues of poor self-worth that must play into these undercutting situations. I mean really, how desperate are these people to dance?

Incredibly, apparently. There are occasionally people who just haven't been taught better by their teachers, though.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

So I think the best we can do is just keep maintaining our own standards and hope that eventually clients will wake up and see the difference. You really do get what you pay for, in most cases.

Wow, that's a shame about what happened in your community. We have in our area managed to raise rates to a fairly reasonable level through cooperation and communication. There are still undercutters of course, but they are in the minority.
All we can do is continue to hold high standards for ourselves, choose to support others who also hold high professional standards, communicate honestly and cooperate openly AND educate, educate, educate.

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

love . . . love . . . LOVE this!

Deborah

Sorry to hear about this. No matter how lovely this Model is, she should not undercut her community. It is detrimental to all bellydancers. Even if it's exciting to her. After a while, she'll realize maybe that she's shot herself in the foot, along with all her collegues. I can just imagine a shop owner telling her in a few years..."What you're charging now? But you used to do it for free..."

Originally Posted by Nisima

"oh, are you still dancing, well I've gone pro and am dancing free regularly at xyz bar but not using the teacher's music or choreo".

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The one basic definition that people agree on about being a "professional" is "getting paid".

No pay = not professional.

Dancing regularly for free at a bar = so desperate for attention that you'll do anything to get it

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

You're not pro if you're not getting paid. If you're dancing for free at a business establishment you're worth less then the toilet paper and napkins. Bars and restaurants actually pay for those type of things (how's that for a reality check.)

This is the best quote of the day Tanya.

I'm a professional doctor. I will give you FREE diagnosis on the net.

What do you wanna be? :-)

Good laughs.....toilet paper....*bwa ha ha ha*

Originally Posted by laura 2

If were going to dance for free, I'd much rather do it at a hafla or other BD community event. At least there I have more freedom to dance to the music I love, and for people who at least have an inkling of the difficulty level of what I'm doing.

Seriously, If I'm going to dance to the Arabic Happy Birthday song for the 500th time, with a smile on my face that indicates I'm having the time of my life, you bet I'm getting paid well to do it!

"Sana haaalwaaa ya gameel....sana halwaaa ya habiiiibbiiii..."