Thread: The ethics of dancing for free – showcases

Hi

I need some general bhuz consensus on this because I’m not sure.

I’ve lived in London a year now and still not really performing much. Mainly because I have a full time job and spend every weekday evening at the gym/dance class/Arabic language class. I don’t want to give up every precious weekend night to spend my evenings taking ages travelling to central London to dance really late at night to dance the same old commercial stuff. I am coming to peace with this – I need to let go of the ‘pride’ of being a working dancer and just do what makes me happy. My ideal is dancing every month or 2 for an audience that ‘gets it’.

Anyway, there seems to be a trend in London, a lot of dancers put on ‘showcases’ where they hire a venue, get a few dancers (10-20ish) to dance, an informal show and charge people entry. Surprisingly, they all seem to be pretty well attended. These are ideal for me, I get an knowledgable audience so I can indulge my artistic/folkloric craving rather than restaurant blah, I am dealing with fellow dancers rather than asshat restaurant owners/tiring GP clients and its all together less lonely than the gigging experience. It seems to be I could dance at one of these every month or so, which is about the frequency I want to be performing.

Now as far as I now, none of these showcases pay the dancers. There are some that are very well established, such as Planet Egypt, it is a privilege to dance there, there is no question. However, they still charge entrance and don’t pay the dancers. But I’ve danced at others less well known or just starting out where I am thinking hmm, they are charging entrance, why aren’t I getting paid? Why does it feel OK to dance at someone’s hafla for free (they all still charge for tickets) but not some of these ‘showcases’. Where to draw the line?

What does bhuz think?

Thanks

Z

I think it depends upon where the door fee is going. It might be simply paying for rental of the space etc, in which case, it's benefiting all the performers. If there was a workshop- it may be paying the workshop presenter/headliner. If there was A LOT of promotion, I would expect/hope some goes to the promoter.
Once stage rental is paid and other people may get a cut- how much is left for the dancers- and what happens when that is then divided by 10-20? Not much left, really.

The way BD operates in the globalised sphere is changing, and showcases are a way for BDers to a) perform and b) take charge of their dance so they can do what they want. You need to weigh up what matters to you most and the ethics of the event.

I have some difficulties because I "happen" at the nexus of the pro gig and the showcase. I was taught not to dance for free, except of course at school events, which were places where I could actually *dance* instead of shimmying round tables. But even there, if you were a featured performer you used to be paid. That's changed since the school ceased to be a private enterprise. Now, also, there are dancers who organise showcases for themselves and their friends, who use said showcases to beef up reasons for people to attend workshops etc - all good. But they're promoted to the GP as professional shows and I have a sneaking suspicion that in some cases, Peter (the dance community) is being robbed to pay Paul (the venue that wants paying customers to come in and spend money over their bar.)

But yet again, in the globalised BD world, we rate performance very highly and we work towards performance all the time. Where can we perform when there are no restaurants/clubs of the right kind? So we come back to the showcase.

Yeah, it's pretty usual here for dancers to perform at showcases for free. And these 'showcases' are getting to be more commercial ie: set up with at least part of the intention being to make money. I used to resent this, and when I went 'pro' briefly toyed with the idea of not dancing if I didn't get paid. However, I quickly learned that not dancing if you're not paid=not dancing. I've made my peace with it now, and will happily dance in showcases because:

(a) it's good exposure to potential students (I run a bellydance school). Particularly to intermediate students who may one day like to try classes somewhere new.
(b) people will only refer gigs on to dancers they've seen and therefore know are up to scratch
(c) it gives me an opportunity to fulfill my artistic yearnings (not just bellygram bop)
(d) it gives me an avenue to promote quality bellydance to the GP
(e) it's all part of promoting a vibrant bellydance community. You perform at my showcase, I'll perform at yours. You refer gigs to me, I'll refer some back to you, etc. I always think it makes good sense to actively promote good relationships - karma comes back in both increased business and warm happy vibes.

Here, I think the most payment a dancer is likely to receive is more of a token, far below the going market rate. If it's a dinner function the dancers will usually also be fed for free. I'm happy with that, though I would also appreciate not having to pay for DVD footage of my own performance. I think this would be a nice extra way of saying 'thank-you' to the dancers.

I've never put on a showcase before, but I've sponsored events that included a show. Samira's right--even though you're charging admission, it really just pays for the venue rental, etc. If there is a profit after rental, promotion, and misc expenses, then it's not much and looks pathetic when divided up between everyone.

I do acknowledge, however, that putting on a professional show requires professional performers. For this reason, I always try to give my dancers *something*... a free DVD, a discount on the workshop, dinner, or maybe even a guest comp. I also do this for the volunteers, if I can. Putting on an event requires team work and I strongly feel that everyone should be acknowledged in some way.

Just my .02 cents.

if you are a professional dancer and prefer to dance at these places, perhaps you can suggest that venue can bring less amount of more pro dancers and divide the entrance fee.
There are many dancers all over the world to dance for free...Pro dancers should be different than them, and support the dancing community by encouraging that dancers should get paid.
This is not just a hobby but also art and living for some dancers.

I would imagine that most showcases of this nature just about cover costs.
Obviously if they are making a profit that might allow for some payment but it might not be enough to recompense 10-20 dancers adequately .
There is also the risk factor. The organiser in giving a platform to dancers takes the chance that he or she may not make a profit but a loss.
The good thing about taking part in these showcases is lot it is exposure for the dancer in a different kind of venue, a way to keep in touch with the community.
If these ventures are very successful it may be a good idea to pay a guest dancer but that will probably only happen where you have fewer performers and you would have the problem of "ranking your dancers".
One thing I applaud about these type of ventures is that they give a platform to dancers who are not seen as "commercially viable" and who will still be admired by a discerning audience. Not that that applied to you, Zaf!!!! More the likes of me!

Here in the greater Los Angeles area, these showcases come in various types. One where I dance regularly (Khoury's in Long Beach on Wednesday nights), the dancers are not paid BUT we are tipped individually and we dance to the live music of John Biliezikjian. It's unfortunate that we don't have a drummer, but to have a living, breathing legend of ME music playing for us is such a privilege.

Other showcases don't pay either, but collect tips throughout the night and divide them equally among the dancers, and/or collect a cover charge and split that.

Some venues, rather than requiring a cover charge, have a minimum purchase; some have no monetary requirement at all to see the show, but everyone is encouraged to make a food or beverage purchase.

Showcases also vary as to quality of performers. Some showcases are by invitation-only; most are y'all come. Which leads to some tricky stuff in public venues.

I have some real trepidation about "y'all come" showcases in public venues. "I love to dance" is an entirely different idea than "I can dance."

Deborah

Hi Deborah...yes Khoury's is an exceptional showcase. I have performed there once and loved it...we get John here in San Diego once every other month.
if the showcase is covering all the cost just to create a venue for dancers yes it is completely different feeling, but if the venue is established with a band or DJ on a stage and charging cover charge I think pro dancers should get paid, also depends on the day and place.
Some showcases happen during the week so it will not interfere with professional dancers peak times. Therefore students could get experience dancing in showcases that happen during the week and not to get paid.

Or, a semi-related issue that's rant-worthy to me:

When teachers pimp out 16 of their best students to perform at a restaurant for the same price as one professional dancer, so the restaurant owner thinks twice about getting 1/16th of the talent for the same price. This is going on at a beautiful ME restaurant right in my backyard - it's a shame, because the general public is getting acclimated to a regular Amateur Night (on Saturday nights, mind you) when they could be exposed to professional entertainment.

This is what worries me about regularly occurring showcases in public venues. When it's a special occasion type of thing, that's OK - but when it's intentionally done as a "baker's dozen" type of proposition....ehhhhh....

OK, the response has helped. I haven't had a thousand people telling me I'm an evil undercutter for considering doing these things or anything. They are ideal for my situation and I don't mind in myself doing it for free (seeing as everyone is so it's not undercutting). I just wanted to check this wouldn't be a huge no-no akin to dancing in a restaurant for just food or something!!

I'll dance at showcases out of my area if I'm invited because its publicity and advertising and I enjoy it-Once i used to spend a lot of money on advertising-now I just have cards and will travel. Each time I have danced it has brought me recognition and work and more importantly contacts and friends. I look upon it as marketing and enlarging my network and I always get to meet great new people I never would if I'd stayed at home in my area.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Or, a semi-related issue that's rant-worthy to me:

When teachers pimp out 16 of their best students to perform at a restaurant for the same price as one professional dancer, so the restaurant owner thinks twice about getting 1/16th of the talent for the same price. This is going on at a beautiful ME restaurant right in my backyard - it's a shame, because the general public is getting acclimated to a regular Amateur Night (on Saturday nights, mind you) when they could be exposed to professional entertainment.

This is what worries me about regularly occurring showcases in public venues. When it's a special occasion type of thing, that's OK - but when it's intentionally done as a "baker's dozen" type of proposition....ehhhhh....

This is a slightly off-topic tangent, but in the Boston area, we have an Amateur night on Sundays once a month at a restaurant well known for its high quality professional dancing. On that night, roughly 6-8 amateurs get to perform with a live band for 5-10 minutes each, and then the night continues on with a real pro. So everybody who came to the restaurant clearly sees the difference.

Of course, this is also a venue where the event manager is very picky about the quality of his professional dancers, as is the regular clientele, so he'd be extremely unlikely to ditch his pros for the amateurs. He appreciates the business the amateurs' friends bring in, but that's the extent of it.

Anyway, just to observe that such a situation can work out for everyone.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

I'm happy with that, though I would also appreciate not having to pay for DVD footage of my own performance. I think this would be a nice extra way of saying 'thank-you' to the dancers.

I'm with you on that! One thing about the workshop/show package that bugs me is this... you have to take the workshop to be in the show (ok - I get this), the host charges a good amount for the ticket ($20+ - ok, there's a headliner to be paid), then I have to pay full price for the show DVD?? At the very least give the dancers a copy of the DVD without charge - IMO.

Regarding the door fee for more informal showcase nights... I do host these. The door fee is nominal, usually $5. Of course the dancers aren't paying the door fee, so what comes in from audience goes partly to the host venue and the rest covers flyers, and time for organizing, promoting, formatting music etc.

It takes a fair amount of work to put these on. Details need to be worked out with the venue. Communicating with performers for music, style and time and lining up a good mix. Dealing with people who wait till the *day of* the event to turn in their music to be put into the show playlist, and then it's in the wrong file format!! (By the way, can you edit out that wierd section at the end, I'm not dancing to that! Sure.)

These nights provide a place for instructors to show their troupe pieces and let dancers get some stage experience in front of a suitable crowd so generally I find that those who ask for spots are there specifically for that purpose. Because their need is met, I haven't had any complaints about the practice.

Just my .02

Mahin

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

This is a slightly off-topic tangent, but in the Boston area, we have an Amateur night on Sundays once a month at a restaurant well known for its high quality professional dancing. On that night, roughly 6-8 amateurs get to perform with a live band for 5-10 minutes each, and then the night continues on with a real pro. So everybody who came to the restaurant clearly sees the difference.

Of course, this is also a venue where the event manager is very picky about the quality of his professional dancers, as is the regular clientele, so he'd be extremely unlikely to ditch his pros for the amateurs. He appreciates the business the amateurs' friends bring in, but that's the extent of it.

Anyway, just to observe that such a situation can work out for everyone.

See, I'd agree that that's an example of a GOOD application of student night. It's done on an off night. People can already go there to see pro dancers, if they decide they like the student shows. Pro dancers aren't getting stiffed in favor of 16 students. And they control who dances there, and how many dancers go on at a time. Not to mention, I love that the students can get a taste for dancing with a band - I wish I had that resource as a baby dancer.

I'm more against a student night when it's used as a cheaper, "value-added" alternative to hiring professionals.

Kinda skim-read this thread because I'm in a hurry . . .

The only time I'd heard of showcases before getting into belly dancing was when bands perform at a showcase. This is where a few bands perform in a club or somewhere, they perform for free, and the organiser has arranged for some A&R guys to come down to see if they want to sign them to their label.

So when I heard of a dance showcase, I thought that it would be publicised among the general public, to attract new students to the classes, and among the restaurant owners etc., so that they could see if they wanted to employ any of the performers. In such a case it would be worhtwhile to dance for free.

But if the audience is made up of relatives and friends of the performers, while it's lovely to dance in a good setting and all that, it does seem a bit unfair to not get paid for it.

Venue hire can cost a lot and there's a fair amount of work involved, but it would be nice if the dancers were recompensed if they aren't actually going to be promoted to potential students / employers.

I think that if I ever hosted a showcase I would make sure that people knew what the situation was with the money up front, and know whether it was a personal profit making venture for the organiser or if they do it purely for the love of it (or a bit of both?).

Nothing wrong with making a profit, but nice to know what the score is up front.

I think some posters are not recognising the change in the hospitality industry in some places. I can't speak for Boston and places like that, BUT where I live, and I suspect where a lot of us live, live entertainment has taken some fairly big hits in the past 20 years. Venues won't pay for it unless it brings in its keep, and there are alternatives that work out cheaper and easier. Electronic jukeboxes or just plain Itunes. Cover bands have never recovered. Even live cover-type entertainers these days are more likely to use a backing track than musos.

I danced a couple of times in a restaurant that tried using a dancer to get people in, but you know what they had when there was no dancer? Video footage of Turkish and Egyptian dancers. While the experience is in no way comparable to having a live dancer, it's dancing wallpaper and in many ways less challenging than a real dancer for punters. And it's CHEAP.

Restaurants operate on tiny margins and it's not fair of them to ask people like us to dance for barely anything.

Yet, we want to dance and do it like professionals. Where do we go? Showcases.

One point about the kind of showcases and performance opportunities that occur here n the UK. They may not be paid for participants but in the end, they have been created by the organsier to give a performance opportunity that was not there before.
Some dancers do get the restaurant,party and corporate events that are paid. There are "gigs" in rest homes and for charities that may have a fee involved but for many dancers, even those of some experience the ones. And for some theatre and festival will have little or no remuneration just satisfcation. if you want to platform yourself to your peers,friends,family and the GP, you sometimes have to give your talent. You have a choice - you don't have to do it. More often than not we end up paying to perform at haflas because they are non-profit making or fundraising. So performing for free can seem like a great alternative!
Thos of us who started dancing in our 40s 50s 60s were never going to be commercially viable but we might still think we are entertaining and we'd like to show off a bit so it's great that people make an effort to provide a platform for us. Having said that the troupe I belong to got a paid gig when film makers saw us performing at a festival so there ya go!

same, i got like half my international PAID work this way, by first showing up and dancing, for free, at festivals, in showcases, etc... networking

but a local, ongoing thing, hmm, depends how it's set up i guess.

Originally Posted by Candi

I'll dance at showcases out of my area if I'm invited because its publicity and advertising and I enjoy it-Once i used to spend a lot of money on advertising-now I just have cards and will travel. Each time I have danced it has brought me recognition and work and more importantly contacts and friends. I look upon it as marketing and enlarging my network and I always get to meet great new people I never would if I'd stayed at home in my area.

This is a conflicting thing for me. If I dance only for pay, well, then I don't dance. Yes, this is undercutting for other professionals. It does give us the opportunity for exposure but then I also think that it is not my responsibility to carry a whole show, to be critiqued unfairly as an excuse to just not hire me back. But from what I've seen at a lot of these places, they don't have a very packed crowd anyway so I just wonder how long some of these places are going to last anyway.

The only other thing I could add to the above is that if a dancer wanted to be paid to do a showcase, say with maybe 6 other dancers, they could organise themselves, put on the show, charge entrance, and split the money. Could be a nice way of a showcase type experience with pay.

Originally Posted by Fotia

This is a conflicting thing for me. If I dance only for pay, well, then I don't dance. Yes, this is undercutting for other professionals. It does give us the opportunity for exposure but then I also think that it is not my responsibility to carry a whole show, to be critiqued unfairly as an excuse to just not hire me back. But from what I've seen at a lot of these places, they don't have a very packed crowd anyway so I just wonder how long some of these places are going to last anyway.

I kind of feel the same way. I hate the idea of "auditioning" at a restaurant. It's totally nerve wracking, for one. You don't audition a plumber or an electrician, nor do you ask an artist to paint you a "sample" painting, or a band to come jam in your garage before playing at your wedding - so why do BDers do this?

I guess that's a completely different topic, since a restaurant showcase is different from an audition. But I can see where some restaurant owners totally abuse the privilege of having a huge pool of talent from which to cherry pick its house dancers. And, not to mention, getting a 4-hour long show at the same rate as hiring a pro.

Generally the showcases I'm talking about are performances of professional and semi proffessional by invite only-not restaurant auditions, not amateur hour somewhere. A chance to be seen and prove yourself.

Yes, *always* be up front about the money. It should never be a secret or surprise to anyone if they are getting paid or not and how much.

Mahin

The downside of doing a showcase though is that you don't get the time to interact with the people, which I love to do. And the people don't get much of a chance to enjoy the dancer very long, unlike if it's the same dancer for 20-30 minutes, they get to be part of her schtick and interact.

Satin, I agree with you on the auditioning part. If your resume is pretty full and you've been dancing for a long time, it's quite obvious you have hiring potential. I feel that way when someone wants me to take a typing test and I have been doing my day job for 20 years already!

Originally Posted by Fotia

Satin, I agree with you on the auditioning part. If your resume is pretty full and you've been dancing for a long time, it's quite obvious you have hiring potential. I feel that way when someone wants me to take a typing test and I have been doing my day job for 20 years already!

There's more to it than talent, sometimes. It seems like "hiring potential" at restaurants often means matching the owner's standards of attractive decor. If somebody wants to size me up, they can check out my promotional pics.

But let's not even get started on that ,r:;

Originally Posted by zafirah

OK, the response has helped. I haven't had a thousand people telling me I'm an evil undercutter for considering doing these things or anything. They are ideal for my situation and I don't mind in myself doing it for free (seeing as everyone is so it's not undercutting). I just wanted to check this wouldn't be a huge no-no akin to dancing in a restaurant for just food or something!!

No, definitely not an evil undercutter!

My only true concern with a showcase set up featuring students is when it is held in a public place where the GP is present. It's one thing to hold a showcase in an off-the-beaten-path section of a restaurant (or, even better, a private banquet room at a restauant) and quite another to hold it right smack dab in the middle of the dining room. If the showcase is in the middle of the restaurant, or even if the GP has easy sight lines into a showcase, I believe that the performers should display very solid technique and have some entertainment value. In other words, high-level students getting some stage training and those who already have that training and experience. Beginner/Intermediate students have recitals and haflas for performing; leave the showcases to the advanced-and-up dancers.

Good luck, Zafirah!

Deborah

I like doing showcase I have gotten gigs from a few. I always wanted to know if the showcase host was getting anything out of it, or do they just break even? Also with these showcase you could pay the dancer in advertisement, like have information about there classes/workshops in the program. Or even instead of the MC introducing you with you bio, they could introduce you with your class information or up coming events. I never seen this offered before.

In my dreams, my showcase is in a restaurant's private banquet room. I charge a very modest cover charge and the restaurant is guaranteed a certain minimum dollar amount per person (again, a very modest amount) by charging a minimum amount.

I invite high-quality dancers to perform as well as invite teachers to showcase their well-trained student soloists and troupes. For their time and talent, each performer receives a complimentary meal plus monetary compensation in the form of tips. Depending upon the locale, in-costume tips might or might not be permitted, but if permitted, each dancer retains all her tips; if in-costume tipping is not permitted, then tips are collected throughout the evening and split evenly among the dancers.

The cover charge allows me to pay for the performers' meals and (hopefully) retain enough to pay for advertising and other direct expenses. The minimum order amount means that the restaurant will be happy for the showcase to return since it's guaranteed a minimum per person and doesn't have to wonder how many people are going to spend $2.50 on a diet soda and nurse it all evening.

And after the performers' meals and other showcase expenses are paid, if I actually make a couple of bucks, so much the better. Better, even, if I make more than just a couple of bucks. Actually, there is no shame in making money from these things. Really. Time, effort, creativity, risk . . . it really is okay to make money from one's art.

Deborah

Originally Posted by zafirah

Hi

I need some general bhuz consensus on this because I’m not sure.


Now as far as I now, none of these showcases pay the dancers. There are some that are very well established, such as Planet Egypt, it is a privilege to dance there, there is no question. However, they still charge entrance and don’t pay the dancers. But I’ve danced at others less well known or just starting out where I am thinking hmm, they are charging entrance, why aren’t I getting paid? Why does it feel OK to dance at someone’s hafla for free (they all still charge for tickets) but not some of these ‘showcases’. Where to draw the line?

What does bhuz think?

Thanks

Z

I've been a professionally paid dancer for years..and I danced at Planet Egypt and did not get paid. I didn't expect to. I knew the score. I did it because, A) I was asked to, and B) I fancied a trip to London, and c) it's an event that gives good exposure for a dancer. You do not get paid to do showcases...because what you do get is exposure and a platform to perhaps get more work. Organising such events is a thankless task and involves a lot of admin and expenditure of both time and money for the organisers. Anne White does pay expenses, but this is all. Most showcases will even pay that.

If all the performers were paid, the event would cost a fortune to hold whiich would mean massive ticket prices for the audience.