Thread: Success with Undercutters?

Boo, hiss.

But I'm curious. Has anybody ever had success getting an undercutter (or someone guilty of other professional no-nos) to change their wicked ways?

I'd love to hear a heartwarming tale of redemption.

When undercutting was unintentional, a respectful explanation of why I charge what I do was sufficient (tho it took time to see the change as they processed the idea)

intentional- dunno- hope someone has had luck, I haven't had to deal with it, thankfully!

We've had huge success in our area in getting our rates up simply by communicating. Lucy started a yahoo group for the pros, we network together online- we invite newer dancers to join so they see the info- even if their teacher isn't teaching it.
The rates were the same for FIFTEEN years here and we're finally getting them up to a professional level.
That being said- last week I had a gig booked. It was a referral from a restaurant and I've never had any issues- the brother (who was paying for a party) met a "dancer" who offered THREE 20 minute shows for $250...when the "minimum" here is $200/20 and I had negotiated $250/20. They canceled on me because the brother wanted to "save money". Come to find out- she is a bartender at a restaurant where he went. Sometimes she gets up to "belly dance"- she's taken "a few classes". People can go to a high end salon and get a trained and skilled artist. They can get their hair cut in their kitchen by someone with a flow-bee. It's their choice. This gal isn't a part of the bd community, so there was no point in trying to educate her.
Many are "unintentional undercutters". It sometimes takes time to help them realize if they are good they'll still get work at much higher prices, but it works.
The "intentional undercutters", intentionally unethical and knowingly getting groped for a dollar.... In my experience they will lie about it, try to point the finger of blame at anyone who dares call them out, make impossible claims of "black-listing" and continue their selfish, unethical, unprofessional ways. Sometimes they'll try to fly under the radar for a while...but if they remain in "the business" and if they function in life in dysfunctional, dishonest ways- their own misguided "survival skills" will win out over honor and integrity. These ones are few and far between though.

if undercutting stems form just not knowing any better, as is often the case with students just starting out performing, well, helping and educating my students, rather then getting riled up about it, has been the best way for me.

i talk to them after class, and send them a detailed email with my prices, (in detail, what kind of prices for what kind of gigs, when is it alright to dance for free and when isnt it, when do i give reductions, what's the bottom line), and the reasons for these prices, and why students dancing for less is a problem, and learning to say no, and opportunities will come, and which opportunities I can give them, etc etc, and so far i've only ever have gotten very positive results from that

mostly very happy students who are very happy with the guidance, telling me they really didnt have a CLUE what to charge, and now they have a better idea etc etc.

and i'm not just all nice in these emails, i tell them flat out "if you dont think you are good enough to charge what i charge, more or less, well, then dont dance for money... yet"...

at first i was afraid i'd come of as a control freak, trying to lecture them, but i try telling them that's really not what i mean, i just want to help them and the business, and i DONT have a problem with them performing, on the contrary, they can come and talk to me about it...

there is NO use in us complaining about undercutting if we dont start with educating our own home base, and noticing, on time, when our students are starting to perform, and letting them know that you are open for questions about this (even when you secretly think they are NOT ready, they are doing it anyway so talk)...

i've also shared my price info with several other local dancers, one had asked me for it, and afterwards i deceided to send it to another couple of people. since i sometimes refer gigs to them, and vice versa, it's nice being more or less on the same page.

I often think that proper education is the right way to bring a new pro into the world. If a teacher fully explains to her "ready for professional work" students the going rate, why and how the rate is set, and the detriments of undercutting then most of the time the new pro will happily oblige. They will do this for the approval of their teacher and for the acceptance of their co-workers (we may go up against each other for gigs but I consider all pros in my area co-workers it makes for less drama.)

Teachers who don't raise their baby belly's right, or don't nurture the buiness aspect often times have performers who go pro before they're ready and don't know about the industry standards.

Undercutters usually have a short shelf life anyway. Fellow dancer's don't give their extra gigs to undercutters and buisness owners will hire them untill the "pretty girl in sparkles" novelty wears off. There will probably be a new set of undercutters to take their place but for a lasting career one should maintain professionalism no matter what the job entails.

I'll confess that when I was in my first 3-4 years of dancing I was totally guilty of undercutting, but at the time I had NO idea. I set my rates based on my experience with/obervations of some of my instructors, and little did I know that they were engaging in questionable business practices. I was guilty of major, major ignorance.

As time went by and I got broader exposure to other dancers and other communities (and also as I earned more trust from ethical dancers in my own community), I learned the error of my ways and since then have worked very hard to maintain a high professional standard.

I try to be very up-front and honest with my students about ethical business practices and what the going rates are (well, should be) in our community. The most important things are 1. leading by example and 2. getting the information out there.

Nisaa, you bring up a good point. Some of us really don't know better when we first start out. This is why I think all teachers should take a vested accountability in their students' professional behaviors.

I'll also confess: As an overeager baby-dancer, one of my earliest teacher volunteered me and another student to sub in twice for the house dancer at this weird, shady Greek nightclub. We each got paid $75, which I later found out was half of what the house dancer normally made.

Now, I was just stoked at the time that I got any gig, and I thought this was OK because my teacher said it was. But in hindsight, I would have been pissed if I were the house dancer - the owner, who was pretty smarmy and changed dancers like most people change clothes, was getting a two-for-one special. And we weren't terribly experienced or business-savvy, at that point.

I still feel terribly for unintentionally undercutting on this occasion, even though it happened about 4 years ago. But I don't think my teacher acted very responsibly by letting her students loose on a professional venue, especially not when she was allowing them to undercut the house dancer's rate.