Thread: What do you think sharing 50% of tips with the restaurant owner?

I have given up fighting the fight over the tips on the floor. BUT money that gets handed to me IS MINE and no one has any right to demand it or to cut my pay in any way because of this and no dancer should allow this. Do waitstaff share their tips with management? Caterers or valet? Nope. Then why should dancers?

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

Whichever brave soul bring sit up with the owner might want to print out the codes and speak "out of concern for the owner" and also "because you know he wants to do the right thing"

What a great way to frame that!

I've seen just about every messed up convoluted tip scam there is...
Owner wants percentage of tips
Owner says body tips are dancer's - floor tips are house
Variation.... body tips are dancer's - floor tips are band's
Tips during the dance show get split 50/50 with band

To that I say...
Do you take a percentage of your wait staff's tips?
Do I get a percentage of the bar during my show? haha
My favorite...how about we ask that person who showered that pile of 1's on me if he meant it for me or for the house??

Over the years, I've tried to be proactive and get clear on the tip policy at a new place *before* I do the gig- especially in the case of live music. Unfortunately, this is always seen as being a greedy tip monger. Waiting till after the show is just asking for trouble though. Sometimes it seems you can't win either way.


Mahin

I'd like to add that as a patron, I'd be pissed. I like to tip dancers to show my appreciation of their hard work and great entertainment. I tip the wait staff for their excellent service and friendly demeanor.

I tip these individuals for what they as individual people do for my dining experience.

If I wanted to heap bills on the owner or establishment, I would not think the best way to go about this is by asking the dancer to do it for me by stuffing it into her costume.

I don't even eat at restaurants where staff has to pool and equally split their tips if I can help it.

Ok, before everyone gets on our professional high horses, bring out the fairness card and gets all worked up about this situation.

Explore the following...
Not all dancers pay taxes, so they are breaking the law already there.
Not all dancers declare their earnings from the dance, so they are breaking the law there.
Not all restaurants we work at have entertainment lisences, so they are breaking the law there.
When we work at restaurants that do not have their lisences in order - we are essentially assisting the restaurant with breaking the laws.

As long as there are dancers available to dance in spite of these arguments - it's up to each dancer's wallet and integrity to say yes or no to dancing at such places/dancing in public.

Most well established places and dance scenes have rules of conduct and unwritten laws of how professional behavior and handling is conducted. However, San Diego has for many years just had a bunch of dancers that were willing to undercut each other in one way or another, the owners didnt know what a house dancer was - or is, owners dont stay loyal to the house dancers, house dancers dont stay loyal to the restaurants, nobody gets paid well. THUS, the tip becomes an issue.

In a perfect world:
Each restaurant has a house dancer/scheduler
All dancers get along and everyone hired gets to stay on schedule.
All dancers get paid well enough to not have to worry about the tip.
All dancer issues are communicated to the restaurant owner through the house dancer/scheduler.
All owners trust their house dancer's/scheduler's taste.
All dancers declared their earnings.
All dancers paid taxes.
All restaurants had their entertainment lisences in order.
All parties behaved in a professional manner.
All dancers were required to hold a certification verifying ability and professional conduct.
All owners had to have a management degree.

I could go on?

I see the point of being upset about this issue, however:
1. the owners have never owned a restaurant before
2. there are 3 owners
3. the owners and the house scheduler will work things out over time - but for now, there are issues.
4. the restaurant has barely been open for 2 months.
5. just about any dancer would love to "be the dancer" at this place.
6. the owners have way over-extended their investment, expenses and budget in relation to location, economy and so forth.

I've been advicing the house dancer at said place as a peer and professional colleague. We got your back, girls. Just let things fall into place. There are MANY other things that are more important to attend than who gets to keep the tip.

Frankly, if it's not worth your while to dance somewhere for the pay you get without the tip - then you shouldnt dance there. So, lets start working on getting the pay raised so we dont have to worry about the tip.

Originally Posted by david

Frankly, if it's not worth your while to dance somewhere for the pay you get without the tip - then you shouldnt dance there. So, lets start working on getting the pay raised so we dont have to worry about the tip.

I don't recall this being said or implied and I'm certain that the majority of bhuzzers I've heard from have the philosophy that tip is always extra on the minimum pay, not the thing that makes it worth it.

I also don't see how the fact that some dancers might break tax laws has anything to do with tipping. I pay my taxes, so what does that mean? Do I need to bring my return to the owner to be allowed to keep the money that was handed to me?

Or are you referring to the point people made about laws potentially being broken there. B/c even then, that some people might be breaking laws somewhere does not excuse me from breaking the law too.

Maybe I'm missing the point. If this is a specific restaurant you're referring to, then sure, we don't know all the inside info, but generally speaking, there's no excuse anyone keeping someone else's tips.

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

I don't recall this being said or implied and I'm certain that the majority of bhuzzers I've heard from have the philosophy that tip is always extra on the minimum pay, not the thing that makes it worth it.

I also don't see how the fact that some dancers might break tax laws has anything to do with tipping. I pay my taxes, so what does that mean? Do I need to bring my return to the owner to be allowed to keep the money that was handed to me?

Or are you referring to the point people made about laws potentially being broken there. B/c even then, that some people might be breaking laws somewhere does not excuse me from breaking the law too.

Maybe I'm missing the point. If this is a specific restaurant you're referring to, then sure, we don't know all the inside info, but generally speaking, there's no excuse anyone keeping someone else's tips.

I'm not saying that it's right to keep anyone's tip. I'm not saying it's right to have to share at all. I'm saying that if something is being done illegally by others/you - there is little we can do by waiving legalities and laws at them/others, if you know what I mean?

The reference was made to a specific establishment. I'm not saying anything is done illegally, but - as far as I know, there are many issues at hand and the tip-sharing is only a minor part of it in this case.

There is essentially an effort to getting house dancers their rightful place at this and other establishments in town. Which means that we are working from the bottom up...getting the owners in on the idea, getting the dancers familiar with the idea. The "chain of command" has been broken in town for so long that there is a whole generation of dancers that essentially dont know how to deal with restaurant owners, house dancers and so forth. We're working to change this. Starting with having the house dancer being entrusted enough to schedule dancers him/herself without the owner's feeling the need to "audition" dancers weekly. The owners have good intentions, so do the dancers, we just need to work on getting things to flow well for all of us.

the owner/s might not be aware of the law... I think it would be fair to let them know, then they can decide if those tips are worth it...

Originally Posted by david

I'm not saying that it's right to keep anyone's tip. I'm not saying it's right to have to share at all. I'm saying that if something is being done illegally by others/you - there is little we can do by waiving legalities and laws at them/others, if you know what I mean?

[...]

Yeah, that makes sense. I mistook what you intended to say by bringing up the tax fraud. And something to consider too is that, depending on the place, the owners might be aware that there is virtually no penalty for breaking that law and won't care. It's a health code violation for us to dance w/o shoes in a restaurant, but many are not concerned with that law b/c they know it's very likely there will be no punishment.

Even still, it's smart for a concerned dancer to bring the law to the attention of everyone. At least then you'll know whether it's being ignored intentionally or not.

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

Yeah, that makes sense. I mistook what you intended to say by bringing up the tax fraud. And something to consider too is that, depending on the place, the owners might be aware that there is virtually no penalty for breaking that law and won't care. It's a health code violation for us to dance w/o shoes in a restaurant, but many are not concerned with that law b/c they know it's very likely there will be no punishment.

Even still, it's smart for a concerned dancer to bring the law to the attention of everyone. At least then you'll know whether it's being ignored intentionally or not.

....or you get switched out for a less "troublesome" dancer.....c::

Originally Posted by david

....or you get switched out for a less "troublesome" dancer.....c::

..l;, It wouldn't be the first time!

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

..l;, It wouldn't be the first time!

LMAO ..l;,

Thankfully I pay my taxes and I have license even insurance, I was also requested to have license by one of the restaurant...
So after all the trouble I hope this establishment will be successfull and the house dancer will be able to get the dancers pay fair amount and also not to share the tips.
Dancing for tipping is not acceptable of course, we should get fair amount so we dont depend on tips, but if there is tip, the whole subject is basically about, should it be shared? ever happened to you? and what would you do?

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

Thankfully I pay my taxes and I have license even insurance, I was also requested to have license by one of the restaurant...
So after all the trouble I hope this establishment will be successfull and the house dancer will be able to get the dancers pay fair amount and also not to share the tips.
Dancing for tipping is not acceptable of course, we should get fair amount so we dont depend on tips, but if there is tip, the whole subject is basically about, should it be shared? ever happened to you? and what would you do?

:) I love how you always have your things in order :)

The tip shouldn't be shared at all. However, it is hard to implement that when the tradition, practice and habit is that the tip is shared at some places.

What I would do is talk to the owner - or the house dancer if there was one and depend on the house dancer to have my back on it. The house dancer is suppose to have the dancer's back - but also maintain the working relationship with the establishment, which at times can be a multifaceted situation to deal with and many things come into consideration. The house dancer can only do his/her job well if there is 100% trust invested from the owners, however.

There isn't really much else one can do...

well...I did not know most things at the begining as self employment is quite different than just working for a company and getting my taxes taken care and everything, but had to learn after being asked.
yes you are right about the trust.
If the house dancer makes fair deals with them and put her foot down and protect the dancers in the community, and also we should as a community to stick together and protect each other as well...

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

well...I did not know most things at the begining as self employment is quite different than just working for a company and getting my taxes taken care and everything, but had to learn after being asked.
yes you are right about the trust.
If the house dancer makes fair deals with them and put her foot down and protect the dancers in the community, and also we should as a community to stick together and protect each other as well...

:) yes, which in this case - I believe she is doing her best to do that.

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

I am glad we share the same opinion...I am not the only one...i hope somone do something about it soon.

Why not write an article to your local paper, but frame it in context with other entertainment/service industry people? Interview waitresses or bartenders, and other people who perform in restaurants, not just bellydancers.

OMG, it is so TACKEY to ask the dancer to split tips.
How low.

Hi!

In Germany, this is not usual (by the way: arabs are arabs, it makes no difference if they live in Germany or US or elsewhere!)

You could ask the waiter and waitresses if they are willed to share THEIR tips with you!

KR
Salma

Just as a side note.
I, too have an official business name, separate bank account and pay my taxes. I'm certified to teach and have insurance.
BUT, in this area we do not need a performers license.
In some counties the VENUE needs a license to have live performers. But all the places where I work that needs one has one. Important stuff to research. :)

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

Whichever brave soul bring sit up with the owner might want to print out the codes and speak "out of concern for the owner" and also "because you know he wants to do the right thing"

I second the motion!!!

ok, so I thought I revive this old thread.

No, the house dancer has not done anything to improve the situation. She asked me if I wanted to dance there, about 6-9 months ago, of course it was in the way of: come by Monday night, when we have free auditions, bring your costume, dance and I'll get you on the schedule. I told her I don't do that, never have, never will.
But I out of curiosity I brought up the pay, which is set slightly lower than the standard, and the fact that body tipping (and all tipping) gets shared with the restaurant. At my suggestion to change things, she specifically told me, that she is not going to put her foot down, because they already had one dancer there before her, who did and she's no longer there, and she wants to dance there!! ok....

So last night I went to hang out, I haven't been there since August, and the live music is really nice, I've missed it. I went after my show, which was 10 minutes from there. I went, had a drink and appetizers and enjoyed the music.
The musicians know me, so I'm sure they told one of the owners that I dance, I have never mentioned, but of course we are friends on facebook, so they probably know / remember.

At 11 pm the owner pulls me off the dance floor when I was doing debke with the ladies, and asked if I had my costume, because the dancer is not there. I told him yes.

I also told him how much I charge, which is higher than what they pay. He agreed, and we had a discussion about the tips. I told him no one will touch the money that is in my costume. He agreed. Although the crowd loved it and was into it, I guess they were not in a tipping mood, but either way I have set it straight - at least for me.
So yes, it can be done, especially if they come to you, and you're not the one going, asking to dance.

Of course the house dancer is pissed, because she thought I went there asking to dance.

If they are asking for tip percentages it's time to find another place to dance, especially with base pay being what it is. Don't give up your tips to anyone (but yes I can see tipping out a live band).

Now with go go we are required to tip out our dj but my dj also plays music that I like from my ipod so he gets extra. Of course with go go I'm also averaging $300-$500 a night in tips so 10% of that isn't too bad..

well, I'm not even dancing there. If they call me, that's great, if not, oh well. And I got paid what I asked for, so I feel good about that.

Originally Posted by SamarDahab

but the pay was kinda high so I didn't complain. By the end of the night I had made about $200 including tips for one 15 minute show. They cut the second show since the tips weren't that high.

So basically, they were subsidizing their entertainment budget through the tips.

When I first started performing in restaurants, I worked at a place where the guarantee was $50. They paid the difference between whatever tips I received and $50 (this was NOT my setup and was one of my first paid gigs). I thought this was BS back then, and it's BS now.

Originally Posted by Marianna

ok, so I thought I revive this old thread.

No, the house dancer has not done anything to improve the situation. She asked me if I wanted to dance there, about 6-9 months ago, of course it was in the way of: come by Monday night, when we have free auditions, bring your costume, dance and I'll get you on the schedule. I told her I don't do that, never have, never will.
But I out of curiosity I brought up the pay, which is set slightly lower than the standard, and the fact that body tipping (and all tipping) gets shared with the restaurant. At my suggestion to change things, she specifically told me, that she is not going to put her foot down, because they already had one dancer there before her, who did and she's no longer there, and she wants to dance there!! ok....

So last night I went to hang out, I haven't been there since August, and the live music is really nice, I've missed it. I went after my show, which was 10 minutes from there. I went, had a drink and appetizers and enjoyed the music.
The musicians know me, so I'm sure they told one of the owners that I dance, I have never mentioned, but of course we are friends on facebook, so they probably know / remember.

At 11 pm the owner pulls me off the dance floor when I was doing debke with the ladies, and asked if I had my costume, because the dancer is not there. I told him yes.

I also told him how much I charge, which is higher than what they pay. He agreed, and we had a discussion about the tips. I told him no one will touch the money that is in my costume. He agreed. Although the crowd loved it and was into it, I guess they were not in a tipping mood, but either way I have set it straight - at least for me.
So yes, it can be done, especially if they come to you, and you're not the one going, asking to dance.

Of course the house dancer is pissed, because she thought I went there asking to dance.

Good for you Marianna!

just now noticed it was an old thread and what i said was redundant..... carry on :-)

There is another restaurant that wanted to do that and the dancers all stood up and said No, I won't dance there and cancelled their dates. I wasa sure this thread would be about that but it seems this has become a common practice by owners these days.

Theoretically -
Dancers should stick together. If everyone is "troublesome", then the owner is not going to find another dancer. Or maybe he will just find someone with 1 bellydance class and a costume, but his customers won't be happy with that.

OK this is completely my point...as a community we are not working together cause there are dancers are desperate and will not stick to their values as getting that standard rate and no sharing the tips...so the owner will go back to those previous dancers and save $10 here and there...
isnt that sad!

Unfortunately there are dancers who would accept those circumstances, but also a lot of us would not.
It is really funny the way it worked out, because I was planning on going last week, but they had a private event so I went now. And this specific night the dancer was late because she was coming from Mexico.

I am not even counting on them calling me, if they do great, but they might stick with the dancers who would accept less.

A few years ago an owner called me from a hookah lounge (this was actually in 2005, and I told him how much I charged, which was $10 more than what he payed. He tried to negotiate it down, I wouldn't let him. Then he said ok, but please don't tell others. I didn't. I danced there 3 times, then he didn't call, and I heard that because he didn't want some of his favorite dancers there to find out he was paying me more.
I didn't care, for me it was about the principal. About a year or 2 later he called me again and I danced there for a while. And guess what: by that time he raised his compensation to what I was asking for.
The key is not to get desperate. I didn't care that I didn't dance there for a year or so, there are so many other places. But owners / people remember you and respect you for sticking to your values.

I sent an email to the house dancer so she can't assume the worst. She's pissed and thinks I am in the wrong. She said I should have told her out of courtesy that I was going to the restaurant. WTF? I have to announce to her that I am going to have dinner???

i wish that no one would dance there. becuase there is no other resturant where we are that does that. the other thing most of the dancers are coming from mexico and maybe this is good pay for them so they are willing to do that. it is up to the house dancer to put her foot down and maybe lose her job because of it but if no one will work there then she could change things.