Thread: What do you think of auditioning for FREE???

Do you audition for a restaurant job FREE?
I would not at this moment...maybe if I was new where nobody really knows me much.
I would refer to my website, videos, other dancers and most importantly other establishments who they can give reference about me.

Not if it's in front of customers. If it were an audition at an "off" time where it's just the owner, the scheduler and maybe one or two more people, I wouldn't have a problem with it if I wanted the job.

ETA - I see it as okay because most other people in the entertainment industry don't get paid auditions. They do get better pay than we do and contracts (usually), but auditions aren't often paid.

I have auditioned for a restaurant gig once. I went in the middle of the afternoon, before the doors opened for dinner. The only folks there were the owner, who auditioned me, and my daughter who, although she was a child, provided an escort for me. Well, there might have been somebody in the kitchen . . . .

I did full make-up, hair, and costume, and danced about 8 minutes (I think). It was enough to show I could do fast, slow and drum solo and that my technical skills were solid.

I would never audition during the dinner hour for free.

Deborah

if its a real audition - short sample of performance, not in front of regular audience/patrons
i see no problem with it

During regular business hours - no.
During off hours - yes.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by MaryRaks

Not if it's in front of customers. If it were an audition at an "off" time where it's just the owner, the scheduler and maybe one or two more people, I wouldn't have a problem with it if I wanted the job.

ETA - I see it as okay because most other people in the entertainment industry don't get paid auditions. They do get better pay than we do and contracts (usually), but auditions aren't often paid.

I think it depends on where you live and what the norm is there. Usually I say don't do an unpaid audition, however if it's during an off time than why not?

Unfortunately I'm not asw versed a everyone else when it comes to paying gigs. I did audition for a restaurant owner, in front of customers, with another scheduled dancer for free. I supposedly got the gig but he never returned emails or calls for putting me on the schedule. I gave up on him awhile ago since it wasn't worth the 1.5 hour drive to dance for someone who couldn't respond to schedulig inquiries. I count it as a learning experience

Dilek has someone asked this of you?
Beware! Of course we should never do a show for free! Audition for the owner without customers there is fine, but that's it.

no Barbara,
nobody asked me to audition....I wont do an audition for free, even for 5minutes...I have videos, resume, references....pay me I will dance for you, and if you dont like me that is fine...you dont have to schedule me again. That is how I see it.

I would audition for a 5 min song not while paid costumes are in the resturant though. And yes there is video and they can call other owners of resturants where Iwork for refrances. like you said If the wanted me to dance then they can pay me . and then decided if they wanted to hire me again. we have to have respect for our selves for others to respcet us and also i invest time and money in my classes and costumes. Dancers do not want to have a big ego but have confidance and people are attracted to that but if the owners ego is to big to handle others confidance then maybe it is not a place I would want to dance anyway?

Originally Posted by poohbear

Unfortunately I'm not asw versed a everyone else when it comes to paying gigs. I did audition for a restaurant owner, in front of customers, with another scheduled dancer for free. I supposedly got the gig but he never returned emails or calls for putting me on the schedule. I gave up on him awhile ago since it wasn't worth the 1.5 hour drive to dance for someone who couldn't respond to schedulig inquiries. I count it as a learning experience

I think I know about where you are talking about. I have herd of people going there to audtion for free i do not know if he askes you to or the dancers volunter to dance for free?
Go to a resturant with confidance it does not matter who else dances there you have to have confidance in your self and your abliltys. And if you are dancing during a usually paid performace you need to get paid beacuse you are entertaining and it is undercutting the paid dancers. I learn lessons as well. it is better to fin out sooner then later. Also they will respect you if they have to pay you .they will take advantage of you if you dance for free.
I wish the best for you. If you feel you are ready then then you are ready to get paid.

If it was in front of a live crowd, like a gig, that your just not getting paid for, then no! if the scene was closed off, i would, cause its just an audition. I've done that before just with the band and the owners and a couple of people.

I would try to give them references, videos, etc. If they insisted, then maybe if its a really off peak time - like Tuesday lunch.
Too often they just want free Fri. night entertainment. They can fill up a good month or two by auditioning "lots" of people.

Mahin

Originally Posted by MahinS

I would try to give them references, videos, etc. If they insisted, then maybe if its a really off peak time - like Tuesday lunch.
Too often they just want free Fri. night entertainment. They can fill up a good month or two by auditioning "lots" of people.

Mahin

Yes. I think Artemis and Aunt Rocky BOTH cautioned against this in their articles.

The way I see it? Look at my gallery, videos and testimonials. I mean, actually LOOK at them. Hire me once. If you like me, hire me back. If you don't, then hire somebody else.

I hate the idea of somebody calling me in for free during my billable hours just so they can size me up in costume.

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

Do you audition for a restaurant job FREE?
I would not at this moment...maybe if I was new where nobody really knows me much.
I would refer to my website, videos, other dancers and most importantly other establishments who they can give reference about me.

Like others have said---
I've auditioned in the off hours with just the owners, staff etc present. It's like a 'real' job interview that way with you providing them the answers to their questions (Can you dance? Do you have a good personality? Do you have a professional demeanor?).

I don't think I've heard of a free performance as an audtion.

Kind of different, I know - but I've also known a couple of teachers who ask their students to come along when they're performing somewhere, so they can pull them up to dance and see if the owner likes them or not.

Even that doesn't strike me as an optimal situation, because there's a world of difference to me between a dancer in full costume, picking her own music, and wowing a crowd with her props and flashy moves, and a dancer in nice street clothes busting a move with her friend for 30 seconds.

I did this once and the teacher accused me of "outdancing" her, because I felt a nice juicy hip circle would fit the music ,r:;

I really think the only way to get a TRUE feel for a dancer's performance style is to get her to perform in a real situation. Even Tuesday brunch isn't the same. Some dancers (myself included) thrive on good energy and can throw down when there's a full house, versus putting on a good (but not over the top spectacular) show for a tiny crowd.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Kind of different, I know - but I've also known a couple of teachers who ask their students to come along when they're performing somewhere, so they can pull them up to dance and see if the owner likes them or not.
.

I don't know, I think that trying to get gigs that way seems like it would perpetuate the idea that we're not really professionals; I mean, can you imagine that happening in the context of ballet or any kind of singing?

Ok, here is what I see as the problem here in San Diego and it doesnt seem to be exclusive to one place or another...the owners of these places have been very used to paying very very little for dancers and the dancers have more or less accepted it with the restaurants. I think many times, the dancer thinks she or he may get other gigs fom the place or perhaps tips and it makes it worth while. Others are simply living out their inner belly dance fantasy, buy the 600.00 costume and think they are pros. There are more dancers than places to dance and the owners know this too plus many of the ME owners dont really care if dancer is good or not (honestly I very much doubt that they look much past the costume and recognize ability) That opens the door for inexperienced dancers who are hungry to dance somewhere and will dance for free. Us old warhorses dont do that anymore unless we choose to donate our time and know the circumstances ahead of time. Now, how many teachers actually teach their students that its NOT ok to be used as entertainment in a for-profit venue and not get at least a dinner or something? They see their friends having fun, getting attention and wearing sparkles and want to be part of it all.
I dont understand the SD mindset of thinking that a restaurant is THE goal to strive for in this dance but many seem to feel that way. Restaurant work is ok but it is just one aspect of performances.
This particular place that is newley opened in San Diego seems to be really pushing the envelope with what they want the dancers to do for nothing. I predict that this place will most likely go the way of most ME places, closed in a few months or have a mysterious restaurant fire just after upping their fire insurance policy.
Hopefully, the SD dance scene will learn from this OR hope against hope, the owner will get a clue about keeping good dancers in his place.

I agree with Dilek and SatinWorship about hiring me once, if you dont like me, hire someone else.
Now, lets teach our students this too.
I would hate to see the "Free Audition" become a common thing.

Originally Posted by Candide

I don't know, I think that trying to get gigs that way seems like it would perpetuate the idea that we're not really professionals; I mean, can you imagine that happening in the context of ballet or any kind of singing?

I see this happen in singing alot

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I see this happen in singing alot

Sorry, let me clarify- it's not the free vs. paid thing, I meant that rather than doing a formal audition, students are kind of trotted out in this really informal, spontaneous way that strikes me as odd. Kind of like doing a job interview when you were out to lunch with people who happened to work for a company.

Incidentally, has anybody read The Compleat Bellydancer? I *believe* this is the book that recommends showing up to another dancer's gig in nice streetwear and getting up to dance without clearing it with anyone first as an "audition". I need to dig out my copy to see if it actually said, "And don't forget your zills." or if I just imagined that part.

How odd that they'd recommend this in a book...please let me know if you dig it out.

I have a friend/former teacher who always offers to take me along on gigs for this purpose. While I'm sure her intentions are good, it's a little weird on a couple of levels. One, getting up to boogie with my friend is not indicative whatsoever of my stage persona and presentation - just how well I can dance socially. Two, if her intention is to be my advocate, why can't she talk to the owner and see if he'd be amenable to hiring me for a trial show on an off night, or for a mini-set to open for her?

ITA with Candide that this tactic can potentially backfire on a dancer's professionalism.

Just can't believe that people are still falling for the free audition...seems to me like the oldest trick in the book.

I am too lazy to type it all out right now, but I found the passage on page 155 of "The Compleat (sic) Belly Dancer" by Julie Russo Mishkin and Marta Schill.

They talk about a student dancer going to a restaurant and club in their city to watch dancing, if possible, and say that it is common and often encouraged for both male and female members of the audience to get up and dance. They say it is okay for you to do so after you have been there for a while, but to "make sure it's not the professional dancer's turn", and "not to get too carried away with dramatic bends and such". They say to dress nice and comfortable, but not to wear a costume. They do end the passage with "tuck your finger cymbals into your purse".

There are some problematic elements with this book in other places (IMO, and with the benefit of hindsight), but this section is pretty innocuous. To put it in context, it comes at the very end and there are offering the reader advice on where to put her moves together. They start with a one-woman show for the family and move on to the idea of dancing for and with women friends. Then they suggest trying to wrangle an invite to an "ethnic" (specifically Armenian) wedding, and finally suggest going to an "ethnic" club (the part I paraphrase above). The follow up is a recommendation to really watch the musicians, since that is the heart of what drives the dance.

Originally Posted by Monica

I am too lazy to type it all out right now, but I found the passage on page 155 of "The Compleat (sic) Belly Dancer" by Julie Russo Mishkin and Marta Schill.

There are some problematic elements with this book in other places (IMO, and with the benefit of hindsight), but this section is pretty innocuous.

You beat me to the punch! I just dug out my copy, and yeah, it was better than I remembered. It wasn't really in the context of trying to find a gig, but in just finding places to enjoy dancing in 1973.

Originally Posted by Monica

"The Compleat (sic) Belly Dancer" by Julie Russo Mishkin and Marta Schill.

Yeah, I've always wondered what was up with the "Uneek & Cree8tive" spelling of this book title......c::

"Compleat" means "total," or, when describing a profession, "having every skill necessary to the craft". In other words, "The Quintessential Belly Dancer" or "The Epitome of a Belly Dancer".

It was originally an alternate spelling of our better-known "complete," but the meanings of the two words diverged slightly at some point. Another famous use of the word is in the title of the play "The Compleat Works of Wllm Shkspr (Abridged)".

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa???

Who knew?!

Thanks for the geek trivia of the day, Ainsley! And I considered myself to be the ultimate linguistics freak ..l;,

No problem! The compleat vocabulary geek at your service. ..g.:



I agree that a teacher getting students up to dance during his/her own show is a problematic way to audition them, in large part because I've always understood it to be poor etiquette to try to outdo the performing dancer if you're invited up to dance with them. But of course, to get a job at the venue, that's exactly what you'd have to do. Either way, it sounds like it would be an uncomfortable situation for all involved.

Originally Posted by Ainsley

"Compleat" means "total," or, when describing a profession, "having every skill necessary to the craft".

Thanks, Ainsley! I feel like a bad word nerd now. ;)

Originally Posted by Ainsley

I agree that a teacher getting students up to dance during his/her own show is a problematic way to audition them, in large part because I've always understood it to be poor etiquette to try to outdo the performing dancer if you're invited up to dance with them. But of course, to get a job at the venue, that's exactly what you'd have to do. Either way, it sounds like it would be an uncomfortable situation for all involved.

Right. You want to show the owners that you can be a star. Either you throw down and get the job - and possibly end up on your teacher's black list, or you dance demurely as would be appropriate, and wow the owner with your ability to be, well, totally unobtrusive.

Just speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if it might be a territorial "alpha female" thing on the teacher's part. They want to give their students and friends opportunities, but a part of them also secretly wants to make it known that they're Queen Bee.

Or most likely, in most cases, it's probably 100% benevolent - but misguided.

Either way, the underlying social etiquette really hinders any fair measure of the "guest" dancer's talent. I think the best way to audition your students or introduce your friends to your venue is to talk the owner into booking them once on an off night, or having them open for you. Let them shine, let them do their thing - and don't get all "weirdness" about it.