Thread: House Dancer/Scheduler...related questions...

I like to get some ideas/information on how this subject handled in your area:

I am interested in knowing (and more you can add):
1. What some of the responsibilities of the house dancer?
2. How the restaurant/house dancer handles the new dancers move into the area? (related; if the new dancer wants to audition and owner calls you and asks you to change the schedule)
3. What happens if the new dancer (s) charges less than established dancers?
4. How would you approach if the house dancer has student troupe dancing in the restaurant (s) and restaurant pays less than any other restaurant in the area?
5. How would you succeed to increase the rate in your area (would house dancers agree with an ongoing rate increase?) if the rate being the same for years...
6. What if there are restaurants in your area that pay a lot of less than others, and house dancer (s) like to increase this or is there ongoing crisis in your area?
and more you can think of....

also I like to ask:
if you have any type of policy/rules of accepting new dancers to the restaurant that is put together between the house dancer and restaurant owner

I have limited experience but I'll answer what I can.

1) House dancer is in charge of all scheduling. It's ultimately her responsibility to make sure someone's there on time every night, and two dancers on busy nights. House dancer may also head up a showcase, and will be in charge of promotion (may receive per-head kickbacks). Also in charge of dancer communications and making sure all dancers' performances are appropriate.

2) Not an issue because auditions are not done at the same time as dancers that are working, but the house dancer has a lot of say in who is hired.

3) New dancers are offered the same rate as everyone else (I'm not sure what would happen if they said they'd work for less anyway!)

4) I don't know what could be done about this, except maybe boycotting the restaurant on a personal level?

5) Not sure, but I would think it would be up to the house dancer to negotiate a new rate across the board for all the dancers.

6) If the house dancer is really serious about raising rates, she would have to stick to her guns. Get more pay, or walk and let someone else work for less.

Hey Dilek talk to my friend Rachel George she's done this very thing for years. Also Samira Shuruk from Baltimore/DC, Shems from Baltimore/DC, Amartia from Baltimore/DC, Shamsi from Baton Rouge & Kryss from New Orleans are good people to talk to about this very thing too.

Here's my thoughts from working in New Orleans, DC & Baltimore:
I am interested in knowing (and more you can add):
1. What some of the responsibilities of the house dancer?
**Scheduling, setting up auditions for new dancers, Staff meetings for the working dancers (if possible), negotiating a pay rate that the same or above what the current going rate is for the area... unless the pros working for them are expected to negotiate their own pay rates, always communicating in a professional and clear manner to the dancers she schedules, maintaining the status quo and being a positive professional leader & role model

2. How the restaurant/house dancer handles the new dancers move into the area? (related; if the new dancer wants to audition and owner calls you and asks you to change the schedule)
By welcoming the new dancer, offering information, answering questions not being evasive or not truthful, accommodating the owner's requests (within reason) if they want the new person on the schedule.

Also let the new person know who the scheduling house dancers are at all of the available places in town. Let them know if there is a 'waiting list' to get in or a hierarchy...if it's realistic for them to start off as a sub dancer & then work their way up into a regular spot as they open up. Really at the end of the day it's the restaurant owners who calls the shots & we are their employees.

3. What happens if the new dancer (s) charges less than established dancers?
Educate the new dancers on what the going rates are, be open, clear & inclusive about that from the get go.

4. How would you approach if the house dancer has student troupe dancing in the restaurant (s) and restaurant pays less than any other restaurant in the area?
I wouldn't approach it. It's not worth my time if there are other places in the area to dance in unless it's affecting the other working pro's in the area.

5. How would you succeed to increase the rate in your area (would house dancers agree with an ongoing rate increase?) if the rate being the same for years...
Collaborate with the other professionals in the area to raise the rate of pay - working together always is better than independently.

6. What if there are restaurants in your area that pay a lot of less than others, and house dancer (s) like to increase this or is there ongoing crisis in your area?
Rates of pay always vary from place to place. I think it's more important that everyone working together either is paid fairly (the same) or is allowed to negotiate their own pay rate. Usually the pay rate is a set thing though.

and more you can think of....

Contracts are a good thing too.

I am interested in knowing (and more you can add):
1. What some of the responsibilities of the house dancer?
There are different definitions and different situations.
*At one venue I am the only dancer. I guess that makes me the house dancer there. I get my own sub, approved by the owner.
*At a couple other venues I share with one other dancer (different dancers). We cooperate about schedule. I've generally been the one to discuss rates and raises because I've known the various owners longest.
*We have a couple venues where the owner makes the schedule.
*We have a few venues where one dancer makes the schedule. The professional way to go about this is to abide by the owners wishes as to who he/she wants on the schedule, while advocating for fair treatment and pay for the dancers.

2. How the restaurant/house dancer handles the new dancers move into the area? (related; if the new dancer wants to audition and owner calls you and asks you to change the schedule)
*first, ask the owner if he wants her on the schedule (if it was the dancer who told you, the scheduler). Trust me on this one.
*If the owner asked you (the scheduler) then- well, if he's reasonable he'll wait until the next scheduling period or add her to the sub list. If he wants her on then and there, someone unfortunately will be SOL. Smart owners won't screw over their regular reliable dancers like this.

3. What happens if the new dancer (s) charges less than established dancers?
*someone new comes in and undercuts? I'd share rates with her. I'd also start looking elsewhere for a job, quite frankly. Sure, the owner has the right to hire the cheaper dancer. I have the right to look for the owner who respects me and understands that I run a business as well.

4. How would you approach if the house dancer has student troupe dancing in the restaurant (s) and restaurant pays less than any other restaurant in the area?
*I leave it alone. All the pros in the area know it's going on. If the teacher is working to change it- awesome! Give her all the support he/she needs. If the teacher knows better and doesn't care to make the effort - I don't need that lack of professionalism in my life because the owners will be "trained" by this sort of behavior and any pros coming in after her will have to deal with fighting his learned tendencies. I'll seek positive venues elsewhere.

...

5. How would you succeed to increase the rate in your area (would house dancers agree with an ongoing rate increase?) if the rate being the same for years...
*here in DC the rates were the same for FIFTEEN years. We started a (pro dancer only) yahoo group for discussions. Lucy did actually. Doing so cost her a job (temporarily). On the forum start doing the math- inflation rates, cost of living increase, changes in the business (a house dancer used to work 5 or 6 nights a week at one place and make a living, it's not like that now). Figure out where your rates should be. Most of the larger metropolitan areas are at or around MINIMUM party rates of $200/show (in DC, Baltimore and NYC we're working a good bit higher) and working towards minimum venue rates of $100/show. Still working on that though. We've come SO far, but due to well, undercutters, and teacher sending students out too soon, it's a long hard uphill battle.

6. What if there are restaurants in your area that pay a lot of less than others, and house dancer (s) like to increase this or is there ongoing crisis in your area?
and more you can think of....
Start an online forum. Talk about it. Talk about it without blame, from a positive point of view in terms of "we are worth more...I know you want more to invest back in your dance...we bring business in...we have business expenses... this art deserved to be respected etc"
Also, personally, start charging more. Once you're in a place, if it's one where dancers negotiate their own rates- ask for more.
Some places pay everyone the same all across the board. Realistically however- some dancers have been there longer, some might bring in more people or might be a better fit for that venues customers. They might be able to get more. I think this is perfectly fine, AS LONG AS no one new comes in at under the average rate at that venue and definitely not under the established local "minimum" suggested.
If you get offered another gig- negotiate higher than at the other. When you leave the first one- tell them nicely "I wish I could stay, but the other place is paying more..." this will help pave the way for rate increases down the road for those remaining dancers.
Think long term community. Communicate long term community. Act long term community. ..g.:

thanks awesome answers...

Haha Dilek - how wonderful that you are so ahead of yourself on this.

OK, guys, *I* am starting an effort to involve our local dancers in a *local* discussion about the etiquette and conduct in our *local* dance scene. Essentially - I am taking the steps Lucy took in WDC - but in San Diego and with an in-person debate rather than a yahoo discussion group. This is what's bringing forth all these questions.

Dilek - please focus your efforts locally? Our meeting is not THAT far away. July 12.
thanks

1. What some of the responsibilities of the house dancer?

Just performing, unless she's agreed to do scheduling as well.

2. How the restaurant/house dancer handles the new dancers move into the area? (related; if the new dancer wants to audition and owner calls you and asks you to change the schedule)

The owner of the restaurant gets to run his/her place, so you do what he/she asks. Only if a new dancer approaches you instead of the owners directly can you really have much of a say. If you have a good relationship with the owner, you might suggest he/she allow you to act as a gateway, in advance, to keep the trash out and save them the hassle and embarrassment. If you have already established this understanding then the owner might just send new inquiries to you.

3. What happens if the new dancer (s) charges less than established dancers?

The established dancers get pissed off and the community suffers. If I were one of the established dancers I would directly confront the new dancer and discuss the subject and try to rectify the situation. I think each community should have is pay standards and it is the responsibility of each professional dancer to find out what those are and charge accordingly.

4. How would you approach if the house dancer has student troupe dancing in the restaurant (s) and restaurant pays less than any other restaurant in the area?

If you aren't working at that restaurant there isn't much you can do except not patronize that restaurant. You are welcome to talk to the house dancer in question about undercutting and putting students prematurely in a pro-venue, but if she doesn't have a willing ear, you are just out of luck. Or you could try and win over the gig, by offering quality, but that rarely works. Some dancers like to try and embarrass people within the dance community to try to shame them into good behavior. This has it's pros and cons.

5. How would you succeed to increase the rate in your area (would house dancers agree with an ongoing rate increase?) if the rate being the same for years...

Create a closed professional dance community forum to discuss and set recommended rates and future goals. Discuss ongoing pay raises with restaurant owners so they know in advance you will expect raises. Ask for incremental raises on an ongoing basis.

6. What if there are restaurants in your area that pay a lot of less than others, and house dancer (s) like to increase this or is there ongoing crisis in your area?

If you can't get the other dancers in the community to respect themselves and their art enough to want reasonable compensation, you have to do your best to maintain your own personal standard, not always easy to do.

Good Luck.

I wrote my answers without reading everybody else. They've been more detailed, so I feel cool that this is covered for you.

Hi everyone.

Dilek - thank you for posting these questions - I know you are only trying to be informed and stay in the loop of thing - and I know that you are trying to help. However, there are some really experienced resources that are being brought in for our new efforts from the local dance scene that are familiar with the conditions and circumstances of the local dance scene. Please, lets trust ourselves in our local dance scene to handle the order of which and how things are handled. We are a great bunch of smart people - and I wouldnt have bothered to take the step to start a local dialogue if I didnt believe that we professionals in San Diego could handle matters on our own with our own local resources. Please trust the project :)

Thank you everyone for giving such great insight to what is happening in your areas - with your conditions, circumstances, market, enviroment, type of patrons and businesses where you are at. Just keep in mind that every city is different and all the advice that has been given thus far is based on very different conditions and circumstances than what we have in the San Diego market and San Diego as a city.

Thank you. I am making this effort volunteerly by the way and all performing dancers in San Diego have been very positive to the effort. I am currently working on getting a website up and running for our "group"..which has been named the San Diego Professional Bellydancer's Resource Network.

I look forward to rapport back with our success story in the future - youm minn el ayam (one of these days). however, please have patience with us while we give our dance scene a face lift :)

Based on what I've seen of rates in and stories of the CA scene, you have some challenges but you also have lots of REALLY REALLY strong professionals who can work together to raise things up for everyone.
I hope and pray you don't have a local equivalent to She Who Will Remain Nameless (AKA self proclaimed "one and only authentic teacher in America" of Sacremento)...but if you DO have other similar people, take heart. We've got 'em here, too and yet with hard work we have created change.
Realistically, there will be people supporting and following through. There will be people outwardly supporting but practicing otherwise and there will be a few who will get nasty and say essentially "who are YOU to say who can dance and who can't".
In the end no one is pointing to individuals and saying "you can", "you can't". Professionals simply are asked to work towards fair pay and support ethical and professional standards. It's the individuals who inside know they would not qualify or don't work ethically who are the ones who balk at this idea.
I hope the info on this thread has at least brought about the idea that working together can create change over time. All regions are different, but generally speaking we all have similar "players" in the game.
Patience in the process, patience with each other while communicating honestly and working step by step working towards a common goal that benefits everyone is entirely possible. You can do it!

Originally Posted by david

Haha Dilek - how wonderful that you are so ahead of yourself on this.

OK, guys, *I* am starting an effort to involve our local dancers in a *local* discussion about the etiquette and conduct in our *local* dance scene. Essentially - I am taking the steps Lucy took in WDC - but in San Diego and with an in-person debate rather than a yahoo discussion group. This is what's bringing forth all these questions.

Dilek - please focus your efforts locally? Our meeting is not THAT far away. July 12.
thanks

I am just curious what is going on around and want to get more information how others handling this....I dont see anything wrong with this...
I always brought this subject unformally in many discussion forums. I know many dancers already talked about this in Bhuz...so I am just informing myself. Dont worry I am highly concerned in my local surrounding but also want to know the country and the world I live in.
And this is not only about a or the meeting, it is more giving educating myself.
Bhuz is a free discussion forum where all dancers put concerns/questions/comments/events...etc where we share ideas.

also in my questions I try to generalize them, not to mention anything locally...
I am aware each location is different of course it is but as a whole belly dancing world is not really too different.
From what I see from I what I hear after all, I respect to all my dance friends all over the world i know them personally or not, all teachers from all over the world I know them personally or not, have very important information for me.
I usually go with a team work, like my Software experience, we work as a team. I have 10 years experience working in the corporations in the US, so I learnt to give value to everyone's experience and information, therefore for me the more information I get the less side I take and educate my common sense.

Thank you all for all priceless information.

Hi,

My name is Vilia and I'm one of the dancers/schedulers in the San Diego dance scene. I am finding this thread to be very helpful in gaining information on how the biz is handled in other parts of the country/world. David, I'm not sure what your reasoning is in trying to dissuade Dilek from gleaning all of the information she can in preparation for this meeting you have so kindly put together. I doubt that the San Diego dance scene is all that unique from many others around the country in terms of how dancers and restaurant owners work together, and from what I have read and learned so far...I'd say I'm correct in that assumption. Personally, I think it is very proactive and insightful of Dilek to do as much research as possible (local or not) in an effort to present the most up-to-date and educated information possible at our scheduled gathering. I personally have contacted several knowledgeable resources in my own endeavor to bring an informed viewpoint to the table. Thank you all for your insight and I look forward to reading everyone's comments as this thread continues.

think globally. act locally ;)
very valuable discussion.

I'm just going to withdraw from this thread and similar ones until the meeting.

Once you are there - you will understand the reasoning behind what I am saying. The whole purpose of this meeting is for our local dancers to discuss local matters and move on to improve the local dance scene between ourselves and based on the conditions and circumstances of our local enviroment.

Vilia, YES San Diego is that unique.

Thank you for understanding. See you at the meeting.