Thread: Career Stability/Longevity

A few months ago I found out I had a basal cell carcinoma on the tip of my nose...long story short, I had Mohs surgery to remove it two weeks ago, and it turned out to be a lot worse than anyone thought. They actually had to remove some of the cartilage in the tip of my nose because it went down that far (on the surface, it only looked like a teeny tiny little red spot that wouldn't go away). Anyway, the plastic surgeon did a skin graft from another part of my nose to cover the hole, and the healing process is now shaping up to be longer than I had originally anticipated.

Obviously, while this is all going on, i can't gig. No one wants a bellydancer with a bandaged, oozing nose. I'm not even sure how long I'll be out of commission - I had originally budgeted for no gigs the month of May, but that is when I thought I'd only have a few stitches. I figure I am looking at 2-3 months before I can get back out there.

So, in the meantime, I've been teaching. Thank GOD i have a day job, because if I had this sort of injury and BD was my only source of income, I'd be in serious doo-doo right now.

Which leads me to my question/thought of the day....we can't always gig. We can't always be the sexy, pretty, mysterious bellydancer that our clients want/expect us to be. Whether it is because we get older, or we get injured, or become pregnant or something else that affects our appearance.... I think that the amount of time in our lives where we can go out there and be the pro bellydance performer is so short compared to the times we cannot.

In my experience, in the times where I can't get out there and perform, I can still get out there and teach. Because you don't need to "look the part" to teach - you just need to know what you are doing. And that doesn't change despite of what you look like. So, if you really want to be a dancer, make a living off of it (or a substantial part of your income, anyway), do you need to be a teacher as well? I have friends who are amazing dancers, but who just don't like teaching, or don't think they are very good at it so they don't do it. Are they destined for a short dance career?

Is teaching the only way we as dancers can insure that we will be around for the long hall? Those who can't do, teach, right?

What do you think? And don't forget to wear sunscreen!!.p::

Daniela, I saw your pictures at your website and you're beautiful! Don't be worried about the surgery. You'll be fine soon!

Thank you, I hope so!

Well, I'm not a pro dancer or teacher but just wanted to give you a virtual hug and my best wishes for a speedy recovery!

It would seem to make sense that if the dance is your main source of income, you would do well to learn teaching skills. Writing skills, also--perhaps even web site development skills, small-business-coaching skills . . .

The fact is, nobody's safe, really. Sh*t happens to people in all walks of life, and it's a good idea to be able to shift your skills to another arena.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Is teaching the only way we as dancers can insure that we will be around for the long hall? Those who can't do, teach, right?

What else is there? If you want to earn a living off your dancing, then you either have to perform or teach. Performing is self evident--you get up in front of people and entertain them. Teaching could mean that you stand up in front of a classroom of students, or it could mean that you write about the dance, or you collect and edit film footage of dancing, or you design choreographies for others--but the bottom line is that you are passing on your knowledge, experiences, and creative sensibilities to others.

If you aren't worried about the money aspect, you can continue to perform at non-paying dance events as long as your body holds out. Audiences consisting of other dancers rarely have a problem with someone who doesn't fit the bellygram market's job description.

As someone who came to the dance later in life, I struggle with where I am going with this myself. On one hand, I'd love to take off and study the way dancers who go on to be top-name professionals do--traveling to work with master teachers, living overseas, etc., but that isn't realistic for me. My life has other demands on it, and I'm already dealing with early arthritis and joint issues, so I'm not sure my body could take the strain. And even if I could, then what? Spend $30K on cosmetic surgery like Demi Moore did to try to reconstitute a long-lost 20-year-old body so I could compete for gigs against younger dancers (who, while not having the depth and seasoning of age to draw upon, can perform acrobatic tricks that I just don't have the flexibility to pull off any more, to say nothing of looking mighty hot in their costumes...)? Fair or not, performing is primarily a younger person's game.

Sometimes we forget when we point to people like Morocco as an example of what older dancers can achieve in the art form, Morocco didn't start taking classes at the YMCA five years ago. Many of our elder statesmen and -women, earned their positions decades ago, and while that does not diminish the importance of their place in the community now, where they are is not where a middle-aged (or older) beginner can necessarily expect to end up, too. I guess I still feel like I have something artistic to contribute, but I am resigned to knowing it will be from the floor at a local hafla, and not the stage at the Cairo Semiramis.

There are probably other ways to stay connected to the dance world, using the business skills and contacts from dance along with whatever other skills you may have.

- Producing workshops, events, competitions
- Importing and selling costumes
- Designing and producing skirts, props and/or accessories
- Business services, specializing in dancers (website design, graphic design, marketing plans?)

Daniela, I can imagine you making a name for yourself as the first attorney specializing in bellydance!! Writing a book on legal aspects of the dance (all that confusing music copyright stuff!), selling boilerplate contracts, waivers and other legal documents for teachers and performers. OK, that may not be a full career.. maybe specialize in dance in general, or dance and yoga or something...

Ooh, Lauren, I like the way you think....I AM a contract attorney.....hmm :: wheels are turning::

I worked as a travelling performer for three years and my boyfriend is still a traveling musician and is on tour most of the time. My son got older and it came to be time for me to settle down in one spot for his sake (starting school soon!). So my career came to an abrupt halt. I opened a studio and teach and perform locally (and occasionally regionally) now instead.

The experience got both me and the boyfriend thinking and we realized that the day eventually comes when you can no longer travel to perform or when you can no longer perform. And that's kinda scary. Cause what do you do then? You spend 20 years being a musician or a dancer and then wind up working at McDonald's because you aren't really qualified to do much else? And what happens if I get into a car accident next week and can no longer dance?

So last year, we decided to utilize all the unique skills we've both developed over the years and started a production company. Primary function of the company is to represent up and coming independent artists, but we also do a few other random things as well. My boyfriend was the booking agent for his successfully touring band for 10 years so he has contacts all over the globe. He's also a highly accomplished music producer. I was an event planner and worked in marketing/public relations for many years before becoming a performer. So between the two of us, we make one kick butt agent ..l;, So now we take baby performers of all kinds and help prevent them from making all the mistakes that we made and saw throughout our years. Its completely rewarding to know that we are making a difference (our performers sleep in hotels, not their cars...We insist they get paid living wage!). And its something that we are taking our time developing (keeping our client base small for now). The intention is to grow the business so that when we are ready to retire from the road (or we get too old/out of shape/whatever to perform anymore) then we have something viable ready to go.

Its sort of a back up plan, but one we are enjoying just as much. And I get to keep my ties to the performance community. Its awesome ..g.:

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Ooh, Lauren, I like the way you think....I AM a contract attorney.....hmm :: wheels are turning::

*attacks dainelabellydance's professional inbox immediately*
you set yourself up for a really fun ride now telling us that you're a contract atty!

Originally Posted by david

*attacks dainelabellydance's professional inbox immediately*
you set yourself up for a really fun ride now telling us that you're a contract atty!

Just make sure you don't ask her to give legal advice in exchange for a free shawarma dinner!!! The girl's trying to make a career here.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Just make sure you don't ask her to give legal advice in exchange for a free shawarma dinner!!! The girl's trying to make a career here.

Okay.

So, maybe $20 and shawarma?

And tips. She gets 50% and I get the other half.

That all sounds fair for a professional legal product.

Don'tcha think?

Deborah

LOL, you guys are funny. I write contracts between egg donors and intended parents, and surrogates and intended parents....probably don't have much knowledge (yet) that could be helpful to you all.

Originally Posted by safiradokos

I worked as a travelling performer for three years and my boyfriend is still a traveling musician and is on tour most of the time. My son got older and it came to be time for me to settle down in one spot for his sake (starting school soon!). So my career came to an abrupt halt. I opened a studio and teach and perform locally (and occasionally regionally) now instead.

The experience got both me and the boyfriend thinking and we realized that the day eventually comes when you can no longer travel to perform or when you can no longer perform. And that's kinda scary. Cause what do you do then? You spend 20 years being a musician or a dancer and then wind up working at McDonald's because you aren't really qualified to do much else? And what happens if I get into a car accident next week and can no longer dance?

So last year, we decided to utilize all the unique skills we've both developed over the years and started a production company. Primary function of the company is to represent up and coming independent artists, but we also do a few other random things as well. My boyfriend was the booking agent for his successfully touring band for 10 years so he has contacts all over the globe. He's also a highly accomplished music producer. I was an event planner and worked in marketing/public relations for many years before becoming a performer. So between the two of us, we make one kick butt agent ..l;, So now we take baby performers of all kinds and help prevent them from making all the mistakes that we made and saw throughout our years. Its completely rewarding to know that we are making a difference (our performers sleep in hotels, not their cars...We insist they get paid living wage!). And its something that we are taking our time developing (keeping our client base small for now). The intention is to grow the business so that when we are ready to retire from the road (or we get too old/out of shape/whatever to perform anymore) then we have something viable ready to go.

Its sort of a back up plan, but one we are enjoying just as much. And I get to keep my ties to the performance community. Its awesome ..g.:

This is awesome. I like!! ..g.:

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Okay.

So, maybe $20 and shawarma?

And tips. She gets 50% and I get the other half.

That all sounds fair for a professional legal product.

Don'tcha think?

Deborah

OK, but I think she should do a little legal work for free so we can see if we like her.

And she should change suits in our mop closet and then come back and practice law some more!

First of all, let me say I'm very sorry to hear about your carcinoma and your necessary time off from performing. Wishing you a rapid recovery!!!

I've actually been thinking a lot about this these last several months too. Started thinking about it when the economy took a dive (and given that dance *is* my job, the slow-down in gigs and tips was painful, even with teaching), but also because who knows? Maybe I'll need to take time off to have or adopt a baby some day, and in any case, though probably not for some years, time/age *will* become a factor in gigging at *some* point, and so that "next step" is something to think about/work toward before it becomes an issue.

I'm not 100% sure what the game plan is yet as we're exploring a few different options, including possibly me getting a graduate degree in a related field. I have my dance school and I have been getting more into teaching workshops outside my local area, so there's that, but it woud be good to have other revenue streams too. I've worked as a writer, designer, etc. in corporate America and though I don't want to do that again, there are perhaps some transferrable skills and education from those positions and my undergrad degrees in history and journalism that may, especially if combined with further education in Arabic studies/dance ethnography, also allow me to do some other work related to this area other than teaching and perfoming dance.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

I write contracts between egg donors and intended parents, and surrogates and intended parents....

Wow. That is really cool. I mean, I'm sure like all jobs it has its day-in, day-out frustrations and times when it doesn't feel so cool, but for the people who go through those processes, that's a really important field, and you really do help people and families. :-)

Thanks, it is pretty cool. :-)

It is something to think about. Throughout most of my 20's and 30's, dancing was my main job. I'd have a few part time jobs here and there but mostly I danced. Work was much more plentiful then. Then I got divorced and reality set in. Although I had a college degree, I had no job skills. Dance jobs started drying up as clubs started closing left and right.

Fortunately I made the decision to go to law school. A year later, at the age of 39 I retired from dancing. I was very surprised as I thought I'd dance for at least another year or two. But between working full time, going to school at night, and an influx of young, new dancers the time was right to leave.

After I finished law school, I got into teaching just to keep my toes in the business. But now it's a hobby for me. I like the security of a real job.

Many of the dancers I worked with in the 80's and 90's retired at the same age 39-40. They all had to struggle with the same issues and find new career paths for themselves. All but one is divorced so they have no choice but to support themselves. All of them are amazing strong women!

My best advice to you young ladies out there is to get an education. Then if something sidelines you from performing you have options available to you.

I wish you a speedy recovery Daniella.

This is a great thread. In today's economic environment, there are no guarantees for anyone...so being able to think outside the box is in your own best interest.

I had a successful business as a Personal Chef for 5 years. I developed that after working as a restaurant chef for many years, taking time off to start a family, and realizing I didn't want to be away from daughter 16 hours a day. So I took my skill set and built a business helping other busy families.
Now, the market collapse took alot of my clients down the tubes, I'm going through a divorce and need more stability in terms of monthly income and benefits. So I segued into teaching cooking classes. So much fun! I still get to do something I love and get paid for it.

Now, onto the dance connection...my main instructor recently encouraged me to start gigging. And she has been helping me get "baby dancer" gigs at some local venues. But she pointed out that for most dancers, the bread and butter comes from teaching. To that end she is encouraging me to start teaching classes in the fall. I have to agree with her. While I love performing, as a single mom it isn't realistic for me to be out gigging until 1 am 4 nights a week. So the teaching will fill in the gaps, and still give me the flexibility to accept gigs I want, and be the mom I need and want to be.

I think as artists and women, we are particularly well suited to being able to adapt our businesses to the conditions at hand. So all the best to you Daniela, as you continue to heal and look ahead to the next chapter of your dance career.

First: HUGS! I know how scary it is to be out of commission for such a long time, but it'll be okay!

I hurt my hip pretty badly in the fall. I was expecting it to heal in a couple of weeks, but I re-injured it twice, and couldn't perform for over 6 months. (I've only just started performing again, and am on the fence about whether to start actively seeking gigs yet, since I'm 20lbs heavier and am having costuming and truth-in-advertising issues.)

I got really depressed for a while there. I decided a few years ago not to pursue an engineering career to make room for dancing. The decision to be a dancer with a (good and challenging) day job, rather than an engineer who dances was such a big part of my identity that not being able to dance was really upsetting. As the recovery took longer and longer, I got more and more panickey. And I constantly felt like my body was broken. It took a little while, but eventually I accepted that I'm still a dancer even if I'm not currently performing.


My best advice for your immediate situation is to treat the downtime as an opportunity. This is a good time for reflection (I worked with The Artist's Way) and for working on whatever you haven't had time for recently: particular dance skills, updating your web site, other business-building activities, etc.


About the longer-term stuff, I'm still too early in my career to give any advice of my own, but I did get some good advice from Julie Ann Eason of the Belly Dance Business Academy, who coached me last year. One thing she told me was that when you're self-employed (in any capacity, but especially in dance) multiple income streams are key. Slumps in bookings, class enrollment, etc. happen, but usually not at once. I'd definitely recommend looking into some of Lauren's ideas, ESPECIALLY the legal services & products. That could be huge.

Products (videos, books, downloads, etc.) are especially good, since, once they're done, they only need minimal intervention (advertising, etc.) So even if you were simultaneously unable to perform & teach (knock on wood), you could still earn income.

Anyway: HUGS. It's going to be okay.

Daniela - I really wish you a speedy recovery, its an awful thing to have to deal with.

Insofar as career longevity...I have a recommendation. Pick up the book "Who Moved My Cheese". Seriously. It'll take you about an hour to read, and it will really get you in a headspace where you start thinking and seeing things differently. Dance is really no different than any other industry - we all have to re-invent ourselves, as change is the only constant in life. And change is foreseeable, if you are open to seeing it.

Although teaching seems to be the next alternative, there are lots of other options - producing, managing, lawyer-ing, promoting, publishing, researching, traveling, choreographing, playing music, lots of things. Like you said, lots of dancers don't like teaching or simply aren't good at it. It would be very sad to encounter a bad teacher who teaches simply because they don't know what else to do. That ends up hurting everyone....so while it is a good alternative for some, it isn't for everyone. Better we pick the things we enjoy doing! Everyone has something to contribute.

BTW - I'm happy to offer you some moose steaks in exchange for legal advice. ..l;,

Before I went into this, I was a full time legal secretary and I still am, at the higher end of the pay scale. I also get benefits, a pension plan and a 401(k) plan, and I've been doing it a very long time. As much as I would love to pursue bellydancing more, I have to revolve it around my full time job, thus it is more of a hobby than anything else. I don't even teach because I wouldn't be any good at it, at least not right now. I guess having regular employment makes me less inclined to pursue more gigs too but in these times I would have to really market myself hard and maybe even undercut or steal others' gigs which is not an option for me under any circumstances.

So unless you come out with a multi-million DVD bestseller, I would stick with a day job and hope that while doing this a stellar opportunity comes along.