Thread: "we want X dancers... but we cannot pay"

aargh,

i keep getting these requests for "a bellydance group", "we want several dancers", and then "we have no budget" "but we will give you free drinks"

i'm annoyed.

Answer:

"Oh, that's a shame. Never mind. Do think of us next time you can afford to pay for entertainers!"

that's a good one, better than my standard, "i'm sorry we only do a few selected charity events per year"

What makes people think that they should get something for nothing?

because they think bellydance is "an exciting hobby", not something professional entertainers do.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Answer:

"Oh, that's a shame. Never mind. Do think of us next time you can afford to pay for entertainers!"

Much better than the "yeah well, people in hell want ice water...doesn't mean they are getting it" response that flashed through my head! ..l;,

~~Kimahri

I like that!

Originally Posted by Kimahri

Much better than the "yeah well, people in hell want ice water...doesn't mean they are getting it" response that flashed through my head! ..l;,

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by Kimahri

Much better than the "yeah well, people in hell want ice water...doesn't mean they are getting it" response that flashed through my head! ..l;,

~~Kimahri

Ah, one of my favorite lines evah!

I'm very sympathetic to people running charity fundraisers -- calling around and asking for donations is what they do!

BUT when they're pushy or demanding... or when it's not *really* a charity thing.. it's just insulting.

I agree, lots of people just don't think of us as professional entertainers.

I once had someone try to "hire" me for free at their country club function. She actually told me that they couldn't pay me because of the cost of the exclusive (her words) country club, the band, and the caterer, BUT it'd be a great networking event for me, and I could stay and eat!

Um, no.

I told her pretty much what I thought of that idea.

Yes it's annoying. And then they try to get a discount, which would mean all of the dancers have to take a pay cut (cause I can tell you one girl sure as heck isn't going to dance for less than the other 2 and 3 dancers just don't come for the price of 2). If you can't afford 3 dancers for your wedding, 2 is just as good. And yet, people get these *ideas* in their heads...

And yea Tamra Henna, I am so *over* the networking plug. "Please, dance for less, but I'll introduce you to important people!" Yea, whatever...

Originally Posted by nadira82

Yes it's annoying. And then they try to get a discount, which would mean all of the dancers have to take a pay cut (cause I can tell you one girl sure as heck isn't going to dance for less than the other 2 and 3 dancers just don't come for the price of 2). If you can't afford 3 dancers for your wedding, 2 is just as good. And yet, people get these *ideas* in their heads...

And yea Tamra Henna, I am so *over* the networking plug. "Please, dance for less, but I'll introduce you to important people!" Yea, whatever...

"I'll introduce you to important people who think you'll dance at their parties for free!"

Why is it that the more money people have, the cheaper they are? I tell you what, I've NEVER been tipped at any party I've been to where the clientele are upscale. Ever. My best tips have always come from working class clients. The richer they are, it seems the less they feel you're worth.

They know they will be able to find belly dancers who will perform for nothing! Will they get well entertained is another question.
Even charities have entertainment budgets but then even highly paid entertainers are prepared to give their time for causes they really care about.
I would give of time for a cause I really appreciate otherwise even someone like me expects some sort of recompence.

Tamrahenna, you are absolutely right. Once I danced at Persian party (they paid my regular rate, though they tried to be cheap) the lady said to bring lots of my cards, it's all doctors and important people there, great networking, she'll introduce me.
Didn't make a dollar tip.

This was 5 years ago, after that when people said it's great networking, the alarm always went off in my head. Of course they always mentioned "great networking" in lieu of payment; or that it's great exposure for me. So I always told them that it's even better networking when I get paid my rate, and I'm already "pretty much exposed " locally, I don't need to take a pay cut just so people see me.
That shuts them up, they often hire me after that, I guess that's when they do have a budget, but want to save as much as they can.

Originally Posted by Marianna

Tamrahenna, you are absolutely right. Once I danced at Persian party (they paid my regular rate, though they tried to be cheap) the lady said to bring lots of my cards, it's all doctors and important people there, great networking, she'll introduce me.
Didn't make a dollar tip.

This was 5 years ago, after that when people said it's great networking, the alarm always went off in my head. Of course they always mentioned "great networking" in lieu of payment; or that it's great exposure for me. So I always told them that it's even better networking when I get paid my rate, and I'm already "pretty much exposed " locally, I don't need to take a pay cut just so people see me.
That shuts them up, they often hire me after that, I guess that's when they do have a budget, but want to save as much as they can.

That is EXACTLY what I tell people, and what I told this lady, in fact. I think she was surprised at my attitude, haha.

Originally Posted by nadira82

And yea Tamra Henna, I am so *over* the networking plug. "Please, dance for less, but I'll introduce you to important people!" Yea, whatever...

I can't remember what Bhuzzer posted it, but I will always remember this response to "dance for free and you'll get lots of gigs from it!":

"We can't afford to pay you, but it'll be great exposure!"
"You know, people die from exposure."

..l;,

Originally Posted by laura 2

I can't remember what Bhuzzer posted it, but I will always remember this response to "dance for free and you'll get lots of gigs from it!":

"We can't afford to pay you, but it'll be great exposure!"
"You know, people die from exposure."

..l;,

Oops -- looked it up, that comes from SamiraMirage, formerly of St. Louis, now on her way back to Hawaii.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Why is it that the more money people have, the cheaper they are? I tell you what, I've NEVER been tipped at any party I've been to where the clientele are upscale. Ever. My best tips have always come from working class clients. The richer they are, it seems the less they feel you're worth.

I've noticed this, too. Then again, when I worked in construction, we dealt with rich clients on a daily basis - and they'd haggle over $45 invoices. I think it's a habitual thing, and I think a lot of extremely wealthy people partially got to where they are today by being awfully stingy and micromanaging.

Working class clients rock! They're never afraid to show the love.

Well, I just got a low ball offer on a wedding gig. A short set for the price f a belly gram. I e-mailed her back saying that I was going to think about it as I wasn't sure that, considering I'd be getting right off the plane from Cairo in order to do the job, I would really be interested in dancing for less than my regular fee. Unless, of course, she would be willing ot guarantee that I'd make up the difference and more in tips.

still haven't e-mailed her back. I think I'll tell her that as all she can afford is the lower price, I'll be happy to do the bellygarm. If between now ad then she can come up with the additional $50, I'll do the short set.

Obviously, I am thinking that either way, this is not going to be good. . .

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by Kimahri

Much better than the "yeah well, people in hell want ice water...doesn't mean they are getting it" response that flashed through my head! ..l;,

~~Kimahri

exactly!
my first thought was "...and i want a pony!"
in tech, we call this the "iWant"

Originally Posted by laura 2

"You know, people die from exposure."

priceless ..l;,..l;,..l;,

if they say "but it's great exposure", i now answer "well, i've got more work than i can manage, so i dont need the exposure, in fact, hmm, i dont think i'll be able to fit you in"

Originally Posted by Marianna

This was 5 years ago, after that when people said it's great networking, the alarm always went off in my head. Of course they always mentioned "great networking" in lieu of payment; or that it's great exposure for me.

Yes, you can "network" and get LOTS more clients who don't want to pay.

yay...

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Oops -- looked it up, that comes from SamiraMirage, formerly of St. Louis, now on her way back to Hawaii.

Thanks so much for finding that! I always try to give the OP credit for those brilliant comebacks that stick in my mind. ..g.:

One other one, that's almost worse than the private customer, is the not-for-profit customer. I'm not talking about truely small scale charities that really are broke, but reasonably large charities have "entertainment budgets". Don't believe it when they say they don't have money to pay performers, they do - they just don't want to pay for you or don't think you are worthy of paying for your service.

I worked for a small charity for 7 years, mind you it was development savy, but still really small. Their event budgets were huge with sponsorships, etc.

Unless you truely support the charity, beware of these folks. They have money that they are required to spend via their sponsorships.

Be wary of this tactic...

You may be thinking I'm being hard to treat a charity this way, but charities work just like corporations, the only difference is the charity/organization itself is not banking profits, but chances are the charity's management is through payroll.

For the record, I'm not talking about truely small charities, that really don't have lots of funding...if you support their cause, please offer services as you deem fit.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

that's a good one, better than my standard, "i'm sorry we only do a few selected charity events per year"

This is exactly why I created a whole page dedicated to the charities I will donate my time and work to. I was getting requests to support all kinds of charities for a while.

I've always liked this one:

"I'm so sorry, but the last time I checked, the landlord for my dance studio didn't take "exposure" as rent payment!"

Do you think it's weird to ask right off the bat, what kind of entertainment budget the caller has? I did that on a recent call, and of course this sent the guy stuttering and stammering about how nobody has entertainment budgets in this economy, yadda yadda yadda, whatever, I didn't buy it. He didn't like my price and already had talked to somebody who would do the gig for less, so I let it go, thankful to not have to deal with that nonsense.

Another call I had recently, the person didn't even flinch at my price, they actually had money. I was so excited at the possibility of a good paying gig, finally!!! but then she said she wanted like 4-5 dancers. :-( So I had to give the gig away to a local troupe because I don't have backup just yet. I'm still depressed about losing that one.

So what is up with all these people wanting nonstop dancing? One or two 20 minute sets of one dancer is plenty for most non-Arab parties in my opinion. If they really want to spend their entire budget on bellydance overkill, it's their perogative, I just wish people would understand that just one professional dancer can make a really strong presence, and would be more affordable too. Do you think they just don't know better, that the default thinking is more==better?

~gigless/sidonia~

Honestly, I think bellydancers are the new go-go dancers.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

"I'll introduce you to important people who think you'll dance at their parties for free!"

Why is it that the more money people have, the cheaper they are? I tell you what, I've NEVER been tipped at any party I've been to where the clientele are upscale. Ever. My best tips have always come from working class clients. The richer they are, it seems the less they feel you're worth.

I have had the *exact* same experience! And they are nicer too! So interesting, huh...

Originally Posted by SidoniaOfNashville

Do you think it's weird to ask right off the bat, what kind of entertainment budget the caller has?...

~gigless/sidonia~

I don't ask right off the bat, but I DO ask in a series of questions about their event.