Thread: Belly Grams?

Ok, so silly question...I've seen where some of you lovely ladies do belly grams. Now back in the day, I was used to this as referring to a belly dancer showing up on your doorstep and doing her thing...which I was always afraid was a little borderline risque and dangerous - especially in this day and age... But the more I'm reading, I'm thinking they have morphed into something a bit more corporate party, etc., which is very appealing. For starters, what do some of you ladies set as guidelines for such events...and what do you normally charge...I would think it would count as a set, because it wouldn't exceed a 15 minute performance.

I'm just re-thinking my initial stance on belly grams, since my view of private lessons has become a touch soured...

Personally, I don't offer bellygrams. Or, rather, I don't advertise them as a regular part of my repetoire.

It's not that I have any specific ethical qualms about grams - it's just that they don't rank very high on my Hagen Dazs Index. In other words, I'd rather enjoy a pint of fancy ice cream on a Saturday night than do a bellygram.

And here's my reasoning: a bellygram involves the same amount of prep work and/or travel as a full show, so I don't love the idea of getting paid half my rate for what is pretty much the same type of work to me. It's too much work, not enough gratification.

Now, I might be inclined to do one on a case-specific basis if it was less than 20 minutes from my house - but it seems I've only ever been contacted for grams that were at least an hour away. Go figure!

From my website:

BellyGram - Entrance song, followed by a second song where the guest of honor is encouraged to get up and dance. Galatea brings additional hip scarves and will try to get one or two other audience members to dance as well. Approximately 10 minutes of dancing. Includes custom souvenir greeting card for the guest(s) of honor

BellyGrams make up about 85% of my gigs - they are, quite honestly, my bread and butter as a full time dancer in my particular market. I think in larger metro areas, and in parts of the country that are more trendy/multicultural, it might be very different. My BellyGram rate is only 25% less than a Full Set, which is about 20-25 minutes long and includes a prop. At least music-wise, there's less prep time because with a Full Set I put a lot more thought into the flow of 5 different songs and styles. With a BellyGram, 99% of the time the set is whatever oriental piece I'm favoring at the time with the Arabic version of the Happy Birthday song popped on the end. Easy peasy, and I often use the same CD multiple times.

Most of the parties I do are birthday parties (50th is a big one), usually in the living room or rec room of people's houses. With a very small area to dance in, sometimes kids running around, and an audience that is there to hang out with friends and family rather than to see a dance show, I find that 10 minutes is plenty of time.

Most of the time they are very fun, and I really like being in and out in no time - I sometimes call it the "dance and dash". Most of my gigs are within a 20-30 minute drive (another thing that may differ per area), and I like leaving my house knowing I'll be back within the hour to get into comfy pajamas and watch TV.

Oh, and as far as safety is concerned, these are the guidelines that personally make me feel comfortable going to a stranger's house to dance:

- a non-refundable deposit and signed contract in advance of the gig date
- the home address and phone number of the client, even if the party's not being held there
- no solo bookings in a private residence past 9pm
- no Bachelor Parties or other all male events

I hate doing belly grams and I've moved away from doing them, but will take them occasionally. Reason: they're quick money. I disagree with Satin in that they aren' t the same amount of work as a full show. I have a canned belly gram routine that I use, so I just throw on a cheap AmCab workhorse costume and head out the door. I really put very little effort into it (hate to admit that, but it's true--nobody notices that you danced the same routine at Uncle Ed's 50th birthday last year).

However, Satin, you're absolutely right about the drive. When I was in CT, I was constantly doing belly grams that were an hour or more drive away. Never anything local. It must be something about that state!! When I have to drive that far, I tack on extra mileage fee--not so much for the gas, but for the time and pain in the arse factor.

Thanks, ladies!

Laura would you mind if I used your guidelines on your second post as inspiration for mine on my website?

Originally Posted by bellydancebyleyla

Thanks, ladies!

Laura would you mind if I used your guidelines on your second post as inspiration for mine on my website?

Absolutely!

I will say that I've heard in some large metro areas that if you don't book past 9pm you won't have many gigs. But out here in the sticks where I am, everyone seems to want me to perform between 7pm and 8pm, so it's rarely an issue.

Yeah, I would think most people would want to keep the later hours open for drinking and madness...unless it's a bachelor party - which they are exempt from this whole deal anyway.

Originally Posted by laura 2

Absolutely!

I will say that I've heard in some large metro areas that if you don't book past 9pm you won't have many gigs. But out here in the sticks where I am, everyone seems to want me to perform between 7pm and 8pm, so it's rarely an issue.

You are absolutely right. Lots of gigs past 9pm. Most are after 9, in fact. But- the DC / Baltimore area has a large ethnic community and has had a strong belly dance scene for decades.
I'd add as a safety factor:
1) most parties are actually booked by women. Always ask lots of questions so you have a good feel for the party.
2) when you drive up to the party, its obviously a party- lots of lights on, lots of cars etc.
3) always let someone know where you are going; I leave a copy of my itinerary at home with my husband. Call your "safety person" (I call my husband) before you go inside and tell him/her approximately how long you'll be. Then call again when you return to your car.

I don't advertise grams. I'm not comfortable with the whole "embarrass uncle Bob" thing, but can see how they could be a fun experience. I appreciate a good "sultan act", which I think is great for gram "shtick".
My full show rates are $275 for a 20-25 minute show. The leaves me wiggle room if someone says they really only want 10 minutes because the "minimum" in this area is $200. For parties though, I don't leave the house for less than $250, so they'd only save a little.

Originally Posted by aazura

However, Satin, you're absolutely right about the drive. When I was in CT, I was constantly doing belly grams that were an hour or more drive away. Never anything local. It must be something about that state!! When I have to drive that far, I tack on extra mileage fee--not so much for the gas, but for the time and pain in the arse factor.

Yes, and CT isn't a big state either - but I ONLY get bellygram leads for the tiny little towns in the extreme Eastern corner of the state. Many times, I'm not even aware that such a town even exists. It really is so bizarre.

If I got a call for a gram in my area, I might change my tune on the subject or at least entertain the possibility...but you're right that such an experience commands at least a small PITA (pain in the arse) fee.

PITA fee--I like that!!! ..l;,..l;, Definitely using that one!!

Funny... my grams were always in the SW corner of the state. Never got any in the quiet corner.

Originally Posted by aazura

Funny... my grams were always in the SW corner of the state. Never got any in the quiet corner.

That's right, you were in Hartford! Dude, if we were in CT at the same time, we could have traded bellygrams ..l;,..l;,..l;,

Originally Posted by bellydancebyleyla

a belly dancer showing up on your doorstep and doing her thing...which I was always afraid was a little borderline risque and dangerous -

Only if there's a party going on. I've never been asked to just show up at a random person's house and do a bellygram. I don't think most singing telegrams (which is what the bellygram is based on) do this either.

The closest I've ever come is the woman who had me do a 'gram for her dad at the coffeeshop where he meets his cronies ever week. 8am in a coffeeshop was kinda weird, but it turns out his late wife was a bellydancer so it was very touching.

Like a singing telegram, the performer is usually booked to come to a party as surprise entertainment, and usually you deliver a greeting -- I usually just bring a 'happy birthday' balloon or whatever -- and give a brief performance.

So except for the fact that you usually bring a card or deliver a greeting of some kind, it's just a mini-show (10-15 minutes).

I do them in a house, I do them in spaces fit for a mouse!
I do them in the yard, I do bring extra business cards!
I do in the nursing home, making sure to dance gental so the old guy doesn't end up prone!
I do them in front of the cat, have the hostess take kitty out or at your fringe they will bat!
I do them in the winter, so cold it turns the belly dancer into a sprinter!
I do them private parties for all the old farties!
I do them here, I do them there, and everywhere for the money I don't care..g.:

Ok that was silly but they are most of my gigs!
I DO bring along my husband for safty at house parties
I always have a contract and money down, no last minute over the phone.
I go in dance and leave.
Most times they are wonderfully fun and people are very well behaved! (I make sure I do it in the BEGINNING of the party, not late. Less drunk people that way. Just tell the client "It is really a great way to get the party started!" They usually go for that! AND you get to avoid drunks and have time for another one or relaxing at home)
And a nice added benifit, I've gotten several students from it.
I don't think of them as high art, they are just fun. Also a great way to intruduce people who have never seen the dance form to it and show them that is is all about skill and fun.
Sorry about the green eggs and ham thing, just had to.....

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

And here's my reasoning: a bellygram involves the same amount of prep work and/or travel as a full show, so I don't love the idea of getting paid half my rate for what is pretty much the same type of work to me. It's too much work, not enough gratification.

What I call a bellygram is a 10-12 minute show followed by some time for photos with the guests, with the option of an extra song at the end to get everyone up dancing. Usually, this is for a private party in someone's home, but I have also done this format for weddings.

I think that format is the best option for an informal party. No matter how great the dancer is, the guests (who came to see their friends, not to watch a show) aren't going to enjoy standing around for 20 minutes. You want to stop when they're satisfied, but still want more, not when they start wishing you would just finish up already so they can go talk to their cousin.

It's like the curtain call at the end of the play; they bring the curtain down as soon as the applause starts to wane, not when it ends.

For that reason, I only recommend a full-length show for parties where the guests are formally seated (banquet-style, like at a wedding). When everybody is sitting at tables (and may have their dinner), the longer show can work. I have talked guests out of full-length shows when it wasn't appropriate.


I can understand not wanting to do a short show for half price, but you could look at that as a pricing issue, not an issue with the show format.

My bellygram price ($195) is my base rate. It's the amount ($195) that is worth it to me to do all the prep work, travel, and do a 10-12 minute performance. I don't get dressed for less than that. :)

To put it another way: the bellygram is not a discounted version of the full-length show. The full-length show is a mark-up of the bellygram.

My bellygram is only about 30% less than my full show. It's my minimum price, but customers like having a choice and feel like they're being thrifty when they choose the lower-cost option.

I agree that a full 20-30 minute show is too much for a house party. People like the surprise and the fun, but by the time a third song starts playing they're squirming...

Originally Posted by jmdruadh

To put it another way: the bellygram is not a discounted version of the full-length show. The full-length show is a mark-up of the bellygram.

100% agree!

Originally Posted by bellydancebyleyla

Ok, so silly question...

That was not a silly question!

I like doing 'grams because they're short, sweet and appreciated! I like going in, surprising everybody, getting folks to laugh and play along for about 10 minutes, and getting out of there with 75% of what I charge for a 20-minute set. As jmdruadh posted, these short sets are perfect for most parties!

I like them. I want to do more of them. I did them all the time back in the mid/late 70's and into the 80's. It was great. (That's when 'grams were about $50-60; I like the fact that the rates have increased a minimum of 300%!)

I have 2-3 different 10-minute "shows" on hand and I ask the client if he/she has any preference as to music style which, of course, has everything to do with dance style. If the answer is "no preference," then I just choose what I feel like doing that day; otherwise, I use their preferred music style.

To me, once all the details are set, contracts signed, deposit received, 'grams are a no-brainer fun thing to do.

"Dance and Dash?" Sign me up, laura 2!

Deborah

PS: I agree with all the safety tips. Personal safety is Priority #1!

I agree with everyone who says your bellygram is your base price, everything else is just a markup!

Satin, don't charge half of your fee for a bellygram! For all the reasons mentioned above, they are just as much work as a full length show. My 'gram is only $20 less than the next package up - the 20 minute show. So, I'm fine with taking a $20 hit if it means I'm outta there in half the time!

Cashbahdance,

You stated it just right! They are fun to do, you can "play" for money and give people joy!

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

I agree with everyone who says your bellygram is your base price, everything else is just a markup!

Satin, don't charge half of your fee for a bellygram! For all the reasons mentioned above, they are just as much work as a full length show. My 'gram is only $20 less than the next package up - the 20 minute show. So, I'm fine with taking a $20 hit if it means I'm outta there in half the time!

Hmmmmmmmm....rethinking my stance on bellygrams.

Nothing like a little reverse psychology, after all. Some people probably think they're being thrifty.

And maybe this would be a good way to negotiate, when they want to knock $25 off my quote but something's gotta give...

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

That's right, you were in Hartford! Dude, if we were in CT at the same time, we could have traded bellygrams ..l;,..l;,..l;,

..l;, Great idea!! ..l;,

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Hmmmmmmmm....rethinking my stance on bellygrams.

Nothing like a little reverse psychology, after all. Some people probably think they're being thrifty.

And maybe this would be a good way to negotiate, when they want to knock $25 off my quote but something's gotta give...

EXACTLY!

Deborah

Maybe I'm finally starting to "get" it!

Great thing about BD is that you can really learn something new each day .

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Maybe I'm finally starting to "get" it!

Great thing about BD is that you can really learn something new each day .

:Abiggrin: :Abiggrin:

Deborah

wow if only the dancers in NE Ohio got paid as much as some of you ladies do! we get sooooo ripped off here. it's sad for the full time dancers here.

Belly grams are the way to go, because MOST of the people booking me have NO idea what belly dance is all about! They want "something fun" for a party! Short show, good pay, and dancing for fun, is MOST of my business.
I have to say that in my area we don't get the pay that some of you ladies do but still get upset over undercutters, and there are some who do it for almost 1/3 less! Charge more people! Don't you think you are worth it?

we offer 5 and 10 min as grams...15 and over not concidered a gram.

This was great, very original.

Originally Posted by faaria

I do them in a house, I do them in spaces fit for a mouse!
I do them in the yard, I do bring extra business cards!
I do in the nursing home, making sure to dance gental so the old guy doesn't end up prone!
I do them in front of the cat, have the hostess take kitty out or at your fringe they will bat!
I do them in the winter, so cold it turns the belly dancer into a sprinter!
I do them private parties for all the old farties!
I do them here, I do them there, and everywhere for the money I don't care..g.:

Ok that was silly but they are most of my gigs!
I DO bring along my husband for safty at house parties
I always have a contract and money down, no last minute over the phone.
I go in dance and leave.
Most times they are wonderfully fun and people are very well behaved! (I make sure I do it in the BEGINNING of the party, not late. Less drunk people that way. Just tell the client "It is really a great way to get the party started!" They usually go for that! AND you get to avoid drunks and have time for another one or relaxing at home)
And a nice added benifit, I've gotten several students from it.
I don't think of them as high art, they are just fun. Also a great way to intruduce people who have never seen the dance form to it and show them that is is all about skill and fun.
Sorry about the green eggs and ham thing, just had to.....

that was cute, very snappy.

If you're still looking for bellygram info, I have an article here: Bellygrams - Advice from a Pro

Originally Posted by dark_bellydance

This was great, very original.