Thread: Don't touch the dancer

put a veil on for pics?
ah, does anyone else think the client should get their money's worth ?
do we only use pictures of us coverd on our sites?
...sorry, i am so not getting this generation of dancers.

Hi Corey.

I think it was less of a deliberate attempt to insult you [and by extension the people who hire you] then a very sad reflection on our changing times, and a rather good reminder of 2 things.

1] One should never be arrogant enough to presume your culural values are the same as everyone else's

I personally was very interested to read what you had to say about the elder islamic matriarchs patting a dancer for luck. I myself had not heard of that. Then again, my truest islamic friend lacks a grandmother on both sides. I do appreciate that a woman's breasts- at least as far as I understand it, i could be mistaken- are far less 'sexualised' in islamic culture [where the whole woman is a sexual object, more then a$$, boobs or sundry others seperatley] then in the west- hence, I always presumed, the sometimes scarily low cut tops on some of the younger Egyptian dancers.
Sorry... digression.

Anyway, my point with that was it just shows up what ingrained cultural arrogance produces, doesn't it? Grabbing a boob in Americo-Westernised culture is tabboo, so it must automatically be elsewhere too? Its yet another form of ethnic superiority, but I bet its one most of us fall prey to at one time or other!

In a similar vein, I will not linger to eat with guests at a 'normal' gig, both for safety and propritry reasons. However, there are many times I will break that too, if a specific culture is referenced in the audience that I know view this offer in a different way- as a hospitality that must be extended rather then an 'oh, feed the underling' or a 'Ooo, lets feed shots to the hot totty' way. There, I will stop and have a drink or a nibble, be sure to offer them a compliment and then leave. I.E, an attempt [though I am sure I sometimes fail, too] to respect the different ways e were all brought up, just as I like to be respected.

2] The times, they have got sad.

When you have to watch your back, and be suspicious of everyone, and mistrust everything, it is horrible, and yet many of us are forced to do so on a daily basis. We, especially as women, have become so used to people doing wrong things, that we automatically presume everything someone does is wrong and meant to push our boundries, humiliate us or degrade us. Of course, that can keep us safe when it is meant to do just that- like the sexually harassing colleague- but can also cause us to over-react, misunderstand etc- like Linnyg's example of her grandpa, or yours of the islamic ladies.

At least there are dancers who, like you, danced since a time when one could feel safer, and thereby have so many unique opportunities opened by it, to remind us that occasionally we need to step outside the confines placed on us by the society we currently live in, and remember that not everyone has those same hangups and cultural back stories, and that sometimes, much though it doesn't feel like it some days, things are meant just innocently.

Personally, I play by ear. If it is coming from an older person, chances are mostly that they are just being friendly, or at the most, a little 'naughty'. If I encounter something that pushes my buttons from a person of my age- most of the younger generations were all raised on the same kind of pop-mush, I feel even if western ideals aren't your culture, chances are you know about them, and encroaching on an obvious boundary there might be meant disrespectfully. So in those cases, I view it a little less favourably.

Also, i tend to judge circumstances. If it was a quick swift tap, even somewhere I don't really want to be tapped, chances are it was, again, either a bit of cheekiness, a different cultural standpoint, or even something innocent- I myself have a male friend who helped raise 3 younger sisters. He has a habit of 'tidying' clothing- tucking in stray labels, etc. He did it to an aqquaintance who was horrified he had 'grabbed her butt'. I don't think he even realised he had done it, it was an automatic little gesture! And he certaily had no interest in her backside. On the other hand, if someone comes at you with a sticky little paw and squeezes- well, that is hardly ambiguous.

I happen to agree with Corey's last post, too. The photos they want are of the magic moment you helped create. To me, the veil or a cover up- that isn't fair. They will probably settle for it, but it feels a little mean. I myself have intense issues about closeness- I have wide personal boundaries. But for things like photos, it is something I have to suck up if I am going to call myself a professional, to give them that last parting gift, a cherry on the top [with luck] to a thoroughly enjoyed evening. About the only time I ever rebel against a rested hand is if it is clearly sticky with the remains of dessert- more in the interests of not mucking up a darn expensive costume.

Gah.. me and my epic posts.

wow, thank you !
breasts are a good sign when big, ..signs you are a good breeder.thats why curvey dancers are at the top of their list.you are healthy...you can make a family happy.
funny, i am childfree by choice..and profession.
hey, i had some women lick my stomach while her table mate was tipping me.it was a wedding, the had special martinis.i know i can not insult an invited guest, so i turned around, and announce to the other guests 'no more martinis for her "
they all laughed, and i was hired again.
is it a generation thing ?..ignorance of other peoples?..whatever, thank you so much....actually, all of you....thank you!
we are belly dancers, the good luck of ethnic celebration...not nuns!

hmmmm, my wifes grandpa called all the girls "puss".i asked her why she tolerated it.first she had no idea what it ment, and 2 i guess in arkansas, old men say that.
hell, when she went to mississippi, the still use the "n' wpord, like they are saying hello !
what you said about food and custpoms..you better believe ethnic people get upset if you refuse food!
i always say i have another gig, and they make me a plate.
you are in s africa, ....i was raised by an old country dad.i guess we just get it!

I think a bit of both.

Modern generation more used to having to watch our backs from wierdos constantly.

And often, if not ignorance [which always seems a 'couldn't care' word to me, and thats not always true] then a lack of knowledge.

Talking about myself again, I know I have to always be very aware in my interaction with the black [South African] chaps in my audience. Culturally, they tend to be less inhibited dancing, so there is always less fight to get them to dance with me, which is fantastic, let me tell you! However, culturally, the bantu groups, men and women, also dance really up in a partners face. So I have to juggle not culturally offending, with not letting the other ethnicities in the audience get the wrong idea.
Of course, mainly I dance with the ladies anyway, but sometimes it is a tough call.

All part and parcel of the wonderful chance to be part of a multicultural world, though, so its all good :)

"All part and parcel of the wonderful chance to be part of a multicultural world, though, so its all good :)"
oooo like , you NEVER take a cowboys hat off and put it on your head! big oops.....
yes ! and this "chance" makes it a wonderful planet!...learn, dont run!
you rock AMIRA!

Zamora, you said that one of the things Helena Vlahos did that became expected from her 'sultan' act would make our heads spin. Well, I'm familiar with the dollar bill folding and her nine quarters routine. What was the other thing?

I'm curious too.

Miraj of Pennsylvania has a great video out on doing grams that covers lots of strategies for managing difficult customers, grabby and otherwise. Although my teacher originally showed me the video in preparation for my first gram, I think a lot of the advice she gives translates to many kinds of gigs.

Zamora, you gonna leave us hanging about Helena's 'Sultan' act? I'm not expecting to be offended, just curious. Alyssa wants to hear it too. WHat's the 'one thing' that would make our heads spin?

Try PM-ing her to ask.

First off, Miss Corey, I just want to say that you are such an inspiration to me! When I began doing restaurant performance a couple of years ago, I looked to your videos for tips and inspiration (LOVE the sword/candle tray video!) In short, you ROCK, mamma!

That said, reading your responses to this thread has been fascinating as well as smile-inducing for me. You make a lot of very good points, and you have such a vast amount of experience in that field, I could think of few better to give a detailed answer to the question posted.

I have danced for several different restaurants in Atlanta, from expensive Persian palaces to late-night college town hookah lounges, and I absolutely agree that being touched is just part of the job. When taking body tips, people can't help but touch you--in fact, it's part of the fun! Watching sheepish Uncle Harry or crazy-drunk Aunt Sue place a dollar in the pretty belly dancer's belt is a fun part of the entertainment experience. What's more, it's only natural, when a picture is being taken, for someone to put a hand/arm around your shoulder. Some people have a firmer grip than others, but unless they're smacking your butt or copping a feel, they surely mean no harm by it.

For those who do touch inappropriately (Example: I had a college boy attempt to put his ENTIRE HAND down my skirt while tipping me with a $1 bill...wasn't even a $5!), simply avoid them at least, and notify the person in charge at most. Even if excessive touchy-feely people make you feel uncomfortable, it's worth it to grit your teeth and bear it for a few seconds, rather than appear standoffish and rude.

It upsets me greatly that, nowadays, the "Standard Model" restaurant belly dancer is often aloof, non-smiling, and dances around customers with the attitude of "You are lucky that I allowed you the great fortune of observing me dance." So many don't interact with customers, don't allow costume tips, and have lost all love and passion for the dance that once made them feel alive and beautiful.

When you dance simply for the love of dancing, you are an artist first and foremost. When you are PAID to perform at a restaurant, you are paid to be an ENTERTAINER first, above all else. The restaurant is paying you to ENTERTAIN customers and enhance their dining experience. Some of the best technical belly dancers out there rarely get gigs because they charge outrageous amounts and think they are too "good" to take body tips and interact with customers in a friendly way. Would you hire someone like that to dance at YOUR party/restaurant? Yeesh, I'd rather hire a drag queen!

You can be serious about your devotion to your art form, but that doesn't give you the excuse to take yourself too seriously. Go ahead and make silly facial expressions, joke with the customers, laugh when the lecherous old man wants to hug you, take the occasional middle-of-the-bra tip from a drunk lady, and shine the bald guy's head with your veil. You love this job, remember? ;)

Whether you are brand new to the world of pro belly dancing or a seasoned professional (like Miss Zamora), a pretty smile, positive attitude, playfulness, and willingness to deal with awkward situations is often what will keep restaurants calling to book you time and time again. At the end of the day, they want their guests to be entertained, enjoy their experience, and come back often.

wow, reading this thread; I was a bit shocked at how upset you seem to get zamora. I didn't think she attacked you personally, but can see why it was taken that way. anyways... that's not my comment...

I have two thoughts about this from both sides of things:

1. Sure I think we should (people, not just dancers...since I'm not a dancer) be respectful of other cultures. But other cultures should also be respectful that they are interacting with people from cultures different than theirs as well. So giving someone a pass for crude behavior by saying it's cultural should not be done IMO. (though everyones definition of too far is probably different)

2. That being said, I think that in many lines of work you have to be tolerant of others behavior, esp when interacting with the public; and probably even more so in your-all's line of work + add drunk people often into the mix. Most experienced dancers I've seen are pretty good at controlling these weird situations and I guess it comes with the job. And everybody is comfortable with different levels of behavior. But it does happen to other jobs as well; you just have to learn to deal with all the different personalities offered to you by dealing with the public.