Thread: My current frustration with the Business of Belly Dance!

Okay, I've been thinking long and hard about starting a pro-level showcase in my area. I wanted to use a private room at a restaurant. You know, folks come, pay a small cover charge, select from the menu, pay their bills; performers don't pay the cover (obviously!), split tips and even -- gasp! -- split a portion of the cover.

With this in mind, I spent all day today researching restaurants in my area and, of the restaurants that advertise they have private rooms, they all want to work everything "banquet style." Banquet style means forking over a big non-refundable deposit, pre-selecting a limited menu (I dare you to find anything beyond a tossed green salad for vegetarians), figuring a head count 10 days in advance (belly dancers make a decision before the evening of the event? you've got to be kidding!), and paying for those estimated meals in advance. Ummmm . . . this is almost as costly as running my all-day dance festival!

The main reason I wanted a private room was so that, even though the performers would be strictly professionals, I wanted to periodically have a student night. I am very hard-nosed about students not dancing in front of the GP, so a private room would be essential to be able to offer this type of forum for aspiring dancers.

I will continue my search for a friendly venue, but I see now that I might not be able to offer a student night . . . :Asad:

Deborah, the frustrated producer of fine Middle Eastern dance events

What if the venue had a slightly different feel??

You could try booking a community hall - sell tickets (same as a cover), and offer a cash bar. The ticket price could include munchies (ie. hummus and pita chips on the tables) or to keep costs low, have people bring a potluck appy item to share.

How annoying.

Like Casious, I wonder if you would be better off with a non-restaurant function room or hall, and perhaps having it catered.

Here, we have what are essentially hafla-style events and they go thus:

Hire studio or hall or other commercial space.
Sell tickets at a low price to cover rental/lighting/decor bits/dancers.
BYO booze and a plate.
Everyone has a nice time.

A lot of bars here have function rooms which are free or have a set rental price but require a certain amount to go over the bar. If you can get somewhere that is licenced, that helps a lot - I don't know what the laws are where you are, but here you have to have a licence to sell liquor. Some are fine with you providing your own food.

I did this only once. It was a great event, we had a fantastic turnout, but the stress was nearly too much for me. The restaurant we worked with didn't have a private room but agreed to open privately on a day they were usually closed.

I was working with a partner, or I would have pulled my hair out. We had to charge something like $20 a head, sold tickets in advance (and people had to choose in advance which of the 4 meals offered they wanted). We were able to work it so there was no deposit, if we hadn't sold enough tickets we would have just cancelled. But in order to hold the event we had to guarantee some ridiculous minimum ( $1500 IIRC, to pay for food and the staff coming in) and wound up agreeing to give the restaurant ALL the proceeds.

Over 100 people turned up, the restaurant collected $2,000 and the dancers got nothing. Neither did we, and we had to fork out for door prizes, printing of tickets, etc, never mind the many hours spent coordinating everything. It was a 'successful' event, but I'd never EVER do it like that again!

Yeah, I don't want to be discouraging, but I just won't do diner shows any more because of the time and energy. Catering is EXPENSIVE. Sigh. Anyway...I feel your pain.

I've never attempted doing anything like this and am very unlikely to - I've seen too many bald belly dancers (hair already torn out).

But good luck with your quest, if I can think of any ideas for a different venue I will let you know ... flippin restaurants ... grizzle ramble ...

Ugh. Such an unhopeful thread.

Here's another idea. People (ticketbuyers) don't really seem to care much for the meal being included -- which is our biggest bear, usually. What if the showcase were in a restaurant-style environment (tables & chairs, small staging area) but only snacks and/or beverages included rather than a meal? Could be set up after dining hours in a restaurant that also has a bar, maybe? You (and the dancers) keep the door money, the restuarant gets the alcohol and hors douvre revenues?

Just a thought. Seems to me the environment & program are important, the food...not so much.

forget the restaurant idea entirely. If you are performing and by association bringing business into their establishment then they need to pay you for a professional show. Never the other way around. If you just want to do a pro night for the community then rent a theatre or performance space - bill it as such - sell tickets - pay the dancers. Maybe have refreshments in the lobby. And you'd be surprised about students dancing for the GP. They tend to bring the most audience members and have the most fun. In some case their entourage may save your show. And the GP are very understanding when you make an introduction explaining that they are a student studying with so and so and performing this and that.

We've found that venues that have regular belly dancers already are open to discussing options.
Two that I know of frequently have "student nights"- they DO put out a buffet, BUT Indian and Middle Eastern (as they always are) are very vegetarian friendly. They require a certain number of reservations up front, which is reasonable as they want to be sure it makes sense to have the buffet and they want to have an idea of how much food to make. Events are usually held on a non-busy day or evening (Sunday afternoon, Wednesday evening for example). No deposit required.
Other places will do a $10 at the door (for the event organizer/dancers) and a $10 minimum per person at the table (so the venue makes money). Reservations suggested but not necessary. These are usually after the dinner rush in places that are not usually late night venues, so not "putting out" any people who might normally come in.
They are scary to organize still, but not so risky.
I think the reason they work is because they already have a trust relationship with dancers and they've seen it brings in business.

A friend of mine does a monthly bellydance/live music night at a restaurant and has worked out the pricing to the benefit of the performers.
The establishement sets a pice-fix meal option, with appetizer/salad, choice of 3 main courses and dessert for a set price. The cost of the meal is split so that the restaurant takes a percentage (like 80%) and the performers take the rest. If the customer wants to order drinks or extra food that is not included in the price. Often times the performers make more money then if they were paid by the restaurant, and the customers are happy because they get a full meal and a show for one price.

Originally Posted by Freddie

I've never attempted doing anything like this and am very unlikely to - I've seen too many bald belly dancers (hair already torn out).

But good luck with your quest, if I can think of any ideas for a different venue I will let you know ... flippin restaurants ... grizzle ramble ...

Can we really be surprised that restaurants want to sell food? There are other kinds of venues and spaces that can be rented for performances!

~~Kimahri

What is wrong with putting up showcases in dance studios?

If you want food available you ask around for sponsorship. This way, the potential revenue can be higher.

Also, IMHO, if you as a professional or student feel that you have to "degrade yourself" to dance in a studio - your priorities are in the wrong order. The studio is home base, its the place we develop and evolve as dancers - it should be the first place we think of when it comes to presenting what we do within a budget and a safe enviroment. Not a restaurant, not a stage show, not a community hall.

I understand that need for "professional venues" and "professional feel" to a venue, but I think that dancers at times just get too caught up in that. This causes the less experienced dancers to be shoved into a venue they may not be ready for - and furthermore, make them think they are ready for such venues. Yikes.

Casbahdance, your professsionals will be honored to dance in the venue you provide if they are true professionals. Student dancers shouldnt need to worry about dancing outside of a familiar venue. So, my humble suggestion would be - why not put it all in a studio?

try an indie coffeehouse! it seems most cities have one..indie coffeehouses often have stages..not huge stages but so what?!
often in restaurants we don't have much room anyway!

...i do student showcases there. don't pay a dime! in fact, the coffeehouse loves it because they sell more scones - and we don't charge cover to our guests.

i pass the hat around asking for donations and give that money to an animal shelter...so it's win-win all around!

the coffeehouse wins, the students get experience, it's laid back, and most importantly - we give back to the community thru the animal shelter!!!! let me know if this works for you!
xoox

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

A friend of mine does a monthly bellydance/live music night at a restaurant and has worked out the pricing to the benefit of the performers.
The establishement sets a pice-fix meal option, with appetizer/salad, choice of 3 main courses and dessert for a set price. The cost of the meal is split so that the restaurant takes a percentage (like 80%) and the performers take the rest. If the customer wants to order drinks or extra food that is not included in the price. Often times the performers make more money then if they were paid by the restaurant, and the customers are happy because they get a full meal and a show for one price.

Do they also split the money that people pay for the extra food/drinks? Just curious.

Originally Posted by david

What is wrong with putting up showcases in dance studios?

If you want food available you ask around for sponsorship. This way, the potential revenue can be higher.

Also, IMHO, if you as a professional or student feel that you have to "degrade yourself" to dance in a studio - your priorities are in the wrong order. The studio is home base, its the place we develop and evolve as dancers - it should be the first place we think of when it comes to presenting what we do within a budget and a safe enviroment. Not a restaurant, not a stage show, not a community hall.

I understand that need for "professional venues" and "professional feel" to a venue, but I think that dancers at times just get too caught up in that. This causes the less experienced dancers to be shoved into a venue they may not be ready for - and furthermore, make them think they are ready for such venues. Yikes.

Casbahdance, your professsionals will be honored to dance in the venue you provide if they are true professionals. Student dancers shouldnt need to worry about dancing outside of a familiar venue. So, my humble suggestion would be - why not put it all in a studio?

I like this idea and your reasoning is good. But most of the studios around here are just way too small for a show if you want any audience at all. They don't have much dressing room/bathroom space, either.

But I think the OP said she wanted to do a professional showcase with the occasional student night.

Originally Posted by dunyah

Do they also split the money that people pay for the extra food/drinks? Just curious.

No, the extras are for the restaurant to keep.
It actually winds up being profitable if the price-fix per plate is 35.00 and the restaurant keeps 25 then 10 dollars per person is going to the band and dancers. People will often hem and haw about paying 10 bucks for a dance event but think nothing of spending 35 on dinner.

Originally Posted by caasious

What if the venue had a slightly different feel??

You could try booking a community hall - sell tickets (same as a cover), and offer a cash bar. The ticket price could include munchies (ie. hummus and pita chips on the tables) or to keep costs low, have people bring a potluck appy item to share.

I love this idea. I love it so much I did it a few years ago -- and promptly lost my shirt. Helped on the taxes that year, but hubby wasn't very happy with the loss. Now, to be honest, my promotion should have been much better than it was, but the costs involved were enormous -- mostly because I wanted a classy, elegant feel for it.

The hall was gorgeous (one section of a ballroom) and very expensive, even though I paid the lowest price available because I was an employee. I rented linens, cocktail tables/chairs, china, flatwear, real glasses and real coffee cups, coffee/tea service, even a couple of natural-looking ficus trees. I bought some decorations because I could use them again. I hired bar service (I received the proceeds from the cash bar, but paid a tremendous amount of money for the bartender and alcohol), provided coffee, tea, munchies, and baklava. I paid professionals to perform, encouraged tipping and tipped them myself. I got out of paying for a security guard only because of my employee status and my boss was bribing me to work the next day! Oh! and I didn't have to pay for a separate dressing room for the same reasons. Oops, almost forgot about paying an another large amount for liability insurance -- the alcohol service about doubled the usual cost.

Everything was lovely, the dancing was good, and everyone who attended seemed to have a good time. I did, too.

Hall rentals are very expensive here; although basic rooms in a community center are less expensive, they also aren't very conducive to any sort of elegance or classiness (is that a word?).

*sigh*

I'll keep looking!

Deborah

Originally Posted by lana

try an indie coffeehouse! it seems most cities have one..indie coffeehouses often have stages..not huge stages but so what?!
often in restaurants we don't have much room anyway!

...i do student showcases there. don't pay a dime! in fact, the coffeehouse loves it because they sell more scones - and we don't charge cover to our guests.

i pass the hat around asking for donations and give that money to an animal shelter...so it's win-win all around!

the coffeehouse wins, the students get experience, it's laid back, and most importantly - we give back to the community thru the animal shelter!!!! let me know if this works for you!
xoox

Coffeehouses are a blast! You get the benefits of dancing for the GP, it is also more accessible to the GP (they see a bellydance show through the window going on and drop in) and the hafla feel at the same time. Plus as Lana said, it's much more inexpensive and less stress.

Originally Posted by david

What is wrong with putting up showcases in dance studios?

Well, as a matter of fact, David, your post inspired me to call the parks and rec dept of one of the cities in which I teach and inquire about renting the studio where I conduct classes; it's a unique old building that I have considered using in the past. It has it's challenges, but would probably work well. I'm expecting a call back tomorrow. Let's cross our fingers!

Deborah

Originally Posted by dunyah

... [M]ost of the studios around here are just way too small for a show if you want any audience at all. They don't have much dressing room/bathroom space, either.

Dunyah, I agree with the size issue of the vast majority of studios. As it so happens, one of the City's studios at which I teach is very large -- probably over 1,000 square feet -- so it would easily accommodate the size audience I would expect to have. This particular building also has a basement for a dressing room and two restrooms.

Let's see, would rent chairs (the folding chairs at this venue are a mess -- lots of kids programs use the space), and maybe some lighting (the lighting is somewhat dim -- which makes me look good -- but people do like to see the dancers!). Provide snacks and beverages in the small lobby area . . . . Also have to think about a back drop. What else?

*rubs hands together*

Well, I'm getting excited again . . . even the sun has come out a bit from this June gloom we're having in Southern California right now. Hopeful sign???

Deborah

Originally Posted by lana

try an indie coffeehouse! it seems most cities have one..indie coffeehouses often have stages..not huge stages but so what?!
often in restaurants we don't have much room anyway!

...i do student showcases there. don't pay a dime! in fact, the coffeehouse loves it because they sell more scones - and we don't charge cover to our guests.

i pass the hat around asking for donations and give that money to an animal shelter...so it's win-win all around!

the coffeehouse wins, the students get experience, it's laid back, and most importantly - we give back to the community thru the animal shelter!!!! let me know if this works for you!
xoox

This sounds wonderful. I have considered looking into coffee houses. Soooo . . . what are the indications that any given coffee house is "indie?" Help me! I'm so out of it when it comes to all this cool stuff!

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

This sounds wonderful. I have considered looking into coffee houses. Soooo . . . what are the indications that any given coffee house is "indie?" Help me! I'm so out of it when it comes to all this cool stuff!

Deborah

Not a Starbucks, Caribou Coffee or Dunkin' Donuts - just an independent owner.

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

forget the restaurant idea entirely. If you are performing and by association bringing business into their establishment then they need to pay you for a professional show. Never the other way around. If you just want to do a pro night for the community then rent a theatre or performance space - bill it as such - sell tickets - pay the dancers. Maybe have refreshments in the lobby. And you'd be surprised about students dancing for the GP. They tend to bring the most audience members and have the most fun. In some case their entourage may save your show. And the GP are very understanding when you make an introduction explaining that they are a student studying with so and so and performing this and that.

Quite a number of years ago, I made the following interesting observation: performing students actually attract (well, can get to come) the largest number of people! I guess that might lead one to the conclusion that many BDers don't really want to see other BDers belly dancing -- they show up mostly when they get to dance themselves.

*sigh*

Deborah

PS: so sorry to hear about your showcase, Eshta; I have no words of wisdom, but I feel for you.

Originally Posted by Fotia

Not a Starbucks, Caribou Coffee or Dunkin' Donuts - just an independent owner.

So "indie" means "independent." I get it!

Thanks!

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Quite a number of years ago, I made the following interesting observation: performing students actually attract (well, can get to come) the largest number of people! I guess that might lead one to the conclusion that many BDers don't really want to see other BDers belly dancing -- they show up mostly when they get to dance themselves.

*sigh*

Deborah

PS: so sorry to hear about your showcase, Eshta; I have no words of wisdom, but I feel for you.

I think it just reflects the 'friends/family' factor. If it's a students first or second performance, everyone she knows turns up to cheer her on. By the time you've been dancing for 5-10 years, you can't even get your mom to come.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I think it just reflects the 'friends/family' factor. If it's a students first or second performance, everyone she knows turns up to cheer her on. By the time you've been dancing for 5-10 years, you can't even get your mom to come.

I have a hard time getting more than 1 or 2 students to go anywhere, even though they'll ask where I dance and say they want to see me. Yeah. Right.

My mom comes when she's able, but that's probably only because she's a retired BDer herself and is so happy that the family business is continuing for a second and third generation! ..g.:

Deborah

Yeah, I worked in event planning for 3 years and that's standard procedure for a restaurant/hotel private dining room. You have a fixed menu and a F&B (food and beverage) minimum and/or a room rental. They're able to adjust the menu if you request a vegetarian option, that's not a problem. You'll always need to give guarantees for number of people since they need to plan ahead of time to make sure they have enough food on hand. Some rooms or menus will require a minimum head count.

I think some people gave good suggestions for alternatives that will work better for this scenerio!

Hey Debs, I have done both the buffet way at the restaurants like Samera suggests and the dance studio venues. Both worked out well. The coffee house is a great way to go too.
I used my own dance studio and rented little round tables and small foldng chairs from a wedding events place (they delivered and picked up it ran abut 100.00) and I ordered fancy pizza's (yes veggie ones too) as something to munch on. I charged a 5.00 cover which helped with the expenses. One time the local lions club came in and did the adult beverages as they have a liquor license and can sell as a fund raiser. They did beer and wine. Just tossing some ideas out there for you. I also did a couple of very nice events in empty stores and did the rented table and chair thing. I rented the store fronts for an evening, had to do my own cleanups but it was a great event, I found that the landlords were pretty open to a reasonable rent (Cheap) since the buildings were vacant any way and they wernt making anything off of them. Now, this may seem like an odd one, but most bowling alleys have great community rooms that are big and open to rent out, They use them for birthday parties and such, even wedding receptions and they are usually pretty reasonable plus food and drink is available. Once the doors are shut you cant hear the lanes!

Originally Posted by casbahdance

]
The hall was gorgeous (one section of a ballroom) and very expensive, even though I paid the lowest price available because I was an employee. I rented linens, cocktail tables/chairs, china, flatwear, real glasses and real coffee cups, coffee/tea service, even a couple of natural-looking ficus trees. I bought some decorations because I could use them again. I hired bar service (I received the proceeds from the cash bar, but paid a tremendous amount of money for the bartender and alcohol), provided coffee, tea, munchies, and baklava. I paid professionals to perform, encouraged tipping and tipped them myself.

This isn't a showcase. It's a wedding reception!

Tone it down, way down. People come because their friend/sister/niece/coworker is performing in her first bellydance show. They don't care about linens and crystal and bartenders, and they won't pay extra for that stuff.

If you want to do it, just 'cuz you enjoy putting together something slick and it's fun for you, then go right ahead. But know that you're doing it for *you* and that you're the one who's going to have to pay for it.

Otherwise, set up at community center, ask the dancers to each bring a dish in lieu of paying admission, and set out some paper plates and forks. At my studio parties I don't serve alcohol because of the insurance issue. I provide soft drinks and no one has complained (but I'm not frisking them for flasks, either).

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I think it just reflects the 'friends/family' factor. If it's a students first or second performance, everyone she knows turns up to cheer her on. By the time you've been dancing for 5-10 years, you can't even get your mom to come.

And moms are always the last to go and the best support! Remember those other recitals they came to when you were a kid? They would be sitting there watching you like you were performing at Carnegie Hall! ..l;,..l;,