Thread: What income bracket likes bellydance?

I was discussing this with a teacher who is located in what used to be a worse section of the city, but has somewhat improved over the last 10 years or so. She feels the area still has a bad reputation, which may keep away new students from this particular studio, and thus is considering relocating.
I am not sure what to think of this, as I will travel bravely into any dark alley for a quality dance lesson! Also, I am not a native, so the whole "city reputation" thing is totally over my head. So here are some questions for everyone, students and biz owners.

What income bracket do you feel tends to take/enjoy belly dance?

Does the area your studio is in reflect the wealth of the students you end up with-or will everyone travel to wherever that is close to them for lessons?

Would you travel to a "not choice" part of town for lessons when you were first starting out?

Given the choice, would you
Choose to stay in a not as wealthy area where you had students who could easily access you
or
Move to a wealthier area, and start a student base virtually from scratch?


Thanks for any and all opinions!
Nikki

Broad income bracket, but obviously people with some disposable personal income. In my country there seems to be a disproportionate number of women in technical fields and professions often perceived as "masculine", and also people interested in esoteric things and alternative health practice, or people training in those areas, *or* stay at home mums. Um, let me pull up some memories - factory business owner, dog control officer, computer programmer, army employee, medical doctor, scientific researcher, teachers of various persuasions (often tertiary), massage therapists (several of those), an optometrist, landscape gardener, office administrator, tech support officer, taxidermist (!).... it's pretty broad.

I operate out of two locations - one in an extremely expensive suburb full of ladies that lunch and single corporate types, one in a disadvantaged neighbourhood that houses recent immigrants and lower income earners. Interestingly, business is strong from both sides of the fence. The expensive neighbourhood (let's call it East) pay 90% by credit card and are happy to prepay early. The other neighbourhood (West) pay in cash and like to try before they buy. East find me through the net, West read their local paper.

I offer a wider range of classes in the East, because it can sustain more business, plus they are more likely to come to extra workshops and social events. West stick to their weekly class and that's about it. I sell more expensive hip scarves in East, but still sell plenty of budget priced ones at West.

Despite the low income area, I think West works because it's surrounded by rapidly growing suburbs (young homeowners have been priced out of East) with limited infrastructure and activities. So there's not a lot of competition out that way. I'm in the dodgy suburb because it's the only one for miles with an excellent, mirrored facility. Most people have never heard of the suburb, and some don't wish to visit it. However, once students do come and find a great facility and a great class, they're sold.

That said, I think it's important that a venue in a dodgy location is safe, including walking to the car. And their studio experience needs to feel like an oasis, or fun escape, from the world outside. So having drunken bums yelling on your doorstep, for example, wouldn't work!

Well, back when I worked in radio advertising sales and had access to market research software, I pulled up some stats on people in our local DMA (designated market area) who have attended dance performances (of any kind, not BD since that wasn't an option).

Households with incomes of $75K+ were the most likely to go catch a dance performance, which didn't really surprise me. Household incomes of $100-150K, and $150K+ actually indexed significantly lower than I thought.

Then again, I can say from my personal experience that even in Connecticut, my "fans" (major corporate clients notwithstanding) have always been on the upper middle class side. Once in awhile, I'll get a Super Sweet Sixteen in Darien or somewhere swank, but the extremely affluent actually seem to be in the minority of people who hire me.

Always remember, this information will vary from region to region - and possibly from dancer to dancer. One performer might have something about her that extremely affluent audiences love, while another might appeal more to the working class. Of course, neither one is right nor wrong.

Don't you wish some super rich belly dancer would outsource a market research firm to get inside the heads and wallets of those who hire us? I really want to find out what guides the average client's decisions - and if that lines up with everything we think we know about promoting ourselves.

I have no idea. My students vary so much in their background and reasons for coming in the first place.

Yes, and to RakGirl's point, something that bears mentioning is that students and gig clients are two totally separate markets.

Re-reading your original post a little more carefully, I don't have a whole lot of personal insight on students, because I'm strictly a performer. ,f::

There are certainly a number of areas in my city that I would not consider traveling to for dance classes (or any other business transactions) if at all possible. And, tellingly I think, none of the instructors I know here are located in those areas.

As far as whether someone should move a studio, I think that depends in large part on one important question: how's business? If the instructor has a good, solid student base with a decent influx of new students who are all paying the going rate or above, I'd think long and hard about uprooting. However, if business is dwindling or if former students have complained about the location and have left, and if you can eliminate other possible reasons for a decline in students, it might be worth considering.

I love the fact that bellydance is one of the few places where you can mix with all different types of people, from admin assistants to biotech ph.ds to housecleaners. Otherwise I would be pretty isolated in my own socio-economic class and profession if I only met people through work for example. Huge age range too and life experiences, from teens through sixties, married people, unmarried moms, college students, grandmothers...I was just at a hafli yesterday experiencing the "sisterhood of dance" - it definitely can exist given the right atmosphere to blossom in.

Boston has a lot of bellydance teachers and classes, and no matter where the studio is, there are people who go there. Several of my classes have been in a rather sketchy neighborhood (but I feel safe there - it's not sketchy to me).

You're talking about students? My students are pretty solidly middle class, but that also reflects my area.

Lower income women can't afford to take classes, and the wealthier women spend their free time doing things that are either of a charity nature or that enhance the standing of their families in the community. (sounds terribly stereotypical, but those women live with a lot of pressure).

Some exceptions, of course, but that's how it generally works in my area. I have more teachers than any other single profession, by the way, while my yoga classes have more interior decorators/designers.

p.s. The first class I ever went to was in a neighborhood with an iffy reputation.

I was alone, at night, driving to a totally unfamiliar area with some vague directions in my hand. I found a place to park blocks away. I walked past a shabbily dressed man peeing on a building, then another one doing who-knows-what behind a bush. I *was* a little frightened when I passed the bush.

During the class, a cockroach scrambled through the room and the teacher nonchalantly killed it and swept it away with a broom which I imagined she kept handy just for that purpose.

Then of course I had to walk back to my car, alone, even later at night. The guys were still there and they said things to me but their speech was so slurred I don't know what they were saying.

I enjoyed the class, and later took a class at a different location with the same teacher. I didn't make a conscious decision not to go back, but each week when it was classtime I found excuses not to get in my car and go.

well I guess they're mostly middle class then.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I love the fact that bellydance is one of the few places where you can mix with all different types of people, from admin assistants to biotech ph.ds to housecleaners.

Oooh, this is a VERY good point. I'm thinking now of the larger BD scene in St. Louis, rather than my small suburban segment. We do have a wiiiide range of day jobs, and I love that.

I would say in our area it really does go from lower middle all the way to upper middle class, but the later is not represented as much as the middle class.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

p.s. The first class I ever went to was in a neighborhood with an iffy reputation.

I was alone, at night, driving to a totally unfamiliar area with some vague directions in my hand. I found a place to park blocks away. I walked past a shabbily dressed man peeing on a building, then another one doing who-knows-what behind a bush. I *was* a little frightened when I passed the bush.

During the class, a cockroach scrambled through the room and the teacher nonchalantly killed it and swept it away with a broom which I imagined she kept handy just for that purpose.

Then of course I had to walk back to my car, alone, even later at night. The guys were still there and they said things to me but their speech was so slurred I don't know what they were saying.

I enjoyed the class, and later took a class at a different location with the same teacher. I didn't make a conscious decision not to go back, but each week when it was classtime I found excuses not to get in my car and go.

I don't know if I could deal with cockroaches! Of course I live in the north and it's rare to have cockroaches here - I've only seen a few in my whole life and most of those were on vacations in warmer climes.

And the first thing I thought when I read your post - "thank goodness there are no bushes in central square."

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I don't know if I could deal with cockroaches! Of course I live in the north and it's rare to have cockroaches here - I've only seen a few in my whole life and most of those were on vacations in warmer climes.

And the first thing I thought when I read your post - "thank goodness there are no bushes in central square."

..l;,

The whole shabbily-dressed-men-peeing-and-talking-in-slurred-voices is much more common in the city than it is the suburbs, of course -- I'm just not used to it any more.

When I lived in San Fransisco, I once walked past a homeless man who chose that moment to start peeing on the sidewalk. It was one of those steep downhill slopes you only get in SF, so the bum pee chased me down the hill. I was wearing pumps and a narrow skirt. Here's my face as I clicked down the hill as fast as I could: .w.:

It's a hilarious scene to me ... now!

I'm gonna preface this with - i'm not an instructor, but I'm completely addcited to this part of the forums and so I hope it's okay that I chime in.

As a dance student in the type of city where these differences are very noticeable - Chicago - I wanted to say that a 'not choice', as you put it and I think that's a good way of saying it, part of town is different than a 'not safe' part of town.

I moved to "The Big City" from CO, which is just plain small-town all over, admit it ;), even when you're in Denver. There are skeezey parts of Denver, yes, but now I can admit that whole state is just plain nice all over.
anywho
I now know that there are places in my neighborhood here in Chicago that I consider on a scale of unsavory-ness. And those areas may or may not be actually dangerous to be in by myself, as I pretty much always am/will be for the transit to and from dance class.
The street the studio I take in now is not very attractive (the studio itself is the bright spot in the entire neighborhood, in my opinion, the only thing with color the whole street up), but it's also not teeming with activity, it's in a residential area. I don't ever feel unsafe at the studio, even at night, because there really isn't anyone out and about up to what I consider to be unsavory-looking things.


A lot can be done to affect the impression your students would get of your studio on the inside that will factor into their sense of well-being while at dance class.
When I was dancing in Ft Collins, CO, an absurdly quaint and nice little town, we had a back-up studio for our weekly classes that was a straight-up ballet studio.
I flippin hated that studio, HATED IT, even though it was a designated dance studio in a fairly nice building. The room wasn't right for what we were up to at all, and it was in the middle of b.f.e. on a backroad, and the thing that bugged me most of all, particularly becuz it was a full-time studio, was that it had only the bathroom faucet for drinking water for us, and it was only a smidge above functioning at any time.

I know it's not a huge complaint and I'm sure there are a bajillion other studios that aren't able to fix that little whiny complication, but the fact that the place was so damned drab really made me feel even less enthused about having class there. It was grey and lame and blaaaah.

Originally Posted by micamica

Does the area your studio is in reflect the wealth of the students you end up with-or will everyone travel to wherever that is close to them for lessons?

I find that there are two main reasons people decide on which class to take - proximity to where they live, and a time/day that's convenient. I teach in 4 different locations currently, and the demographic changes a bit for each place because the communities have slightly different makeups. For the most part, my students are middle/upper class, but that's just reflective of the areas I teach in.

Most people who have a limited income choose bellydance because it is the most affordable. Even yoga classes are higher, at least in the general vicinity of where I live.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Don't you wish some super rich belly dancer ...

Non sequitor!

Thanks for all the opinions everyone-I've been out sick the last couple of days so I hadn't had a chance to catch up. OMG Lauren-I almost spewed the contents of my water bottle onto the screen when I heard about your escape from the "yellow tide"! That is absolutely hilarious, in a movie or something, but crazy in real life!
So what I'm gathering from this conversation is that safety, or the feeling of it, is very important. While the current studio is near public transportation, I have never really seen anyone use it. This is possibly because class is out after dark most of the year, and I don't think many students (especially lone females) want to hang out and wait or walk to the transit stop.

Also, it sounds like several people felt the physical attractiveness (at least on the inside) of a studio was important. The current studio is very attractive inside, although there really aren't any mirrors to speak of-just a couple of very small narrow ones that are there to reflect light near the windows.

Now that I think about it, income bracket is a little bit reflected in the classes at this location. Those new students who do stay are generally younger, less wealthy, but perhaps a bit more comfortable in a "not so classy" neighborhood. The advanced/intermediate students generally have decent, at least middle class jobs. Possibly this is because they have had the disposable time and income to devote to becoming an intermediate level student. They also seem comfortable in the neighborhood, possibly because they have been attending class for so long and know there have never been any problems.

So, moving to a different studio-any more opinions there? Genvieve mentioned considering current student base, etc, and this definitely is a factor. The teacher is considering keeping the current location (only used 1 day a week) for the intermediates who have been with her for a long time, but perhaps choosing another location for the newbies. Any thoughts?
The more I think about it, after reading this forum, the better an idea that seems to me, but I do appreciate other thoughts/opinions.
Thanks,
Nikki

IF you move, don't be surprised if you lose a large part of your student base when you do it. A lot of people only do something like bellydance if it's super-convenient, especially those not-so-dedicated beginners. Intermediate/advanced students are more likely to make the effort to travel to their favorite class. But if the place is good, it may work out well in the long run, as you may build up a bigger business.

I once moved locations 10 mins drive away, and only one student from my original location transferred across. I was quite upset, but it's all worked out fine, as the new venue was so much better.

Wow, only 10 minutes away and only 1 person came? That does seem like a big drop, but maybe the others already had to drive 15-20 and just couldn't do another 10.
I am not actually sure where the teacher is thinking of relocating to- I didn't think to ask! She definitely isn't changing anything until after the summer, so I am pretty sure she is just considering the pros and cons of moving at this point.
I don't know where her drop in students are coming from either, maybe I should suggest she take sort of a mini poll when people come to class? Who knows, maybe she could find a place nicer and closer! Thanks for the opinions everyone, they are all definitely appreciated!
Nikki

Originally Posted by micamica

Wow, only 10 minutes away and only 1 person came? That does seem like a big drop, but maybe the others already had to drive 15-20 and just couldn't do another 10.
Nikki

Yup, I was surprised. This was in my 'west' location, and I always get a higher turnover out that way. The majority of students seem to come along for just a term or two, just for fun, then that's it. So, once the class wasn't on their doorstep, they lacked the motivation to go that little extra distance.

I've had far less students advance levels in my 'West' than in my 'East' classes (the richer side of town). Perhaps it's because one term of dancing is a splurge that's worth it, but they can't afford to do it every term. Or maybe people with lower education levels are less likely to get serious about learning new skills? No idea, but there's definitely *some* reason why that side of town is mainly 'recreational'. It's frustrating, but I have to recognise the reality and cater to that need. What's especially difficult is it means I can't necessarily offer the super-advanced classes my few really keen students need...and that makes me sad for them.

Oh, and on the up-side, my recreational west ladies are such a fun bunch to teach!

bumping, interesting read..