Thread: Best link about undercutting?

I am looking for a link to post about undercutting? Anyone have a good one on your site? I would like the link to counter act the constant problem in my area (or try)
This would be a link for client (non dancers to read when hiring a belly dancer)
Thanks for any help!!!

I'm dying to write an article on undercutting, too. Give me a day or two to blog about it and I'd gladly let you link to my $0.02, as well.

Golf claps and link-sharing love to Shems and Michelle Joyce, who have both addressed the issue exquisitely:

Michelle Joyce writes about How to Charge for the Gilded Serpent

Behind the Rates - Why Belly Dancers Charge What They Do by Shems

Thanks, I want them because I don't just want it as my own opinion on my website. Been told by a client that the local undercutter let her know that anyone not charging the $50 per set price she charges is "full of herself". Really? Well I guess I'm full enough to charge a normal rate.

I am coming to the conclusion that many people struggle to come up with a more creative insult than "full of herself." Been hearing a lot of misuses these days ,r:;

For instance, I can't think of anything more selfish than undercutting other business owners in your local community because you personally feel the need to stick your finger in every piece of the BD pie.

Looking forward to seeing how you address this on your website. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to get my point across without sounding too mean. It's just not always easy to find a tactful way to talk about an ugly problem

Morocco has a good article. It is not newly written but is (sadly) still relevant:
Welcome to Morocco's Meanderings
(I can't link directly to the article...go to "articles" on the left-side menu, and clink on "If Prices Are Up All Over, Why Are Dancers Getting Less?")

You might also be able to utilize Samira's rates project if your area is represented:
belly dance rates

(These might be more dancer-oriented than you are looking for, not general public, but they came immediately to mind.)

Wow, more good stuff! I've always loved Aunt Rocky's article. Thanks, Monica!

Just remembered another really good one.
Gilded Serpent presents...
Calling all professional dancers!
How much do you charge?
by Nanna Candelaria

"It's just not always easy to find a tactful way to talk about an ugly problem"

Maybe we should just all say that! And add a link!

The problem lies in the GP not knowing what to expect at all when hiring a belly dancer, so local unercutter goes and says that $50 is the top rate you should pay? Not getting of the sofa for that! (so I guess I really am full of myself huh?)

Thanks for all the threads links ladies!
If anyone who IS one of these links is reading... Can we use them to help the cause or would you rather we did not?

Originally Posted by faaria

.... Been told by a client that the local undercutter let her know that anyone not charging the $50 per set price she charges is "full of herself". Really? Well I guess I'm full enough to charge a normal rate.

My response would be "Goodness no. I run a business and simply can't work at a loss. I'm sure you understand that a professional looks at things from that professional/business perspective."

I believe the links best for clients are written with clients in mind. I'd love for you to share my link with other dancers in your area. Maybe I should write another article specifically for the client. All the articles posted here are great. Shems' article is excellent for a client, I think. ..g.:

Thanks good reply! I use the same responses but when you have a so called "pro belly dancer" giving them just the opposite info it is hard, as you most likely know!
I like Shems' article as well, very well written!
I feel tha adding a link will be another layer in counter acting desporate undercutters.

I think the best way to counter desperate undercutters is, plain and simple, to be better than them. A little education always helps, but setting a great example is what will really allow dancers like us to go the distance.

Even when undercutters are driving me insane, I remind myself that like attracts like. So naturally, classy and professional dancers will attract equally respectable clients. At least, that's my take on karma, these days!

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

My response would be "Goodness no. I run a business and simply can't work at a loss. I'm sure you understand that a professional looks at things from that professional/business perspective."

Great answer! I'm filing this in my mental catalog in case somebody asks me to do their birthday party pro bono.

This does make me wonder if we suffer from a misconception that we're hobbyists. Yet another reason why I'm such a huge advocate of going into this game with a marketing plan that includes a beautiful website and photos, informative ad copy that describes every detail of your shows, stellar communication skills, and contracts. Business savvy could be one of the single most potent antidotes to the "amateur" misconception.

Not that there's even anything wrong with dancing on a hobbyist level. It's just too late for me to think of a better word that connotes not doing business like a businessperson

I was looking for an article geared towards customers last night.

Samira - you should write one!

I have been getting a lot of flack from customers stating I charge too much (I charge the set rates for my area).

Even though I explain, I would love to attach an article which explains "I charge XXX because....."

Boy, have I been looking for something like this.

I loved what you put in your FAQ also, Satin.

Thanks, Brea! I'm wondering if I should eliminate it as an FAQ and move it to my blog, where I might be able to expand on it a little more...

Satin - I'm not so sure. On the FAQ people are sure to read it. I myself have been thinking of putting something similar on mine.

Seriously, this is an issue that doesn't deserve all of us pussyfooting around.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Satin - I'm not so sure. On the FAQ people are sure to read it. I myself have been thinking of putting something similar on mine.

Seriously, this is an issue that doesn't deserve all of us pussyfooting around.

I'd have to agree that this topic deserves something of a delicate treatment. It looks way better to linger on the positive aspects of hiring a pro than on the negative side to hiring somebody for cheap. All it takes is to say "you get what you pay for," and people should know what you're getting at.

I also think, however, that ignoring the issue won't make it go away. Be respectful, exercise tact and caution, be gracious toward the dancers in your community who charge what they're worth. But call spades spades when needed.

When I was shopping for web designers, each one of them ran the "you get what you pay for" spiel by me. Photographers do this. Vendors and installers always did this to me back when I worked in construction. We spent entire sales meetings at my last job learning how to convince clients that their advertising dollars would go further with our heritage station than the Top 40 Station Down the Street who sold :60 spots for $30 each. It's not a matter of dancers being big fat meanies who love to cut others in their industry down. It's the near-universal phenomenon that every industry has its standards of professionalism and diehard professionals in any trade will very often act very protectively toward their right to make a living on their hard work.

Yes, that's true. I'm all for having it on our sites somewhere.

This is a strange business, in that it is often not treated as one, and we have the competitive/cooperative type of thing going on. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with a lot of this kind of education would be, since I wasn't there when they were handing out tact. As a prof once told me "You have to hold their hands and lead them into it"...while I'm the type of person to throw them in to teach them to swim, which probably doesn't work as well. ..l;,

Don't feel bad. There's a lot about this business that I don't really "get," either. But I think that's a conversation best saved for the next Bad-Ass BD Troupe meeting

Ironically, I feel that the best way to build community is to have a civilized conversation about the stickier issues. It's disapproval in the spirit of long-term cooperation!

All very good thoughts and ideas!
I am with you, let us stop pussy footing around! It is the undercutter who should be explaining themselves, OH wait mine did by suggesting that anyone who charged more was "full of herself". I am going to add a link and address it. (my thoughts to be positive as well!).
I have all things in place, contracts, website, all that is needed in this business only to have to explain myself again and again (which usually makes me wonder why they call me as my base price is listed and the local undercutter also has her "$50 Affordable" listed? Just go with the cheaper one right why call?)

Originally Posted by faaria

-snip-
(which usually makes me wonder why they call me as my base price is listed and the local undercutter also has her "$50 Affordable" listed? Just go with the cheaper one right why call?)

This is the exact way I talk to potential clients. If they ask about someone else's prices being lower I tell them they are more then welcome to hire that performer but my prices are firm and reflect the quality of what I do.

You would be surprised at the turn of events that transpire. I have booked gigs with clients who have called and up-front said they were bargain hunting, but book me because I maintain my professional tone and demeanor.