Thread: How to get started without undercutting

I've danced intensely for two years and performed on various social events. I feel ready to bring myself "out there", perform professionally and get paid for what I do. ,r:;
My first thought was that I'm not yet on that highly experienced level of dancing, so I shouldn't charge as much as the dancers who are. For example, I haven't mastered most prop dances, like sword, cane, zills, and I'm not experienced in dancing to live music. The client should get what they pay for, if you know what I mean. But then I read on this forum and in several blogs about the various problems of undercutting.
So what do you ladies think I should do? ..c::

Originally Posted by reblossom

I've danced intensely for two years and performed on various social events. I feel ready to bring myself "out there", perform professionally and get paid for what I do. ,r:;
My first thought was that I'm not yet on that highly experienced level of dancing, so I shouldn't charge as much as the dancers who are. For example, I haven't mastered most prop dances, like sword, cane, zills, and I'm not experienced in dancing to live music. The client should get what they pay for, if you know what I mean. But then I read on this forum and in several blogs about the various problems of undercutting.
So what do you ladies think I should do? ..c::

There's another thread on here discusses the issues attached to this question. The common misconception by dancers like yourself who are just setting out is that you are not worth the fee that other dancers charge. Big mistake. Set out as you mean to go on and do not undercut yourself. Don't think for one moment that a restaurant owner will want to give you a pay rise after x amount of months. Set your fee at whatever the going rate is around you area and do any other dancers a favour by keeping the fees at current rates.

If you feel you are not worthy of the professional fee other dancers are charging, then you shouldn't be working the professional circuit.

And never do freebies. That's an old con. Dance for free because the owner doesn't know who you are and how good you are. Bollocks. You go out here, set your fee and do your job. Always maintain your integrity and most importantly strike up a good rapport and relationship with other dancers in your area. If you behave professionally, you'll get treated as a professional.... in theory at least ..g.:..l;,

i tell my students there is two prices

- for free for your family, best friends. not for uncles of best cousins of a friend of a friend.

- the normal, full amount. i charge 200E for a solo set and 300E for two sets now. A little less when it's really IN town here where i live. Plus travel money if it's more than 30min drive.

if you think you are not good enough to charge that (or whatever the normal price is where you live, go online, ask your teachers, find out what restaurant prices are), wait till you know you are. meanwhile stick to dancing at hafla's and your best friends wedding.

If you charge any less you hurt yourself, your co-students, your teachers, the community.

sometimes it's worth it to wait. if you are ready though, you are worth it to be paid properly.

The transition from student to pro sure can be tricky. Do you have a trusted friend, teacher or mentor who can help you out? I used to follow my first teacher along to all of her gigs, and three years after starting a professional career, I still sometimes speed-dial her with sticky questions! Rule number one is that it's best not to go at this alone.

Also, a mentor can tell you whether she thinks you're ready to start performing professionally. I think the biggest mistake dancers make is to start seeking paid gigs before they're ready.

Of course, the Catch-22 of becoming a professional performer is that you learn some skills as you go along. It's a lot like how new moms learn to raise children by having one of their own! Certain things like audience participation and dancing for live musicians can be picked up along the way or sometimes learned in workshops. (Karim Nagi from Turbo Tabla has great workshops in dancer-drummer communication. Watch out for them, or for something similar!)

Other things, like finger cymbals, veil and sword? I really think you should feel semi-proficient dancing with props before you go pro. At large, general public audiences expect props. And you can't always fudge 'em.

My suggestion is to team up with a good teacher in your area and ask her for frank advice on your readiness, where you might want to improve, what people are charging. It sounds like you're not really sure, so why not do the best thing for your career and ease your way into it?

Ditto to what everyone has said.
In addition- I'm really glad to see you ASK about undercutting and trying to figure out what is best to do.
In the DC Baltimore area we have a minimum amount that professionals charge for parties and we have lots of pros who charge more. Find out if that is the case in your area. For example- the minimum is $200 for a 20 minute show. I usually charge $275-$300. It makes sense for there to be some variance in pricing based on knowledge, training, experience etc. As long as a dancer doesn't go below our (very reasonable) minimum, it's all good. There ARE people who charge less...but they are lowering the standards for everyone and going against agreements made by professionals.
Venues are a different story. If there are dancers at a restaurant, I recommend charging the same (or more)- or you'll be undercutting to get a gig. Undercutting will set you up for other dancers to not trust you at all, and for owners to feel they can take advantage of you; neither of which are good for you in the long run, nor are they good for the community.

I have some links that may be useful for you at this stage of the game
Standard rates and professional links and guidelines
performing and professionalism

Everyone above has given very good advice. I'll echo Satin's recommendation to find a mentor/teacher who can help guide you into the professional world.

Please please please do not dance for free or for less than standard pay. You may think you're doing yourself and your client a favor but as you become more seasoned, you'll realize the consequences of this action. Undercutters drive down the standard pay and once it's down, it's very difficult to bring back up. Respect yourself and the community.

Very in-demand dancers should be able to get more, but if you don't feel you're worth the minimum (standard) rate, then you're not ready to go pro.

Imagine how you'd feel if someone went to your boss and offered to do your job for 30% less money than you're being paid because, well, they're not very good at it.

For private parties, remember that clients are comparing your price to the cost of other entertainment, not necessarily other dancers. They're not thinking about whether you can zill or do cane. Find out what magicians, clowns, hula dancers and other professional entertainers charge. I don't know how it is in your area, but in most of the US they're getting MORE than most bellydancers. Knowing that can help you keep your rates up.

For the transition between student and pro, i would start on slow nights. this way, you don't have the pressure of performing for a large audience and there's less embarrassment on your part if you drop a sword.
Most GP audiences expect to see some sort of prop, especially sword, veil and zills, so i would perfect at least two of these before i went out.
A mentor would be a great asset if you have one. If not, try to cultivate a relationship with another professional dancer in your area and offer to go with her as an assistant to some gigs in exchange for her advice.
The most important thing - DO NOT charge less than the going rate. As long as you hold your head high and dance your booty off, nobody, and I mean nobody, should know that you have been dancing pro for only a week. Act like a consummate professional and you will be treated and PAID like one.
Good luck.

Satin hit the nail(s) on the head. Every point she has made is valid.
Get a mentor to assist you in bringing those last few pieces up to pro level (like zills & props), work with him or her to begin building your wardrobe, et cetera.

Originally Posted by Zobeida

For the transition between student and pro, i would start on slow nights. this way, you don't have the pressure of performing for a large audience and there's less embarrassment on your part if you drop a sword.

This is a great recommendation. Another tip, assuming that you're working with a mentor, is to work something out where you open for your teacher some night when she's performing. We did this frequently when I was a baby-dancer and it worked out great. I got the restaurant experience I craved and got to gradually ramp up from there to a point where I subbed for her when she was sick or had another gig - but the burden wasn't on me to call myself a pro until I was ready. (I subbed and did the opening act thing for about a year or two before I finally felt ready to hang a shingle outside my door).

Hmmm. When I'm done writing this series I'm working on, I just might have to blog about my experiences for a reference piece!

Thanks everybody for the great advice! I'm much less confused now. I think I will lay low with the professional thing for a while longer until I've developed more. Great idea about a mentor, I'll ask around my teachers if any of them would care to take me under their wing. :)
In the meantime I'll grab performance opportunities on social events, family parties and such. Create some fuzz...