Thread: UNDERCUT! In the BAY AREA!! AGAIN!!! This hurts all of us...

I was just undercut for the 3rd time in August. This is after a ring of fire (no one from my ring accepted just an FYI). The host accidentally called me back to confirm, with this dancers directions, address and time. OOPS!

Dear Dancer booked in the south bay at a private party an hour ago, who accepted a gig for $100-150 - I would like you to contact me privately and explain why you underbid me when you KNOW that is far below the standard rate for our area.

This is unacceptable. You are creating poor working standards for other dancers.

Surreyya

Please refer to these wonderful articles for more insight on pricing and professionalism:

Nanna speaks for many regarding gig pricing for the Gilded Serpent
Michelle Joyce writes about How to Charge for the Gilded Serpent

That sucks. Hopefully this was a irresponsible, one time decision on her part and will not do it again. Regardless if she is a baby belly or professional, she should understand that her actions have repercussions with in the community.

Thank you, Jasani, for your support. I hope other bay area dancers have the courage to stick to standards.

So sorry. Undercutting does suck eggs. Hopefully you get better jobs to replace the one you lost.

:(
Sorry Surreyya. Keep on keepin' on, and keep your standards high. Solidarity!

This just blows my mind. Everyone knows the rates in the Bay Area. Even up here in Sacramento, we know about the "golden gigs" a gal can get in the Bay Area. It really cheeses me that dancers want to pull Jodette crap down in the Bay Area! Why would anyone want to follow in her footsteps?!

ARRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

So sorry you have to put up with this ,f::

I'm going to donate a few articles of my own to your cause:

Required Reading on Rates | Carrara Nour

So You Want to Be a Professional Belly Dancer… | Carrara Nour

My $0.02 on Rates | Carrara Nour

Feel free to print them out and drop them from a helicopter over your town

Thank you ladies for chiming in. Standards don't work anywhere unless we practice what we preach. Even if it means losing work...3 times in the same month. I really could use that money right now.

Anywho, thanks everyone for your support! Appreciate the articles!

I'm going through the same thing. Lost two gigs to the same undercutter. The rest of my community is classy and does the right thing - but it doesn't even matter, when all it takes is one or two idiots to disrupt the balance for everyone.

In a down economy, it's even more important that we get paid what we're worth. So many of us dancers are underemployed, unemployed, or have a spouse who lost their job. I've been out of work for nearly 6 months. This isn't "fun" money anymore. Anybody who's ever tried to live on unemployment checks alone knows what I'm talking about....,r:;

Yes - recently laid off myself after 5.5 years at same company. What ever price gets set now will hold forward when times are better. If it is a low price, it will take forever to raise again.

I hope these girls are reading this and correcting their ways. If they hurt enough people it wont stay secret for long, and they will only damage their future networking and opportunities. For short term gain? Doesn't seem a good trade off.

This sucks. I know one dancer who called most of the other dancers in the area to find out what they were charging to "present a united front". She then proceeded to undercut them all...

I am so tempted to write a spoof article outlining the Top 20 reasons why $100 is better spent on extra munchies and booze than on a cheap belly dancer. But I know that in typical fashion, somebody will hail me as the antichrist for suggesting that we might want to raise the standard ,r:;

On a grim note, I just had to explain to a good friend of mine that it might NOT be a good idea to work for half her going rate under the client's promise that she'll get lots of tips. It makes me sad to see that people are actually stooping to the undercutters' level. We all deserve so much better ,f::

you know when the event is. not saying that you should confront her but you could always watch (from your car). Like park across the street or something..

I already know who it is. The party host actually left me a message for her by mistake and was then very embarrassed when I called back. I half think I should have shown up double booked just for fun, but it was a long drive. The gas would have been too expensive at $3.39 a gallon in my area.

Zorba, I know what you are talking about. That seems to be happening a lot around here lately!

Originally Posted by ravenadesigns

you know when the event is. not saying that you should confront her but you could always watch (from your car). Like park across the street or something..

um, no, scary

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

um, no, scary

Agreed. Not to bring up the suckage thread, but this would definitely be a case of one sucker attempting to outsuck another!

indeed...making one a supersucker. Plus stalking is so 1990s. I think a healthy guilt trip the way my mother practiced them is much more effective.

Mother's always know how to give good guilt trips.

Shada why don't you just call her and/or talk to her about it in person?

I plan to.

It is more than one person unfortunately (this month). One dancer keeps undercutting despite being called on it, by more than just me.

Additionally, I feel it is important that others should be alerted in my area and reminded that this is not cool - especially in these times! Posting a bulletin is quicker and easier than emailing and phone calls to the 20-30 dancers that I keep in regular contact.

[QUOTE=shadagirl;492467]
It is more than one person unfortunately (this month). One dancer keeps undercutting despite being called on it, by more than just me.
QUOTE]


Convicted undercutters should wear the "Scarlet U" on their bellas.

Even though it might not totally help the undercutting, the dance community can take it into their own hands by shunning undercutters. People undercut because they don't see any real punishments for undercutting. They don't see that in the long run it hurts everyone. They are too selfish. They know they can undercut a dancer one day and the next perform at her event for exposure while voicing their disgust about a "mysterious" undercutter. The threat of being ousted from the community might be enough to stop some of them.

Not to keep comparing to the Jodette problem in Sacramento but... she knows that we all know she undercuts. While that doesn't stop her, we have cut her and her "followers" out of our dance community. They do their thing and we do our thing and no one pretends to be one big happy belly dance family. This way we can make sure that the high rates we push for are shared with those that adhere to the rate standards for restaurant work as well as private party gigs.

Originally Posted by zorba

This sucks. I know one dancer who called most of the other dancers in the area to find out what they were charging to "present a united front". She then proceeded to undercut them all...

This is the kind of crap that makes me sick

Originally Posted by crystalllized

This is the kind of crap that makes me sick

Agreed. Sorry you all have to put up with that culture up in Sacramento Crystal, or anywhere else. I have kept quiet too long. Brought it to bhuz because I'm just plain tired of it.

Those that are behaving badly read this site regularly. Hopefully this has caught their attention and they will stop. If it keeps progressing, it won't be long till they shun themselves whether or not they are outed in a public forum. News travels fast regardless of public forums.

It's so hard to get anything worthwhile happening up here in Santa Rosa, or in Sacramento because of the problems that we keep running into by people who are undercutting.

I no longer dance at several places because of how low it is, however I've also had a break though w/ a group of dancers who had never gotten talked about before regarding "business" they were totally shocked/excited about the information and have since raised their prices and stuck to the ideals we are pushing here.

*hugs*

There are some of us out here still trying to make the fees right.

Go Mina!

So sorry to hear about this and although this doesn't make it right but it is rampant everywhere and in almost everything!
Keep the standards up and therefore the bar will remian higher!

Is there any chance this dancer doesNOT know that herrate is lowerthan everyone else's? Canshe be educated?

Unless that dancer is you, and you undercut my undercutters this month, they already know the going rates and they are in the professional circles.

Wow! How could one not know what the going rate is? There is absolutely no excuse for not knowing what the rates are - especially when we have one of the greatest communication tools - the Internet!

Perhaps a "wall of shame" is in order? Shunning sounds a bit silly actually. Some dancers purposely function outside the community because they don't like all the clicks, which is how it will be seen. But people looking for a dancer often use the internet. If there name come up in a search on a "wall of shame" along with their own pr site, the client may care or may not. But a client may actually ask them about it when they call to book a gig. That could be wonderfully embarassing.