Thread: Like pulling teeth...

[vent]

I swear, I am never hosting another workshop again....

This weekend, Adriana Lira is coming to NYC. I am hosting her. Why am I doing that? Because when I shopped the idea around, I got a lot of positive feedback from students and fellow dancers. "Yes, bring her. I'll definitely register." Ok, so I agreed.

Then I decided to hold the workshop in Manhattan. Why? Because when I was hosting Suha Azar (who cancelled the week before the workshop, let's not forget - that is my luck as a host), a lot of dancers complained that they weren't coming because the class was in Queens, where I live. So, I made it in Manhattan, where I don't live, and where it is more expensive to rent studio space, so that the turn out would be better and it would be more convenient for everyone.

The workshop is this Saturday and Sunday. I have one two-day registration, and one one-day registration. I have sent out emails, and posted on every local board and yahoo group, sent flyers to teachers, handed out hundreds of flyers in my own classes, and personally emailed everyone who contacted me with interest to follow up. No one I have reached out to is coming. In order to break even (which is really all I am asking for) I only need 10 two-day registrations. 10 people! In all of NY, NJ and CT!! That is not a lot to ask for!! And I am no where near that!!!

I call and I email and I beg and plead for people to come to these classes, and getting them to sign up is like pulling teeth, I swear!

Ugh, anyway, I don't know what I am going to do now that I can't even pay the studio rental fee. This stinks!!

[/vent]

Oh, Daniela, that's awful! You *could* still get enough people at the door, but then again, maybe not.

I wouldn't think 10 people would be too many to hope for. I personally don't know much about the instructor you're bringing, but then I didn't tell you I'd definitely register either.

People seem to think they're being polite and encouraging when what they're really doing is giving you false information to base business decisions on.

I think a lot of promoters face this problem, everyone is so enthusiastic when you say you are going to bring someone, but they don't follow through. I know locally our girls tend to come, just last minute, so the promoter is sweating bullets, then it works out fine in most cases. I hope you get more than 10, she is a great dancer and it would be a shame for people to miss her!

Thanks, ladies.

It's true, Lauren, I think people think they are being supportive by saying "Oh yeah, I'd love to go to that!" when in reality they are f*cking me over because I would never agree to sponsor someone if everyone said "No way, I wouldn't go to that" or even "I don't think I'd go".

Ugh. And my wedding is in one month. I do not need this stress added on top of my already stressful existence at this moment.....

Being a sponsor/producer can be a really thankless job. I hope it all works out. Try not to stress too much and hold the thought that people will show up at the door. Declare it out loud, I will get 10 registrations. I'll be rooting for you!

Yes, "thankless" is a good word for it! I can think of a few more, too.....

Daniela, I totally sympathize -- this is the hard part of sponsoring a workshop. Much harder than all the prep work, because at least you have control over that. There's nothing more frustrating than not knowing if you'll lose your shirt and having no control over it!! Sounds like you've done all you can do to get the word out... now you just have to wait and pray 10 dancers will show up at the door. It's entirely possible they will -- seems like no one wants to pre-register these days. Sending positive thoughts your way!!

Actually, I only need 8 1/2 more dancers.....not even a full 10! Come on people!!

And - any dancers in the area - even if you never had a desire to come to Adriana's workshop, can you please come anyway? Just cuz I'm begging you? ..cr.:

I totally understand where your coming from. I've had a simmilar situation before and it sucks :(

The only suggestion I have is to make sure you keep pushing it to the last min, and realize that it will work out and Hell you might even have people just "stop in" who take the class.

M

I can't go to this workshop as I'm already doing a few workshops this month (Jihan Jemal, Bozenka) and money's tight. Honestly, I didn't even know who Adriana was until I saw the workshop posted here on bhuz. It's hard to sponsor someone whose not a big name, especially in NY where there is so many good teachers. I heard that nobody showed up once to workshop that the Sharif's sponsored, so if it could happen to the Sharif's...
I did post it on the bellydance NYC meetup (both on the message board and in the calender, since I am an organizer). But I have trouble endorsing something that I don't know anything about. I've never seen her perform (live), or taken a class, etc. Ranya has been telling me about Jihan Jemal for a year so I was totally excited when I heard she was coming.
I think it's tough to sponsor someone in NY...

Yeah, it is tough to sponsor someone in NY. I understand that Adriana is not a big name on the east coast, but I honestly would not have agreed to sponsor her if I didn't get so much positive feedback from other NY dancers and students when I put feelers out months ago....(none of whom are coming, btw)

Sorry to hear that. I'm going on Sunday if that helps, so you only need 8 more . I hope this doesn't sound bitchy, but maybe you should try sponsoring better known people (yes, I'm blunt). Given the amount of workshops and classes available in our area by well-known dancers and instructors you can't be surprised that people have to pick and choose which ones to take. Your best bet was to get your students going, and why aren't they going?? Weren't they really interested in learning cane??

Originally Posted by amyraks

I can't go to this workshop as I'm already doing a few workshops this month (Jihan Jemal, Bozenka) and money's tight. Honestly, I didn't even know who Adriana was until I saw the workshop posted here on bhuz. It's hard to sponsor someone whose not a big name, especially in NY where there is so many good teachers. I heard that nobody showed up once to workshop that the Sharif's sponsored, so if it could happen to the Sharif's...
I did post it on the bellydance NYC meetup (both on the message board and in the calender, since I am an organizer). But I have trouble endorsing something that I don't know anything about. I've never seen her perform (live), or taken a class, etc. Ranya has been telling me about Jihan Jemal for a year so I was totally excited when I heard she was coming.
I think it's tough to sponsor someone in NY...

Took too long to submit my reply, I see Amy has beat to the punch. BTW, how was the Jihan Jemal workshop??

Originally Posted by Athallia

Sorry to hear that. I'm going on Sunday if that helps, so you only need 8 more . I hope this doesn't sound bitchy, but maybe you should try sponsoring better known people (yes, I'm blunt). Given the amount of workshops and classes available in our area by well-known dancers and instructors you can't be surprised that people have to pick and choose which ones to take. Your best bet was to get your students going, and why aren't they going?? Weren't they really interested in learning cane??

Yay! Another half a person!! Thanks, Athallia, looking forward to seeing you there!

Yep, as I said to Amy, I understand she is not well known around here, but I was going on the word of my friends and students that they would come.

Part of the problem is that most of my classes have been on hiatus until September, so although I did hound my students every day while I had them in front of me, as soon as classes were over for the summer, they all quickly forgot.

Good news...just got a friend and student (the only one registered for the weekend!) to agree to let Adriana stay with her for the weekend, in exchange for free sessions for one of my classes for the rest of her life! Just kidding, she would have done it anyway, I just offered the free classes because she's a really good friend.

So, that means I only need six full registrations now....and I have one and a half (Athallia, you'll make it two). Getting closer!

Originally Posted by Athallia

Took too long to submit my reply, I see Amy has beat to the punch. BTW, how was the Jihan Jemal workshop??

It was cancelled! I was so upset!! Jihan was stuck in Egypt but it's been rescheduled for Sept. 22 with a show at LG on the 23rd. She'll be performing, yeah!!

Daniela-- you have a lot of students but in order to get them to come to a workshop that you yourself are not teaching but sponsoring, you need to tell them why they have to come to this workshop. Students want to know what are they going to learn that's different that what you already offer them. Most of the workshops I've taken have been because my teachers have given them ringing endorsements (it's usually because they have learned something from them).

Dang! I wish you were closer to SF. I've seen her dance and she's lovely to watch.

That sucks! I suppose what people say can be quite different from what people end up doing.

Originally Posted by catwomyn

Dang! I wish you were closer to SF. I've seen her dance and she's lovely to watch.

That's what's so annoying. Lots of people think it's not worth going to a workshop if the dancer is not a "big name", but just because they aren't a "big name" does not mean they don't have something very valuable to teach! ,m::

Oh Daniela. I feel for you. As an organizer, you have to stick to your guns and do what keeps you sane at the end of the day, and hosting an event closer to home will probably keep you sane, unless you have an extensive network of support elsewhere.

I don't think it just that the instructor you chose to sponsor is relatively unknown. Its also that you yourself are pretty unknown in the NY dance community. You seem to mainly stick to private party gigs and your local classes. That's fine, there are plenty of other dancers who do the same thing, but they are not trying to sponsor big workshops outside their local student base.

Sure, an instructor doesn't need to be a big name to have something to offer but with all the great choices here, people want to know something before they commit their time and money. As Amy said, someone who is really not that well known and comes for a workshop is endorsed by the sponsor. If a dancer is well known and respected in the community and gives her ringing endorsement of an instructor that will inspire people to go. But if people don't know the instructor or you well then, as its been said, there are plenty of other workshops offered in the area where they have more to go on. People will put those at the top of their list.
Of course your own students know you, but I think most sponsors rely on pulling in more than just their own regular students when sponsoring an out of town instructor.
Also, it just a slow time. As you said your own classes are on hiatus for a couple of weeks, so are mine, so are many teachers'. It's just slow class time at the end of summer. And NY dancers have just been through the bombardment of summer workshops so timing may be an issue here too.

Just to make myself clear... it's not just the fact that Adriana isn't a "big name", It's the fact that no one seems to have a personal connection to her, at least on the East coast. Say... if you studied with someone who had a deep impact on your dance and then you sponsor that person to teach that can be the motivation for other people to take the workshop.
Two years ago, a dancer named Diana (who was just a student in NYC) sponsored Atef Farag. She had studied at American Univ. in Cairo for a summer and took classes with him. I think only the real serious Egyptian style dancers knew who Atef was and the workshop wasn't very well attended. I went the second day after friends told me how great he was (and he is!!). Also, I read an article about him in the Gilded Serpent which helped convince me to go the workshop. Atef had just come back from LA where he had a huge amount of students... Hala is his sponsor in LA and she is more well-known in LA than Diana is in NY. The next year Diana sponsored him again (he and his wife, Magda) and I think the turnout was better.
So all in all I think a successful workshops depends on many things, how well the sponsor is known in the community, how well the sponsor promotes the event and how well the teacher is known to the people who might be taking the workshop. Like Atef is well known to the Egyptian dancers, or like Ariellah who is coming in September, the whole tribal/gothic community knows who she is and will take that workshop, etc.
Hopefully I've made some degree of sense here. I'm sure Adriana is lovely person and a great performer/teacher... maybe if you got her booked at Lafayette Grill the night before the workshop or at Mezzo (on Sat.)-- that would probably bring in a lot of walk-ins. Earlier today, Magda had a cancellation at Lafayette... worth a shot.

You know sometimes, it just doesn't work, there could be a million reasons why. For this situation - it looks like you are getting up to break even, so you will be OK. If you only need 8.5 students to break even, does it mean your prices are too expensive (are you comparable with people in your area?). Can you ask a grab bag of well respected locals why they did not attend, and use this for future planning.

Also, perhaps hosting isn't your skill, perhaps you have killer haflas or shows instead? (I know what I'm talking about as I am the death knell for haflas/parties or shows, but can host very sucessful workshops, once I just accepted it, things were a lot less stressful).

<...climbs into flameproof galabeya...>

OK - perhaps cos I'm feeling a little defensive about having done this myself in the past - I just want to say something from the attendee's/student's point of view.

When someone canvasses you about a particular workshop / teacher / event, and you say 'oh, that's great, I'll definitely come to that!', it's not always about being super polite and telling the workshop organiser what you think they want to hear (although I suspect some people do just that). When I say that, I *mean* that. What I cannot predict at the time are all the variables - family commitments that come up in the meantime, unexpected house/car repair costs, ill health, another workshop at a similar time (e.g., same day, week, month) that I would prefer to go to.

Added to that (and this is the most annoying thing for workshop organisers), a lot of people leave making the decision about whether to come or not to the last minute. And if we're honest with ourselves, we *all* do this at various times, and I think it's fruitless getting angry with people about this kind of thing, as much as it winds us up.

As far as I can see the best way to mitigate some of this is:
- give yourself a cut-off date (and agree this with the teacher you're hosting). If I don't have X bookings by X date, the gig is cancelled.
- make some more realistic calculations about who is going to turn up. If 50 people say 'yes!', then assume that at the best 5 of those people will actually make it. That's a big step down, but if you err on the side of caution, you might be pleasantly surprised!
- other people have mentioned that cost / date are also factors, and I imagine this to be even more so in a huge city like NYC
- network - if people see you out and about and know who you are, they're more likely to come to events that you organise. Also, by networking, you can big up the teacher you're hosting.

On a more encouraging note...I really think you might be surprised at the number of people that show up on the day. Am keeping my fingers crossed for you...g.:
D

Ok...well, day one of the workshop was a success....

We ended up having six registratants (five of whom were my students!). Classes were INTENSE! Adriana is awesome! Everyone had a blast.

And to illustrate what I mean by "pulling teeth"...I had my Friday morning class yesterday and saw a student who had been swearing up and down that she was coming to the workshops this entire time. So I asked her why she hadn't signed up yet, and she giggled, made a sneaky smile and said "I made plans with my husband. We are going to the park." Um...ok.....these are the types people I based my decision of hosting the workshop on....

Anyway, everything is going well, except for the fact that Delta lost one of Adriana's bags and she has no clothes except for her costumes. Other than that, we are doing fine!

Here's some pics from the day:

Here's some pics:







Looking forward to seeing some more faces (yay Athallia!) tomorrow!

I'm not sure she's a big name on the West Coast. Never heard of her before this....

Agree with deelybopper,

When I heard Aziza was coming to Portland I was so happy...g.: I had planned on attending both workshops, but as time came closer I could not get any of my co-workers to trade shifts with me that weekend. I could have just taken off from work but that would entail loosing two days pay! Those two days have a big chunk of overtime that I count on to meet my financial obligations. With the cost of the two workshops I would have been out close to 400.00 dollars and I could not afford that loss.

Needless to say, I couldn't go and all I could do was cry......cr.: I cried even more when I found out that she had been asking about me in the workshops cause of our friendship here on BHUZ.... ..cr.: ..cr.: ..cr.:

Yeah, but really this thread wasn't about me complaining that no one wanted to go because she wasn't a big name. That's irrelevant. My issue was that I had lots of people telling me they'd come, so I relied on that to book the workshop, then those same people "made other plans" (read the story about my student in the posts with the pictures for an example).

I'm not going to debate whether Adriana Lira is a big name or not. Some people know her, some people don't. I was just frustrated that I relied on people who said they were going to come when making a business decision and those people bailed.

Edited to add: Yes, I too agree with deelybopper. Sometimes things just come up. But sometimes people just flake, which is what a lot of people in this situation did.