Thread: Need input from other instructors who teach at park & recs for a split

At the park & recs I work for, I have always gotten a 70/30 split per student. Non-residents pay approximately twice as much for the classes as residents do, and I have always gotten my percentage based on what each student pays. So needless to say, I make more on the non-residents than the residents.

I got an email from one of my park & recs this morning saying:

Recently the City Administrator (the top dog) pointed out to me that we should be paying you a flat rate for all your students, and that the additional fees for non-city residents should be coming to City, and not being passed on to you since the City incurs the expenses.

I'm really confused by this, although I will say that I don't know enough about how recreation programs work to say if this is unfair or just standard procedure. Does anyone know what the "expenses" would be that the city is incurring from non-residents that are not there for residents? I believe they all enroll and pay the same way; the only difference I know for sure is that residents can enroll earlier than non-residents.

I could ask her to elaborate, but I was hoping to enter the discussion with some foreknowledge if possible. If anyone could help me understand the underlying issue, I would be extremely grateful.

Does that mean you will be getting the same flat rate when let's say, many of the students might drop out because of their own lack of funds or when the city raises its rates? Sounds like municipal greed to me (and they are all on the same page on that one) so they must be counting on the fact that you will always have the same amount or more students in your class.

Originally Posted by Fotia

Does that mean you will be getting the same flat rate when let's say, many of the students might drop out because of their own lack of funds or when the city raises its rates? Sounds like municipal greed to me (and they are all on the same page on that one) so they must be counting on the fact that you will always have the same amount or more students in your class.

No, I believe what she's getting at is that I should get 70% of the Resident rate for all students, regardless of if they are residents or non-residents. Any extra money that comes in for the non-residents should go to the city instead of me.

Originally Posted by laura 2

No, I believe what she's getting at is that I should get 70% of the Resident rate for all students, regardless of if they are residents or non-residents. Any extra money that comes in for the non-residents should go to the city instead of me.

Well you can look at it this way - you are teaching every student equally at the same pay so nobody can say you are favoring the non-residents because they bring in more money to you (not that you would anyway). Let me ask around too - I know all municipalities are cutting back everywhere. I have two brothers-in-law who work for the City of Chicago and one of them is being cut 18 days of work per year; the other one hasn't gotten a raise in years.

I'm sorry this is happening to you - I can't believe by revising this that they will be saving all that much unless you teach hundreds each week.

What does it say in your contract? you agreed to a set of terms when you started & both parties should be held accountable to that. if they don't like what the contract says now, they would have to renegotiate- probably with all contract instructors/ independent contractors, so if you feel strongly enough about it you could pull together a group to protest it. My contract states 15% of all income- that includes both student enrollment, as well as any income should I choose to sell merch to my class out of that facility. I also set the rates for my classes & report accordingly, so it's a little different. I probably wouldn't get too uptight about them changing it, but I would check the contract and make sure they abide by what they agreed to. If they asked me (in your situation) to sign a new contract, I probably would because I'm guessing it's not enough of a difference to make me walk away from the job, but I don't know all the details!

edit: that should say I pay the parks dept. 15% of all income.

Originally Posted by Lara L

What does it say in your contract? you agreed to a set of terms when you started & both parties should be held accountable to that. if they don't like what the contract says now, they would have to renegotiate- probably with all contract instructors/ independent contractors, so if you feel strongly enough about it you could pull together a group to protest it. My contract states 15% of all income- that includes both student enrollment, as well as any income should I choose to sell merch to my class out of that facility. I also set the rates for my classes & report accordingly, so it's a little different. I probably wouldn't get too uptight about them changing it, but I would check the contract and make sure they abide by what they agreed to. If they asked me (in your situation) to sign a new contract, I probably would because I'm guessing it's not enough of a difference to make me walk away from the job, but I don't know all the details!

edit: that should say I pay the parks dept. 15% of all income.

My contract states that I get $x.xx per student for residents, and $x.xx per student for non-residents (each rate is 70% of the enrollment fee that the student pays). It's actually my own contract - the park and rec does not have one, and my understanding is that they negotiate with each instructor individually on terms. I don't think they pay all the contractors the same; the way it worked with me was I told them what I wanted and we took it from there.

How this came up is that I sent in the contract for my new fitness based class, which has the same terms as the other two classes I teach there. It didn't get sent back to me, so I followed up with my contact at the park & rec, and it looks like when she passed it by her boss he balked. I've been teaching regular belly dance there for over 3 years, and it's never come up before, even though I submit updated contracts every session.

If there's no choice, I will agree to the new terms because we're really only talking about a difference of $100 or so per session (I don't have that many non-residents). Still, since teaching is my full time job, every little bit counts. I'm actually thinking of asking for an 80% cut per student if I have to go to one rate for everyone, to possibly make some of the income up. If I have to agree to their terms, though, I'd like to at least understand why the former terms are unfair to the city.

Originally Posted by laura 2

If there's no choice, I will agree to the new terms because we're really only talking about a difference of $100 or so per session (I don't have that many non-residents). Still, since teaching is my full time job, every little bit counts. I'm actually thinking of asking for an 80% cut per student if I have to go to one rate for everyone, to possibly make some of the income up. If I have to agree to their terms, though, I'd like to at least understand why the former terms are unfair to the city.

That is a great idea to negotiate before signing. Good luck!

Originally Posted by laura 2

If there's no choice, I will agree to the new terms because we're really only talking about a difference of $100 or so per session (I don't have that many non-residents). Still, since teaching is my full time job, every little bit counts. I'm actually thinking of asking for an 80% cut per student if I have to go to one rate for everyone, to possibly make some of the income up. If I have to agree to their terms, though, I'd like to at least understand why the former terms are unfair to the city.

That sounds like an excellent negotiation strategy- and I would point out that this *has* been part of the standard contract they have reviewed and signed for the last 3 years. I hate negotiation 'cause I have no backbone, but if they are asking you to give up something, I'd definitely ask for something in return. Just know your limits & be able to outline why you charge what you do- I set my rates based on what it costs me to get there & what I could be making elsewhere so I know what my 'just walk away' rates are. knowing what others in town are charging for similar services would also help.

Originally Posted by laura 2

If I have to agree to their terms, though, I'd like to at least understand why the former terms are unfair to the city.

I think its because the city incurs a certainamount of overhead expense in running the programs - advertising expenses in publishing the printed catalogue, administrative expenses in providing the staff to hnadle registrations, physical expense in maintenance of the classrooms and all that. Part of these expenses are funded by class fees and part by the taxes that residents payto the city. NOnresidents dont pay those taxes. So I think the citys logic is that the residents help fund this overhead by paying taxes while nonresidents helpfund it by paying higher class fees.

I don't know for your region, but the municipality I was involved with, the municipality was covering most expenses for the building, inscriptions and promotion for all recreation classes, including these as community service expenses in their budget. That is the reason why they privilege resident vs/ non-resident, in other term, they give a rebate to residents besause the real price is what they charge to non-resident and residents pay municipal taxes to this community. What I don't understand is why are they paying you different rates per students because, you are giving the same service to all students and you don't receive municipal taxes from residents...
So if you think about it, in your incomes, were you giving a rebate to residents or got paid more for non-res? I think you should get 1 rate for any students because as I said, you don't receive a quote on mun. taxes and you don't give a better service to non-resident. And the real price is the non- resident rate!!!

Okay, I think I finally get it! Basically what the top guy is saying is that only getting 30% of what the non-residents pay is not making up for the overhead costs for including them in the program; that they need every penny of the extra fee to make up for unpaid taxes for non-residents.

Thanks for the explanations; it really helped! It looks like maybe I've just been lucky that they paid me the higher rate for non-residents the past three years.

Yeah.. what Malika said.

I teach and have taught for a few park districts and my income per student has always been the same regardless of residency. There was never a question about it. I'm even hourly at one of the park districts (but the hourly rate is way more generous than it would be at my other park district where I'm a contractor with a per-student rate).

Same thing happened to me Galatea. But I didn't fight it. It's one of my better paying classes. My other classes are hourly, no mater how many people I teach. But yes, the parks and recs told me the same thing about non residents on my split.

Nilaja

Seems to me the parks department is supposed to be subsidizing the resident discount using the tax dollars. That's kind of the point of their very existence.

You were very kind to agree to subsidize their discount to residents in the first place by teaching them at a lower rate. :wink:

If they've overdiscounted the resident rate, they need to correct that by adjusting their pricing, not your pay rate.

(I recognize this may not be possible, but it's worth a try in the negotiations?)

I wrote to my Park & Rec contact last night, and already got a response this morning. I think we've worked it out as best we can, with both of us getting something out of the negotiations.

They already signed a contract for my regular Belly Dance classes through May of 2010, paying me the two separate fees. They are abiding by it completely and nothing will change for those two classes until I send them the new contract for June 2010. I re-wrote the fitness class contract for 70% of the resident fee for all students.

For the classes beginning in June, the pay for all of my classes will be based on the resident rate only, but they have agreed to up me to an 80% cut. :Abiggrin:

I'm fine with the concessions; my classes there are always full or close to it, the staff is super helpful and the facility's pretty nice. I haven't minded walking away from a couple of other locations where some or all of the above wasn't the case, but things have gone so well with them for the past 3 years that I would hate to leave for anything but unbearable conditions.

Thanks so much to all of you for your help and advice; it was really instrumental in putting together my counter-offer email.

Happy solution!