Thread: Face-to-Face Negotiating

It has recently come to my attention that I am a total wuss when it comes to in-person negotiations. I'm awesome on the phone - I keep my prices firm and turn down clients who won't pay my full rates (except DJs and agencies, who get a discounted rate for repeat business). But what about people who try to book you as you're walking out of a show you've just done?

I usually try to hand them my card, explain that prices are up on my website, and that I have to run out but we should speak over the phone. But I find that the response is, "Well, just quickly let me know how much you charge for x amount of time." Then I tell them, add that I have other show lengths and prices listed on my website, and tell them to review the options and call me. When they persist in trying to nail me down then and there for a booking, though, I have such a hard time standing my ground! The fact that they can see my face just changes everything.

While I love to leave a gig with a private party booked for the next week, I would love to get my strategy working so that I don't end up cutting my rates.

Can anybody weigh in on this?

Well, look at it this way. At least they want to book you right on the spot! For me, the worst part of the booking process is waiting, knowing that they may be looking on every Suzy Nippletassels website in my area, and shopping around for the best deal. So the ball's already in your court!

Maybe you can start memorizing your own prices - i.e. what you charge for a birthday party, a bellygram, a party with two sets, etc. If they want to book you for something simple, then you can rattle off your price confidently - and then call them on a later date to talk costumes and small details. Seriously? Bring some contracts with you just in case

If they have something more complicated in mind, I think it should suffice to say, "My rates for parties start at $250, but I'll need to know a little bit more about what you have in mind so I can quote you a more accurate price and come up with a set that you'll be happy with. Let's chat sometime tomorrow."

Thanks, Satin! Yeah, I do have them memorized, and that's exactly what I *try* to do. But for example, the other night the DJ asked repeatedly for my card and then followed me into the kitchen to make sure I booked the party before I left! Sometimes people make it hard for me to skip out and then I end up going with, "Well, I'll see what I can do..." Which I NEVER do over the phone. Ugh.

I guess, when things happen at the blink of an eye, my only advice is to take a deep breath and get in your Zen Place? ..l;,

could you bring a postcard size rate sheet with you? easy to slip into a dance bag & with everything outlined like on your website- you might even want a sample contract with blanks to fill in, if you deal with contracts. pull out your calendar right there on the spot & let them know they need a deposit to reserve the date. Look on the bright side- what an awesome problem to have! I'd much rather have a booking nailed down right away than sit around hoping they call back & follow up- the more distance from the event, the more opportunities for something else to pop up!

After a show you are flustered, a little high from your performance, sweaty and tired. It's not the time to negotiate. Either get some rate cards printed or ask the client to give you a call.

There are too many variables when booking a party to do it on the spot, and ideally you leave the establishment after you're done performing, sticking around to haggle with customers ruins the mystique.

Rate cards are an awesome idea. Why didn't I think of that? ..l;,

Duplicate post, phone being weird as usual!

Rate cards! What an awesome idea! I'll be hitting Vista Print tonight.

This seems to be a "problem" (I know getting booked is a very good thing!) Only at my last show of the night, when I'm no longer fashing out to make it to the next gig. Think I need to work on keeping up the appearance of having to run...

Oh, and kind of a spinoff, but I notice I've been getting more work with DJs lately, and I'm wondering how much of a discount other dancers give? I've been doing about $50 less than my usual rate, which I feel okay about since they take care of everything, get me on and off stage quickly, and bring future business... I like it better than working with agencies for sure.

Thanks for the responses!

Originally Posted by bellyfina

Oh, and kind of a spinoff, but I notice I've been getting more work with DJs lately, and I'm wondering how much of a discount other dancers give? I've been doing about $50 less than my usual rate, which I feel okay about since they take care of everything, get me on and off stage quickly, and bring future business... I like it better than working with agencies for sure.
Thanks for the responses!

Even if the DJ is booking you I would keep my prices firm. We've had a rash of people in NY booking parties for way less then the going rate. I'm not sure if you're a member of the NYC pro bellydance board, but there have been lots of discussions on prices lately.
If you want to join here's the link
bellydancepro : THE STAR ALLIANCE: Pro Dancers' Forum
You need to fill out some basic information for approval to join but there is a discussion on rates booked through agents or other parties.
Once you've been approved please see this thread.
Yahoo! Groups

Thanks, Tanya! I am a member, but I rarely check the forum anymore since the e-mails go to my old address and the group wasn't very active for a while.

On the subject of DJ bookings, in my experience it's been like agency work: they expect a discount because they take care of all the logistics and bring in repeat business. Of course, I still give out my own cards at those shows, which means that if people see me there and book me directly, they pay the full price. I've only worked with a couple of DJs, but the ones I've spoken to have said the same thing... This means that for me, it isn't a "priority" booking, and I won't go crazy trying to do it, but I will book it if I have the time.

Of course I don't give discounts to regular party hosts who say their event will bring me future work, even if it turns out that it does. But it seems like DJs won't book at full price. If I'm wrong, though, I'm happy to change my ways!

Oh, forgot to add, I have been a member of BDPro for about five years. The Rates file on the forum really helped me to establish myself when I was beginning to go pro, and my rates are just about the same as yours (Tanya's). Except that I do Bellygrams and added a middle option, like a short version of the full show, when business was slow and I found out that most dancers in my area were charging a lot less than me on the regular. Just wanted to clarify, since it helps to know where I'm starting from when I give a discounted DJ rate.

There. I have just effectively hijacked my own thread. :)

Yes sadly there are a lot of dancers that charge less then us.

But, most of the parties looking to skimp on entertainment are not parties I want to work anyway.

If you do give a discount I would make sure you still get at least 200.00, you can lie to the DJ and tell him you charge 250 and are being VERY kind to them. They'll never know.

I think one of the best times to get hired is right after a show. (my opinion).
1. the client approached you - the ball is in your court
2. he/she just saw you perform and now is asking you for an event - the ball is even more in your court, no need to describe what you do at parties, or direct him to your website for pictures of videos
3. in my experience, when I just finished dancing, I am even less likely to consider a discount (maybe it's the adrenalin) or go into some explanations for my rate. (I don't really explain too much, but sometimes when someone says: oh, that's too much, how about ...? I do explain that this is the rate for a professional dancer, and maybe an inexperienced student would do it for that, etc.)
4. I'd rather book the deal right then and there instead of telling the customer to call me the next day. Of course you want to get his info, and tell him that you will confirm everything the next day, but I am in favor of closing the deal.

Tonight after my show I rushed outside to go to the other one. Customer was already waiting outside, asked for my car and rates. Told him, gave the card to him. he asked if I could go to his house for a party tomorrow night, we discussed it etc. I told him I can call him tomorrow to get his address. He said, "oh this is for sure, let me give you my phone + address."

He didn't even try to negotiate the rate down, if he did, I would have been like: uhm, sorry this is how much I charge, now I have to go to my next show", and wouldn't even go into it.

Of course we agreed that he will call me tomorrow to confirm, (I insisted) but it is for sure.
Not bad for under 5 minutes. If I didn't go into the conversation, saying that I'll call him tomorrow, who knows, everything could be different.
I say when opportunity knocks, welcome it in :) at least it works for me.

practice in the mirror. Be kind, be firm, and smile!

I agree with Marianna. Close the deal at the early possible moment. I'd even ask for a cash deposit on the spot. :)