Thread: Finding a way in....

As you can tell by my name, I am trying to go undetected by those that may be in the same dance community as I am. I am doing this, because I have no one to turn to in my community that can offer me solid advice on what to do.

A few years ago I moved to a new town. In my new town, there is a group of dancers that have had most of the gigs in town, with only a few exceptions, for quite some time. These dancers pretty much keep their gigs to themselves. They occasionally will have other dancers sub for them, when they can't cover their own gigs. Occasionally, I have subbed for them. That's all fine and not a problem.

What the problem is, is I'm a pretty good dancer too, even if I say so myself, and I've done my share of getting out there to get gigs, but it seems that everytime I get a place ready to hire a dancer, these other dancers always seem to beat me to the punch. When it gets down to it, places choose them over me. Sure they are gorgeous dancers, but I think I'm just as good, and offer some variety and artistry, over what they currently offer venues. Note: I don't think they are undercutting, because when I've subbed for them, the venues are paying the going rate.

Since, they have been in town so long and have, for the most part, been the only game in town for so long, I can understand why places hire them, they are established, have a slick marketing campaign, and have lots of contacts in the arab community that most of the venue owners are familiar with.

With that being said - my problem is that I don't know how to market myself against odds that are so stacked against me. Sure I'm a good dancer, but if I don't have the opportunity to get in front of people and I don't have a reputation as being a good dancer (cause I don't have venue gigs to be seen), it's harder to get private gigs and restaurant gigs. Many of the venue owners and bands run in the same circles, so they all know each other.

Having connections is important, but how do I get connections, when I'm never in a position, performing or otherwise, to make those connections?

I DON'T want to play dirty to break-in. So, I need some constructive advice on how to effectively address the "competition" with prospective venues without coming across the wrong way.

Got any marketing ideas or ways to help me break-in the gig scene?

The community I was in before had head dancers that scheduled the dancers for their restaurants, so it was easier to break in, you just had to audition.

Otherwise, I've been able to establish myself as one of the best dancers in the area - with the dance community - but now I need to establish myself outside of the dance community, with venues. How do I do that, without undercutting and without playing dirty?

..c::

My community's kinda similar. There's nothing shady going on in the main restaurant circuit. It's just difficult. I live in a small, small area with a LOT of dancers and enough BD-friendly Middle Eastern restaurants to count on one hand, with a few fingers left over .w.: If you want to dance in restaurants in my neck of the woods, you either sub for someone, try out the non-ME venues (which can be really spotty, unpredictable and annoying), or wait for a new ME restaurant to come to town and hope you're the first one to drop off your card ,r:; Nooooooo way.

It took me a LONG time to find my way, but this year, things finally clicked. My revelation? There's no $$$ in restaurant work around here. So I decided to avail myself for bigger, better, more lucrative things.

I think every dancer has to ask herself how she measures success. For many of us, this means having a weekly gig. News flash? That's not the be-all, end-all to a rewarding dance career. (In fact, I'll sub for a friend occasionally, but I don't actively seek out restaurant/club work - too much aggravation, too little pay!). Can you broaden the aperture a bit more, so to speak? What other types of events are out there? What do you love to do? Can you see a demand for something in your market that nobody's quite been successful at filling? Examine yourself. Examine the venues in your area. And, yes, examine your competition (or coopetition, if you prefer). Once you get the full picture and see where you fit in, narrow down your focus to a laser point and go for it. It may take a couple tries until you get it right, but once you find that specific niche, it is sooooooooo rewarding.

Sometimes, in order to stand out from a crowd, you've gotta avoid crowds altogether ..l;,. Do you really want to find a way "in"? Or do you simply want to find your way? Finding a way "in" implies that you're seeking permission/acceptance/whatever from some "higher authority," when in actuality, YOU are the only one who can manifest your own destiny. As for me, I am making a LOT more money and getting much more recognition doing my own thing than I ever did just passively hanging back and hoping somebody would let me sub for them, or spinning my wheels on Middle Eastern restaurants that didn't want to hire BDers, or wouldn't pay my rates.

I feel like I'm speaking very abstractly, but I don't want to spill all my candy in the candy shop, and I don't know a whole lot about your situation. Please feel free to e-mail me if you want any specific advice. Carrara Nour at Gmail dot com.

This happened to me too when I moved to a new town. When I first came to my area I danced at a few haflas that were open to anyone, I would put in my bio that I was new in town.After dancing at the hafla I would get a few people coming up to me and introduce themselves to me and even ask me to dance at there event. At the first hafla I did while new in town I met a dancer who really liked my dancing, she asked me to do her show she was putting on at a restaurant. I did the show and kept in touch with her. This dancer had me audition at the same restaurant to dance there. And I have sub for her a few times at other restaurants. She has even referred gigs to me that was closed to where I lived. Now this dancer is not so popular with the in crowed but she has always been nice to me so I could careless. Also I started taking classes here with a teacher that also puts on student shows, and workshops shows. After performing at these show, I have kinda gotten my name out there and allowed the community to see me dance. After dancing at one restaurant hafla I have had the owner come up to me to asks if I wanted to dance there. I have also danced at a hafla where the band members come up to me after the show and ask for my info for gigs.
My community has a message board also that I signed up for. Even though there is a in crowd where I live there is also others that are not in the crowd. I have been referred gigs by a few people in my community. So if you get out there and let people see you dance, the dancers that are not in the in crowd will know that you are a good person to referrer gigs to. Not everyone in the community has the same MO

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

My community's kinda similar. There's nothing shady going on in the main restaurant circuit. It's just difficult. I live in a small, small area with a LOT of dancers and enough BD-friendly Middle Eastern restaurants to count on one hand, with a few fingers left over .w.: If you want to dance in restaurants in my neck of the woods, you either sub for someone, try out the non-ME venues (which can be really spotty, unpredictable and annoying), or wait for a new ME restaurant to come to town and hope you're the first one to drop off your card ,r:; Nooooooo way.

It took me a LONG time to find my way, but this year, things finally clicked. My revelation? There's no $$$ in restaurant work around here. So I decided to avail myself for bigger, better, more lucrative things.

I think every dancer has to ask herself how she measures success. For many of us, this means having a weekly gig. News flash? That's not the be-all, end-all to a rewarding dance career. (In fact, I'll sub for a friend occasionally, but I don't actively seek out restaurant/club work - too much aggravation, too little pay!). Can you broaden the aperture a bit more, so to speak? What other types of events are out there? What do you love to do? Can you see a demand for something in your market that nobody's quite been successful at filling? Examine yourself. Examine the venues in your area. And, yes, examine your competition (or coopetition, if you prefer). Once you get the full picture and see where you fit in, narrow down your focus to a laser point and go for it. It may take a couple tries until you get it right, but once you find that specific niche, it is sooooooooo rewarding.

Sometimes, in order to stand out from a crowd, you've gotta avoid crowds altogether ..l;,. Do you really want to find a way "in"? Or do you simply want to find your way? Finding a way "in" implies that you're seeking permission/acceptance/whatever from some "higher authority," when in actuality, YOU are the only one who can manifest your own destiny. As for me, I am making a LOT more money and getting much more recognition doing my own thing than I ever did just passively hanging back and hoping somebody would let me sub for them, or spinning my wheels on Middle Eastern restaurants that didn't want to hire BDers, or wouldn't pay my rates.

I feel like I'm speaking very abstractly, but I don't want to spill all my candy in the candy shop, and I don't know a whole lot about your situation. Please feel free to e-mail me if you want any specific advice. Carrara Nour at Gmail dot com.

Girl...we need to get together sometime for that coffee you know...we have lots to talk about

Toria: thanks for your input. Like I said, I'm very well established in the dance community. Most shows and haflas here are not in "public" places, usually at studios, and the general public does not usually attend, in fact few in the dance community even attend.

Also, the arabic community, including local arabic band members, don't go to these shows...so even with the dance shows I do do, I'm still not getting in front of them.

When I've subbed for other dancers I'm always talked to after the performance, but I have to be careful here, because I don't wish to steal established gigs.

Satin: Always appreciate your comments. Sure, restaurants gigs are not the end-all-be-all, but I do enjoy dancing at restaurants a couple times a month, to maintain the types of performance skills most used in these venues. That's why I want a regular gig, so I can keep my skills up.

I like the aspect of steadiness that regular restaurant gigs provide. Private shows are fine, but again my marketing isn't compelling enough to make me a clear choice from the competition for private parties either. Even those are few and far between.

Restaurants here don't pay too bad either, but they do provide a chance to advertise.

We don't have too many shows/haflas here anyway, other than students shows, and I'm considered a pro here, so I can't keep crashing these student-focused events, just to keep my performing chops up.

But the other reason I wanted a gig of my own, was so I can dance when I want to by being the scheduler AND to provide opportunities for other dancers. I'm not the only pro in town without a steady gig.

Here's the thing, dancers who have been around longer have been able to establish reputations, connections and business relationships. They will be at an advantage. You can't come into a new scene and expect to shoot to the "head of the class" so to speak. There are some exceptions to the rule but these dancers come into scenes with glowing reputations and often times a following of their own.

Keep plugging away, keep doing what you're doing, keep subbing and working and not stealing gigs. But also humble yourself. I understand that you have something different to offer, but running around telling people this is going to put off your fellow dancers (who may think you are slighting them.)

We've all had situations in our communities, but those who rise to the top do so in two ways;
Underhanded, undercutting, ruthless and nasty isolating behavior.
OR
Working with the group until you come into your own.

Those successful and at the top will continue to rise (ideally) and leave a top position vacant for someone who is groomed for it.

You can't expect to start a gig (where there are already established dancers) and become the house dancer right away, and you really can't be expecting to be the scheduler right away.

If you were established in your old local perhaps you want to organize some events and invite your old crowd to hang with the new crowd. Having people who admire you in front of new "friends" is never a bad thing.

Your intentions are noble and your statements in fact seem honest and looking for real answers. This is why I'm answering so bluntly.

Originally Posted by Sahari

Girl...we need to get together sometime for that coffee you know...we have lots to talk about

Yeah, I'm sure you and I can share some valuable pointers

We still have to write those informational pamphlets, too .w.: Shoot me an e-mail one of these days and let's pick a day!

Tanya: I'm not going to established places looking for gigs. I've been focusing on finding new places that don't have dancers at all. I'll groom these new venues, they will call me and talk prices, but in the end they get the deal, not me.

That's the thing too. I haven't been running around telling anyone anything. I'm a firm believer in letting my skills speak for themselves, but since I'm not in front of an audience too often, only my poorly shot youtube videos can do that.

I don't know how I can talk to new venues about the competition in a nice way, to set myself a part as a viable option. I know I need to talk up my own skills, but it still feels like I'm overtly saying something negative even though I'm not mentioning names or directly criticizing the competition.

My old community is well over 12 hours away, not an option.

Go social dancing, (leave your props at home.) Let yourself be seen without being 'seen.' Go support other dancers at their gigs, you would be surprised what a little social dancing can do. Are there live bands?

I applaud you for scoping out venues of your own instead of waiting for somebody to "knight" you into the house dancer position. You already have the one-up in this situation because you get to set the precedent and the payscale. How cool is that?

It's so hard to give you any specific advice, not knowing who you are. But remember that branding eliminates the need for "selling." That's where all that stuff I said earlier about differentiating yourself comes in. Develop your own trademark look, style and business approach - and offer stellar customer service - and you'll find you'll have to do less of the hard sell. Your "product" will sell itself with minimal effort on your part. Best of all, you won't have to feel like you're constantly tooting your own horn when you talk to restaurant and club owners.

Once again, I hate not being able to give specifics, but now is a great time for you to do some soul searching about what makes you unique. I've said it once and I'll say it a million times: if you build it, they will come...

That's a good idea, there are a couple of bands in the area.

Do you think advertising in local arabic newspapers or websites would be worth it?

I think better then advertizing is actually meeting the people who would hire you. Many times bands book dancers for parties and private functions. In my area there are several bands who book rotating dancers in theri venues. It's a way to see and be seen.

Just make sure you are on your best behavior when out at a place that may eventually hire you. You don't want to get the job for the 'wrong' reasons.

Satin: I get what you are saying about branding. I've used that with much more success in advertising my classes.

How much does understanding the desires of your market compare to branding? I don't understand that relationship very well.

Originally Posted by AnaniMous

Satin: I get what you are saying about branding. I've used that with much more success in advertising my classes.

How much does understanding the desires of your market compare to branding? I don't understand that relationship very well.

Well, why does a cattle rancher brand a steer? To set it apart from "the herd." For the same reason, we should brand ourselves

I think it's safe to say that each dancer has an ideal target market in her head. The better you understand your target's desires and lifestyle, the more adeptly you can shape your product to fit their needs. If you can show empathy toward your clients' goals/challenges/needs and offer a "total package" that they find compelling, odds are pretty good that they'll hire you over somebody who's just offering something generic.

I hope I'm making sense!

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Yeah, I'm sure you and I can share some valuable pointers

We still have to write those informational pamphlets, too .w.: Shoot me an e-mail one of these days and let's pick a day!

Yes!! You got mail ..g.:

Originally Posted by Sahari

Yes!! You got mail ..g.:

I got it! And I'm just running out the door ....but I promise, we'll chat VERY soon!!!

Satin: Do you have any resources, online or books, that can help me gather the market information I need to determine what my target audience is looking for?

Originally Posted by AnaniMous

Satin: Do you have any resources, online or books, that can help me gather the market information I need to determine what my target audience is looking for?

This answer will vary from dancer to dancer. For instance, what the high-end American market thinks is important in hiring a BDer is not always the same as what Arab restaurant owners go for - in fact, I find that those groups tend to have very different expectations . What works for my ideal customer might not work for yours!

So as far as knowing what your ideal audiences want, this is where observation is key. Personally, I make a log of ALL client feedback (good, bad or indifferent) and start looking for trends in what my core consumers say about me. Even if they say something like "Wow, it's nice to finally get a human being on the phone," I log that. It's standard procedure, when booking a gig, to ask how the client found me, and (if they ultimately hire me), why they picked me. If you phrase this as market research, it doesn't feel or come across as weird - lots of companies do this, whether you're seeing a new doctor, getting a website designed, or getting new floors installed. Long story short, I think dancers tend to devote too much energy toward what they *think* their audiences like, when the reality is that our clients and audiences are constantly giving us subtle pieces of feedback ALL THE TIME. You just have to keep your eyes and ears open.

Some good books to get you started are Al Ries' 22 Immutable Laws of Branding, and believe it or not, Branding for Dummies breaks it down really nicely! The Dummies guide is filled with worksheets and exercises, so you might find this helpful...

Anaimous, research of all types is good. Did you ask the venues what was important to them while negotiating? Did you go back and ask what influenced their decision? Occasionally you'll get a helpful remark like 'so and so has 17 costumes' or 'her & her already have a following, we hope they follow her to our restaurant' or even 'we wanted a hot dancer' (ie, one who will dance on the bar :))

It's helpful to divide customers by motivations, and this can often be done from observation and brief conversations. Some few restaurant owners are patrons of the arts and want you in because it makes them feel happy. Others want you to add to a successful ambiance (they provide the audience). But many others are hoping that you, specifically, will draw customers to their venue. A large subset of this last category expect YOU to do the advertising to draw the desired customers (I call this BYOA - Bring Your Own Audience).

I believe the "draw more customers" and "BYOA" categories require enhanced situational awareness. Since even popular dancers may not be able to entice any given fan into a venue more than once a month, performing in this venue twice a month can put stress on you unless you have a LARGE fan base (including students and friends), the venue is serving the food the fans want, AND the fans are willing to spend money, not just 'support' you by showing up and ordering a coffee. Therefore, being successful at these venues might mean dancing in the restaurant once every one or two months -or- being able to provide a rotation of dancers with their own fan base (in other words, creating an alliance with other pro dancers in the area and rotating yourselves and promoting the event to your several mailing lists). It sounds like the existing collective of dancers provides the rotation and fan base. Maybe you can too.

Also be aware that customers can change motivations, and be prepared to respond calmly and professionally. For instance, a restaurant who hires you for ambience may decide that hiring you is not creating the draw they hoped for, and they start leaning on YOU to come up with a way to draw customers in, usually by getting the word out to your mailing list. Big change. What they are now doing is asking you to convert some of your customers into their customers, whereas before you were probably converting some of their customers into your customers (students, private parties). Decide ahead if you want to do it, how you are going to do it, and what you expect in return. If you 'just' want to perform, don't get involved in BYOA scenerios.

If this is all known to you, my apologies. I decided to assume that you might not know this in case you might find it of assistance.

Oops, forgot the Fifth category. The venue is doing poorly and is hoping that you will save them. You won't be able to. Abort, abort! Sure sign of this category: customer asks you to dance on the sidewalk to attract customers ;)

Maura, I think we were typing the same thing at the same time

Going along with Maura's classification scheme, this reminds me of a favorite exercise that a business coach taught me. This will help you zero in on your ideal clientele, if you don't already have a strong grasp on who you want to dance for:

Make a list of every client you can remember, going back at least a year. Try to remember as many as you can. Now, go through and "grade" them on a scale of A through D, A's being "Awesome, would dance there in a heartbeat!" and D's being "NEVER again, you couldn't pay me enough hummus to dance in that dive."

Now for the best part - go ahead and "fire" the C's and D's. (That felt good, didn't it?) And start thinking about what all the A's and B's had in common. What did the C's and D's have in common? How can you attract more of your A's and B's?

It's a silly exercise, but don't knock it 'til you tried it. This one really got my juices flowing when I was first coming up with my marketing plan!

I don't believe I saw this suggestion so I'll go ahead and throw it out here for you. If you have enough connections through haflas and student recitals, could YOU organize a cozy dance event where you could invite some of these musicians? There's very much a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" feel to a lot of the dance world. Even inviting some of the dancers you're in competition with might help build more connections. At the very least you'll build the community a little more and hopefully, you'll dance in front of some of the people you're seeking exposure with.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Some good books to get you started are Al Ries' 22 Immutable Laws of Branding, and believe it or not, Branding for Dummies breaks it down really nicely!

I ordered these from Amazon.com. I don't know enough to know if these are the best, but I am enjoying them very much. Thanks, Satin!

That's my suggestion too. Newcomers are always under the microscope for a while probably because it's so easy to get burned in this field. The established dancers are wondering how you're gonna do business - cutthroat, or warm & fuzzy. I think the latter's better karmically.

If the current venues are locked up you just have to make your own, re above. Plus, being sociable helps dispel any mistrust in the local dancer's minds.
Venues come & go, but dancers have looooooong memories, am I right?

Originally Posted by RioDancerCO

I don't believe I saw this suggestion so I'll go ahead and throw it out here for you. If you have enough connections through haflas and student recitals, could YOU organize a cozy dance event where you could invite some of these musicians? There's very much a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" feel to a lot of the dance world. Even inviting some of the dancers you're in competition with might help build more connections. At the very least you'll build the community a little more and hopefully, you'll dance in front of some of the people you're seeking exposure with.

Originally Posted by maurazebra

I ordered these from Amazon.com. I don't know enough to know if these are the best, but I am enjoying them very much. Thanks, Satin!

You're welcome. They're both great reads! If anything, they're both a good starting point to get you thinking about what makes you different and how you can work your own uniqueness into your existing marketing strategy.