Thread: A New Perspective on Undercutting?

The last thing on earth I'd like to see is for a bunch of general public customers to leave a party saying, "Wow, that belly dancer's routine looked so easy even Grandma could do it!"

I kind of disagree on that score. Great dancing should never look hard. And great belly dancing often *does* look really accessible. Moreover, many oriental dancers doing GP parties etc are aware that they are also potentially selling classes. If people see a BDer and like her performance, but don't feel utterly intimidated by her, some of them are likely to make enquiries about classes. There's a lot of "I'd like to learn to do that!". It's possible I get more of it because I am older and not thin, so I don't look like something out of reach. Most BDers that I know who perform also teach, and teaching is what pays the bills.

In my experience people who know nothing about BD are more impressed by a bunch of hip drops than they are by, say, well-executed jewels - they only know the jewel looks nice and relaxed and have no idea that it's not. OTOH they do tend to be impressed by any hip movement whatsoever.

I must say that for me personally, a really awesome belly dance performance is like a nice drink of cool water when you really need it - it should leave you feeling refreshed, invigorated and satisfied, not overwhelmed or overstimulated or like an inferior person. My favourite dancers are always like that.

Originally Posted by Bellissima

I do think that as it becomes more common to post a youtube ish video on the website, the worst dancers will be weeded out.

Judging from the comments on YouTube, this hasn't happened yet. There are a lot of horrible dancers getting comments that would be more suited to far better performers. Of course, these lavish tributes could be coming from personal friends or they could even be sarcasm. So far (IMHO), the Internet has provided a forum for squeaky wheels to draw attention to themselves more than to raise the quality in the minds of the GP.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Now, I'm thinking about conversion. I wonder if it's within in our power to help shape the consumer landscape. For those who take a proactive approach, how do you educate the customer?

Perhaps those dancers who want to establish a big web presence could spend more time talking up the positive aspects of the dance in addition to promoting themselves? It seems like it is not unusual to find sites where the dancer rattles off names of famous dancers she's studied with (as if the GP would recognize any of them--that's aimed at other dancers...), and pages of galleries showing off her costume collection, but not many make an attempt to say much about the dance itself. I'm thinking this could be worked into the bio and other text in bits and pieces, not posted as a mini dissertation on dance ethnography, because I suspect the GP doesn't bother to read those attempts.

Originally Posted by anthea

First lets' set aside the possibility that we're doing drunken frat party gigs - So, "stupid audiences"? This is sloppy & disrespectful.

I understand your point, but then what would you like to call audiences that are sloppy and disrespectful toward us? Sometimes this is not about the dancer being too big for her bedlah and thinking the audience is beneath her. Some crowds really are willfully ignorant and insulting. It's the performer's responsibility not to sink to their level, but still...

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

The last thing on earth I'd like to see is for a bunch of general public customers to leave a party saying, "Wow, that belly dancer's routine looked so easy even Grandma could do it!"

I kind of disagree on that score. Great dancing should never look hard. And great belly dancing often *does* look really accessible.

There is an art to the middle ground. I don't want to be doing something so easy and pedestrian than anybody can do it, but I also don't see the point to performances that are full of elaborate tricks merely for the sake of being complicated. I think a better analogy is that anybody can write, and anybody can make pairs of rhyming words, but not everyone can create beautiful poetry. You may be taking something that is simple, common, and accessible, but it is how you combine it that takes it from the mundane to the sublime.

Originally Posted by anthea

First lets' set aside the possibility that we're doing drunken frat party gigs - So, "stupid audiences"? This is sloppy & disrespectful.

Hey, I hate to be so blunt, but I'm just calling spades spades. I can count the number of exceptionally ignorant audiences I've danced for on one hand. But we've all had the experience of dealing with extremely micromanaging clients ("I want you to teach my daughter a complete choreography for her Sweet 16 in less than 2 private lessons!"), or audiences where hecklers and drunk, rowdy and rude guests are present.

While these clients still deserve respect on the day of our show, I don't exactly think it's unreasonable to be frustrated and do everything in our power to minimize these encounters. I like to focus my efforts on clients who are hiring a BDer for positive reasons, not clients who are just kinda looking for some catch-all entertainer that's somewhere in between a stripper and moving wallpaper. I'm very lucky that I don't really experience a whole lot of the latter.

Anytime you step in front of an audience (& I've seen all kinds believe me) you should appreciate being there.

In the vast majority of cases, this is true. Nothing is better than dancing for an audience that appreciates you and makes you feel safe, happy and welcome. However, I really don't appreciate being in front of an audience if they want to stick dollar bills in my bra or tell me to go give Uncle Joe a lap dance.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I kind of disagree on that score. Great dancing should never look hard. And great belly dancing often *does* look really accessible. Moreover, many oriental dancers doing GP parties etc are aware that they are also potentially selling classes. If people see a BDer and like her performance, but don't feel utterly intimidated by her, some of them are likely to make enquiries about classes. There's a lot of "I'd like to learn to do that!".

This is very true, and possibly my comment came out wrong. Great belly dance performances are kind of a gorgeous contradiction to me: on the one hand, a good dancer will move like she has an extra vertibra. That being said, her demeanor and stage presence make it all look easy-peasy, in an effortless kind of way.

Now, if a beginning student performed at an event instead of somebody with a bit more experience, then her dance would definitely look easy....but in a bad way. I'm in a lasagna coma as I type this....but hopefully I still make some sense ..g.:

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Perhaps those dancers who want to establish a big web presence could spend more time talking up the positive aspects of the dance in addition to promoting themselves? It seems like it is not unusual to find sites where the dancer rattles off names of famous dancers she's studied with (as if the GP would recognize any of them--that's aimed at other dancers...), and pages of galleries showing off her costume collection, but not many make an attempt to say much about the dance itself. I'm thinking this could be worked into the bio and other text in bits and pieces, not posted as a mini dissertation on dance ethnography, because I suspect the GP doesn't bother to read those attempts.

I think this is also where PR comes in. I'm kind of a broken record here, but when the media comes a-callin', that's our time to shine. Yet you see so many TV interviews and newspaper articles that highlight too much of the novelty and too little of the art. I think it's up to the individual dancer to choose her media appearances wisely and confidently leverage the discussion.

Blogging can also be extremely helpful. A dancer who frequently writes about her recent learning experiences, historical perspectives, and even the daily life of a dance artist, can bolster her reputation as a diligent, passionate, hard-working pro.

There really doesn't seem to be a silver bullet for any of the questions posed on this thread....but if anything, I guess it's about reaching the right people, with the right message.

The reason you see news stories about BD that emphasise the novelty rather than the art,history, yadda yadda, is because the latter is not a story. Also, news is *new*.

This extends to all news. Do you think up-front news space would be given to a Senate meeting if it wasn't voting on healthcare and if said healthcare wasn't a) a massive social bone of contention b) pretty much a first c) going to affect millions of readers' lives? Do you think international media would report on Silvio Berlusconi giving a speech in Milan if someone hadn't smashed him in the face with a model cathedral at the event? Senate had a meeting. So what? They debated and passed the contentious health care bill! *That* is a story.

The big question is "so what?" If the only answer you can give to "so what" is "because I think it's cool" that's not enough of an answer.

*WE* think BD is super important, but most people don't. If we want to be an art form we need to be competing in the wider art world, and that changes us. We don't really *fit*, but if as performers, we want to pitch to anything in local newspapers that isn't the novelty angle it's arts pages. And we're competing with a LOT of other people for column inches that don't generate all that much advertising money.

The other option is education, which means you are teaching, not performing.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

*WE* think BD is super important, but most people don't. If we want to be an art form we need to be competing in the wider art world, and that changes us. We don't really *fit*, but if as performers, we want to pitch to anything in local newspapers that isn't the novelty angle it's arts pages. And we're competing with a LOT of other people for column inches that don't generate all that much advertising money.

Yeah, I guess that's a fair assessment. Since belly dance indexes somewhere between high art and entertainment for entertainment's sake, we're kind of on our own Island of Misfit Toys. And I say this in a profoundly affectionate way. As somebody whose passion is parties, I wouldn't change the lighthearted, sociable, pleasantly quirky aspect of our dance form for anything in this world. But I also think that these beloved characteristics might keep our dance from joining the ranks of the "classical" dance world.

Of course, this is not to say that entertainment and art are mutually exclusive. In fact, it would be nice to show the general public just how much artistry goes into being a great entertainer.

To this end, accessible classes help. So do feature stories in local arts publications, if we're lucky enough to get these opportunities. So does being your personal best at all of your shows, whether you're doing Egyptian, cabaret, tribal or whatever.

I guess at the end of the day, this is all navel gazing, and we all would be just as well asking ourselves the meaning of life. But still, it never hurts to ask all these questions...

Here's the crux of the matter and why the photography model isn't entirely applicable to our situation. When you hire a photographer, you don't always see the results of his/her art during the event. Unless you've hired someone who is grossly unprofessional, all you see at the wedding is some guy posing people and snapping away with a camera. If the results of his work look like pictures taken by a six-year-old girl with a Barbie camera, the guests at the reception aren't going to see that, and the wedding couple won't get their photo album of nightmares until perhaps months later.

When we get up to give a performance at a party, the results are right there in front of everybody. We can't hide our incompetence behind a time delay. Furthermore, we're often in front of an audience who has no measure of what a good performance is. Any yutz off the street has seen an Ansel Adams calendar, and most have tried to photograph something themselves in the past. They have (at least) a rudimentary understanding of what a good photograph is and how hard it can be to take one that doesn't look like the work of your aunt's Instamatic circa 1973. We, OTOH, need to go into every gig with the assumption that there will likely be someone in the audience who has never seen a real belly dancer before, and may be forming a permanent opinion from that first impression. In that sense, every performance we do is a teaching moment, whether we want it to be that way or not. It's easy to think of "teaching" as being what happens in the classroom and the process of transferring the information of our "trade secrets" to the novitiate, but there is also a level of "macro learning" where we are in the role of enlightening a public who has never experienced the depth of artistry that this dance can have. Even if you want the dance to be entertainment with its own self justification, you can never completely eliminate this element, because continued success depends on being taken seriously enough to maintain a regular stream of opportunities to perform.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It's easy to think of "teaching" as being what happens in the classroom and the process of transferring the information of our "trade secrets" to the novitiate, but there is also a level of "macro learning" where we are in the role of enlightening a public who has never experienced the depth of artistry that this dance can have. Even if you want the dance to be entertainment with its own self justification, you can never completely eliminate this element, because continued success depends on being taken seriously enough to maintain a regular stream of opportunities to perform.

Beautifully stated.

Oh, when I said education and teaching up there, I was referring to where in the newspaper you target your promotional info. If it's education it's essentially going to be about classes people can take.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

It is true that a dancer who books more gigs at a lower cost may initially earn more than those of us who gig less frequently and command a higher rate. But if the quality is lacking, it's doubtful that many of those gigs will pan out as referrals or repeat business.

<bolded emphasis mine>

What really gets me is when qualified dancers charge less than the going rate; they are worth more but believe that gigging more frequently (for $50-$100 less than the usual rate) is more important.

In other words, although they charge less per gig, their quality of product is good, and they sustain repeat business. So by pricing themselves noticeably lower than other qualified pros in the area, they're more likely to get the initial gig, put on a good show, and increase their likelihood of referrals or repeat gigs over those that charge more.

I don't know that there's much to be done about that. I know the minimum that I'll accept to get my costume on, but that might be a different amount (either more or less) than someone else. And if someone is willing to do the same gig for $50 less, well, I just can't compete with that bottom line.

Deborah

It's a conflict of two different business models that both boil down to "What is this product really worth, and how much above that price are people willing to pay?" Say a factory makes knee socks for $1 a pair. Wal-Mart buys a million pairs, and after they figure in their store overhead, they decide to charge $2 a pair to customers. They make $0.25 off each transaction. Macy's buys half as many pairs of the same socks, but after they figure in their overhead, they'll charge $4 a pair. Macy's customers are paying for the luxury of knowing they didn't buy their socks at a tacky discount store, and Macy's makes $1 off each sale, which they need because it's more expensive to operate a nice department store that trades in smaller quantities than a bargain-oriented behemoth like Wal-Mart. Who's right? Wal-Mart making a smaller profit more often or Macy's making a bigger profit from fewer sales? Both stores know there is a point where if they charge too much, they won't sell enough to make it worth carrying those socks, and if they charge below cost, they'll lose money. Neither of those stores sell only socks, though. There is a whole extra dimension to the economics of knowing that you can afford to lose a little money on socks if you'll make it back up on sweaters, or that you can overcharge a little on socks, if you trim your margin on an item with a higher profit, and make customers think they're getting a deal on a more expensive item to make up for the difference.

Unlike the sock example, dancers often don't have a good idea of what their "factory" and "overhead" costs are for a performance, much less what a reasonable profit margin should be. Most newbies hanging out their shingle to do bellygrams aren't sitting there with a spreadsheet, figuring the cost of their dance education and their costumes, music, and props, and if they do X performances a year, they'll need to charge Y to break even. Dancers don't tend to think in terms of an economic business model, and their numbers are soft and hazy. It's more like, "Uh, she charges $150. Are you willing to pay that much?"

There's also the problem that it's difficult to attach a cost to art. If I glob paint on a canvas, is it worth $10 or $10,000? I think we've all been to art museums and thought, "Seriously? That's a priceless work of art? It looks like it was painted by a dog." Sometimes the value of art is what someone is willing pay above what someone else has bid--with nothing to do with any formulas for raw costs and profits.

Where do our going rates actually come from? What are we sincerely worth? I've gotten the impression that we set our prices based on the average of what customers have historically paid, which isn't entirely related to the expenses on our end, or what comparable entertainers charge--and as times get lean, the market is less willing to indulge in what looks like a game of arbitrarily high soft numbers, even when they're actually low.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Where do our going rates actually come from? What are we sincerely worth? I've gotten the impression that we set our prices based on the average of what customers have historically paid, which isn't entirely related to the expenses on our end, or what comparable entertainers charge--and as times get lean, the market is less willing to indulge in what looks like a game of arbitrarily high soft numbers, even when they're actually low.

I've often wondered where our rates come from, too. The cost of living keeps going up in my region, yet I've noticed a trend of established pro dancers charging at the absolute lowest end of the sliding scale. Costumes and education aren't exactly cheap. It's hard to turn over a profit and recoup these expenses when you're only making $200 per gig - unless you're booking 4 shows a night. It is a mystery.

I also know that pricing is one important factor that determines your overall brand equity (how the marketplace perceives your brand). This is why we probably won't see Tiffany & Co. launch a Wal-Mart exclusive line any time between now and when Hell freezes over. I hate to say it, but it appears that BDers charge significantly less than other variety entertainers and event-related vendors. Could it be that our comparatively "cheap" rates only feed existing misconceptions? What would happen if we all raised our rates and priced ourselves exclusively? Would this help weed out some of the riffraff and pave the way for more respectable venues?

I've read a couple of interesting articles recently about pricing strategy for the high-end market, and experts consistently warn against lowering prices. Hopefully I can dig up a few to post here...

Originally Posted by casbahdance

What really gets me is when qualified dancers charge less than the going rate; they are worth more but believe that gigging more frequently (for $50-$100 less than the usual rate) is more important.

Oh, this is the worst. I have a good friend who tells me that she has been consistently undercutting herself to get more work, and I'm tempted to have an "intervention" of sorts. It's just not right, and she deserves so much better, IMNSHO. But I'm not quire sure how to approach this delicately and without offending her ,f::

Understandably, times are tough. But when you lower your own standard, you drag everybody else down, whether or not that's your true intention. Is being "in-demand" really worth it?

Really great points Tourbeau, I'd add though:

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Who's right? Wal-Mart making a smaller profit more often or Macy's making a bigger profit from fewer sales? Both stores know there is a point where if they charge too much, they won't sell enough to make it worth carrying those socks, and if they charge below cost, they'll lose money.

I don't see hiring live entertainment as a WalMart type product. It is a luxury item- especially when one knows how much goes into it.
In addition- while the stores know if they charge below cost they'll lose money. Unfortunately there are dancers who don't understand this concept of a self sustaining business.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Dancers don't tend to think in terms of an economic business model, and their numbers are soft and hazy.

Yes, an unfortunate reality for too many

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Where do our going rates actually come from? What are we sincerely worth? I've gotten the impression that we set our prices based on the average of what customers have historically paid, which isn't entirely related to the expenses on our end, or what comparable entertainers charge....

About 5 years ago on the DCPro list we looked at numbers historically in the area- (which had remained the same for 15 years!)- and we looked at cost of living increases in government pay, we looked at inflation, we looked at changes in the business (used to be house dancer might dance at one place 5 nights a week, now dancers work at multiple places), changes in our expenses and more. Based on those numbers we came up what rates SHOULD be now in order to sustain a business and we started working together to bring about those changes.
Of course we're STILL dealing with undercutters who just don't understand. At least we know the rates our professionals are charging are justifiable in terms of running an actual sustainable business. People in this area pay these rates and are choose to be repeat clients, so they see it as a fair amount for what they are getting.

When you sell an item, you have less of a limit in the quantity than when you sell a service. If I have 100 shirts to sell, selling 5 at once is hardly more effort than selling one. If I can sell 5 for 10$ each or one for 20$ each, after buying them for 5$, having 25$ in my pocket rather than 15 is worth the wee bit of extra trouble. But if instead I have to sew for an hour to make that shirt, selling cheap would mean having no free time and becoming frazzled.

Originally Posted by Bellissima

But if instead I have to sew for an hour to make that shirt, selling cheap would mean having no free time and becoming frazzled.

Bingo.

It's just like that old saying, "Time is money."

Originally Posted by Bellissima

When you sell an item, you have less of a limit in the quantity than when you sell a service. If I have 100 shirts to sell, selling 5 at once is hardly more effort than selling one. If I can sell 5 for 10$ each or one for 20$ each, after buying them for 5$, having 25$ in my pocket rather than 15 is worth the wee bit of extra trouble. But if instead I have to sew for an hour to make that shirt, selling cheap would mean having no free time and becoming frazzled.

YES! ... and we have generally speaking "limited business hours". Most parties/events happen in the evening on weekends. We can't clone ourselves to "sell" more than one show at a time. We can't tell the bride to just re-schedule to a Wednesday so we can fit it in. When there's a snow storm we can't rely on "internet sales" for income, we simply have canceled shows. We also have to allow for travel time between gigs when we do multiples in one day.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

I also know that pricing is one important factor that determines your overall brand equity (how the marketplace perceives your brand). This is why we probably won't see Tiffany & Co. launch a Wal-Mart exclusive line any time between now and when Hell freezes over. I hate to say it, but it appears that BDers charge significantly less than other variety entertainers and event-related vendors. Could it be that our comparatively "cheap" rates only feed existing misconceptions? What would happen if we all raised our rates and priced ourselves exclusively? Would this help weed out some of the riffraff and pave the way for more respectable venues?

Realistically, I'm afraid what would happen is that fewer and fewer gigs would go to the more expensive dancers, the low-end dancers would continue to charge their undercutting rates, and the bottom feeders would dominate the market until it collapsed. When an inferior product is the biggest share of the market, consumers either lower their standards or learn to do without. Good dancers can hardly compete with the undercutters as it is. If you don't get everyone on board with the higher rates, it will only widen the gulf.

Originally Posted by samira shuruk

I don't see hiring live entertainment as a WalMart type product. It is a luxury item- especially when one knows how much goes into it.

WE see it that way, but do our customers? The Wal-Mart mentality has become insidiously pervasive, which is why department stores have had to revise their own business models. The day of the downtown department store that occupied an elegant, multi-story building and sold clothes, furniture, record albums, yard goods, greeting cards, draperies, televisions, and everything else you could want to buy is long gone. Customers don't want to pay the overhead to support that kind of store anymore. They know that other stores sell for less--if you don't mind self serve and a little warehouse-y decor. Now that there's an alternative, most folks can't afford the luxury of paying more than they have to just so they can walk on carpet with elegantly dressed workers to ring up your purchases.

Yes, we are a luxury item, but we lack the recognition and respect of things like Louboutin shoes and Porsche autos. We're brandless and interchangeable. I think things are different within Middle Eastern cultures, but the GP audiences in the West don't see us as the sort of extravagant indulgence that you associate with luxury goods--that is, something for which a cheaper, common substitute simply can't suffice. We're an overpriced novelty item to the GP. They don't understand the difference between a well-trained performer and the GWC, and that's why they don't understand why both shouldn't charge the same rate.

Somewhat OT, but an interesting piece on the dynamics of another art form that is struggling to convince people that they are worth the expense...Literary Review - Tim Blanning on The Gilded Stage by Daniel Snowman

"Financial pressure has also been a constant, for opera is unusual if not unique among the arts in that its production costs invariably outrun income."

Yeah, I know the thread is mostly dead, but anyone who's ever complained about disrespectful, ignorant audiences and unqualified performers may be interested in this interview with the comedian Gallagher. Gallagher | DVD | Interview | The A.V. Club The content can get somewhat offensive in parts, and much of it isn't relevant to our discussion, but then he turns around and says something like, "And so we don’t really have a high level of performance in America, or even a demand that people onstage have studied, or pay attention to the performing arts," and it makes one realize that these problems are not unique to dance.

but you would almost have to choose...marketing self to high end parties or beer parties. how do you later explain you gave the budget price to the beer crowd? unless you just wore a simple costume and didnt do much

Originally Posted by jesennia

but you would almost have to choose...marketing self to high end parties or beer parties. how do you later explain you gave the budget price to the beer crowd? unless you just wore a simple costume and didnt do much

Hmmmm . . . I'll dance for anybody who'll pay my fee, all-male parties excepted. My fee doesn't change for the high-end vs beer parties, unless there is a material difference between the gigs themselves, such as distance, type of show, length of show, multiple shows, etc.

My marketing materials can depict me as good-looking, well-costumed and professional and yet accessible to various types of audiences.

As to pricing differently for the same type of gig: I haven't figured that one out, either, Jes. If my 'grams start at $XXX and everything else is equal between two gigs, how would I justify doubling that amount just because a gig is a corporate retirement party rather than Uncle Joe's birthday bash? Maybe that's one argument for not putting gig fees on one's website???

Deborah

Originally Posted by jesennia

but you would almost have to choose...marketing self to high end parties or beer parties. how do you later explain you gave the budget price to the beer crowd? unless you just wore a simple costume and didnt do much

I don't think the OP photographer or anyone in this conversation would advocate this kind of strategy. That just seems really odd to me! If somebody is able and willing to pay me, then giddy up ..g.:

I do think, however, that a "cheap" dancer attracts a different clientele than a dancer who carries herself with elegance and professionalism - and that's what the OP photographer seems to be getting at. The market has an interesting way of sorting itself out...

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Hmmmm . . .
As to pricing differently for the same type of gig: I haven't figured that one out, either, Jes. If my 'grams start at and everything else is equal between two gigs, how would I justify doubling that amount just because a gig is a corporate retirement party rather than Uncle Joe's birthday bash? Maybe that's one argument for not putting gig fees on one's website???
Deborah

I have "starts at" prices on my website and specify things that might make the price higher, but not a "menu" with "how much higher". This gives me some leeway for PITA fees and some wiggle room for bargaining.
just re-did it actually www.samirashuruk.com
I have found that many larger events with more people/things/programs to coordinate require more of my time, even for the same length show. I book more time in my evening for these events and this is often reflected in the cost.

Yup, I second what Samira said. On my website, I write out my rates as $250+ rather than $250. I also have a disclaimer that my rates are subject to change according to set length/structure, holidays, extended travel, etc.

I'd also like to say that my experience with published rates has only been incredibly positive. I've discovered that most people who call me are serious about hiring me, and have had very few customers attempt to haggle me. While I have a slightly lower volume of calls, it's nearly a 100% conversion rate and the gigs are quality stuff. A couple of my friends, locally, have done the same thing and are equally satisfied.

Howdy y'all! Guess what I just did? After reading this thread, I turned down a gig from a band for tonight (NYE) know why? Guess what they wanted to pay me? $60 + tips (split 3 ways) *snort!*

I wish I could send them this thread so maybe they would stop undercutting themselves and the dancers they work with. It's rather sad, the band is a duet and they split everything with the dancer equally, so this means they're only making $60 each too.

Jeez....and they probably acted like that $60 gig would be the be-all, end-all of your dance career!

You couldn't pay me enough to get me out of the house with all the whackadoos, drunk drivers and speed traps on NYE. Even when I'm not gigging, I still hate going out on NYE. Sad thing is, that guy probably found at least 4 other dancers who'd jump at the chance to inflict all that drama upon themselves at such a shoddy rate

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Jeez....and they probably acted like that $60 gig would be the be-all, end-all of your dance career!

You couldn't pay me enough to get me out of the house with all the whackadoos, drunk drivers and speed traps on NYE. Even when I'm not gigging, I still hate going out on NYE. Sad thing is, that guy probably found at least 4 other dancers who'd jump at the chance to inflict all that drama upon themselves at such a shoddy rate

They called me because the other dancer they had booked is now saying she may not be able to get off work. Hmmmm perhaps she just got a call for a better job tonight?

Sorry guys, no monkey suit tonight!

Originally Posted by Jenn

Howdy y'all! Guess what I just did? After reading this thread, I turned down a gig from a band for tonight (NYE) know why? Guess what they wanted to pay me? $60 + tips (split 3 ways) *snort!*

I wish I could send them this thread so maybe they would stop undercutting themselves and the dancers they work with. It's rather sad, the band is a duet and they split everything with the dancer equally, so this means they're only making $60 each too.

Good for you.