Thread: How would you price out this gig?

I was contacted by a woman today who is interested in hiring me to choreograph a dance for a large group of teenagers, so that they can perform it at her daughters arabian nights themed b-day party. Setting aside my irritation at people thinking that this dance is so easy that anyone can pick it up in a few choreography classes, I need advice on how to price it. I have never had this kind of inquiry before. I charge 175 for a quick belly gram and this would require hours of work, not to mention frustration factor. Does $500 seem too cheap? WWBD?

Would you ask if the kids have prior dance experience, and explain that bd is a serious dance form that cannot be properly executed in a couple lessons? or should i just let the girls flounder their way through a simple choreo without feedback and correction since they aren't looking to pursue it seriously? I don't want to be responsible for making a big group of girls think sloppy dancing and bad technique is what bd is all about.

Hmmm...given the high PITA factor, I'd charge $1,000 per second, 1-second minimum. Half-second increments not available because I can't dance that fast! .w.:

definitely high PITA factor! I am not even sure there is a price that would make it worth it....lol

I would contract on an hourly rate with the contract to include that the woman be present at all "lessons." She can then decided after one or two hours if she is willing to continue to pay for a group of teenagers to collectively dance well for her daughter's amusement. You will probably get two or threee hours of work before she realizes what a huge mistake she's made.

How about suggesting that she hire you to perform at the Arabian-themed party? You could do a short performance and a lesson for the teens- I do a lot of lessons/workshops at parties and they're a lot of fun. Would give everyone a chance to see that the dance takes work to execute properly, give them a taste of what it SHOULD look like (you) and get the kids all up and dancing.

I like both these ideas. Maybe I can quote $100 per hour with a minimum of 5 hours and then pitch the idea of having me perform and do a mini lesson if she balks at the pricing for choreographing and teaching a whole dance.

I put lessons in quotations secondary to the 'large group of teenagers' who (are friends) and are going to get you paid for being a professional hired to be present while they undoubtedly socialize. In this economy, I'd take the money and run.

Oh, both ideas is a GREAT idea!

If you have the interest you could offer a class session that was exclusive to this 'bunch of teenagers' where they paid normal class prices to learn some basic moves and a very simple choreography. No need to sell yourself or the dance form short! Considering most folks pay 40-80 for a six week session of lessons, you could net enough for it to be worth your while... So long as at least part of the fee is paid up front so you don't get shorted by a last minute cancellation...

Originally Posted by amarasdance

How about suggesting that she hire you to perform at the Arabian-themed party? You could do a short performance and a lesson for the teens- I do a lot of lessons/workshops at parties and they're a lot of fun. Would give everyone a chance to see that the dance takes work to execute properly, give them a taste of what it SHOULD look like (you) and get the kids all up and dancing.

second this.
it sounds like trying to teach this group a choreography would be like herding cats...

I would also recommend charging a flat fee for creating the choreography, above and beyond an hourly teaching rate. That way if they pull the plug after a lesson or two, you're still compensated for the choreo work you did.

I've done a ton of these; and maybe because I'm young, but to me although there are a few PITAs in every crowd, teenagers tend to learn fast. I explain to them the history and Shakira VS belly dance and make sure they know it is a dance style that takes time to learn. 5 lessons you'd be surprised how dedicated and fast they pick up. I have even given some homework ;P

Just spoke to you about my thoughts. Good luck!!

Thanks everyone! I sent her an email and I will let everyone know how it pans out. :o)

Great suggestions; I've also done some along the lines of Raqon & teens can be very dedicated. Out of curiousity, how large is the group? And, what is PITA?

Pain In The Arse...

or something to dip into your favorite hummus ..l;,

As I gear up to start gigging again, I've considered offering a Super Sweet Sixteen package along these lines: five private lessons for the birthday girl so she can make a grand entrance with some very simple moves, a pro performance by me at the party (bellygram length) followed by a mini lesson for the party guests. I'm still thinking about what I'd charge, but it would be...rather substantial since that's quite a bit of work for one gig. Price of private lesson x5, plus choreography fee for the entrance number, plus bellygram rate, plus mini party lesson rate. But then, if it's being marketed toward the kind of customer who would throw a Super Sweet Sixteen party, they should already expect a healthy price tag. :)

Price it so you don't have to do it. I hate this sort of thing. You put in your effort to make something nice that is going to end up looking totally half assed when performed by people who know nothing about how to dance but think they can become instant-belly dancer with a choreography. I once had some lady ask for a private lesson and it turned out she wanted me to choreograph a cute little number for herself and her granddaughters to this Indian Hip Hop Song (!) for her golden anniversary. It was the worst lesson I've had to teach. (Incidentally, the lesson was booked by the studio itself, so I wasn't able to vet it properly beforehand...)

Regarding pricing: Cost of Private Lesson x Number of Lessons + Flat Fee for Choreography. Should run at least several hundred dollars.

yes to the above.
i also include the following when working with youth & choreography groups

in writing:
1. each participant / guardian must sign a waiver of liability
2. general rules of decorum spelled out. you have the right to ask a student to leave if they are being disruptive to the others
3. reasonable deposit prior to sessions, to cover your choreography time etc

these are not always a pita ime. the girls want to do this, so the initial approach is critical to set the tone...as you already know.

Yeah, and what happens when this lady asks you to provide costumes for all of the teens? .w.:

Definitely discuss the costuming issue UP FRONT!

"I can provide you with a list of reputable vendors from whom you can purchase level/age appropriate costume pieces, if desired."

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Yeah, and what happens when this lady asks you to provide costumes for all of the teens? .w.:

you order wholesale and sell at retail

These are all great recommendations.

I'm so glad to see them. I was contacted once for a similar gig but without enough time to even create a choreography, let alone teach it. I went through the process with the Mom, asked about what the rest of the party would look like blah, blah.............Oh! to really make it special, we would need much more rehearsal time.......etc......may I suggest..........blah blah blah...........it would be really wonderful, and much more in keeping with the rest of your event, which sounds fantastic......

It worked, but I was prepared to go to plan B, which was to quote her an astronomical fee, and then recommend a dance performance which would appear to be fabulous at a much better price!

One word about teens; I gotta say I agreed to teach a choreography once to the dance class at my daughter's high school.............I know, it's fraught with peril, but it was an easy way for me to earn my parent volunteer hours! Turned out great, they were really into it, so you never know

Price it high, and then watch it fly!

They all have i dream of genie style costumes already, hipscarves and chiffon veils. The girls in the group are all cheerleaders who do competitions so at least they should have an aptitude for picking up choreography. This gig has a high pita factor for me but I quoted her a pretty decent hourly rate with a minimum of 10 hours. If she decides to use me I will have to come up with an appropriate contract.

I likely have a similar gig coming up soon, and I'm really looking forward to it. I don't see the problem with a group wanting to learn a short, simple choreography in a few lessons. It's like learning to ballroom dance before your wedding - no one expects it to be Dancing With the Stars, but it's a way to have some fun with your fiance (or in this case, your best friends) and then be in the spotlight together on your big day. Good luck with it!

i would suggest she hire me for the party and would suggest the folowing

- the bellydancer dances ONE song on her own
- the teenagers join in and do a very smple dance on their own, or follow the bellydancers bouncing butt
- the daughter gets invited to join in as well (either together with her friends, or seperately).

i would start of with a general introduction workshop (two hours with a break), and i'd charge 150€ plus roomrental or travel expenses for that, to see "if they like the idea".

and then one or two more sessions to practice the dancing along with you (and NOT a full choreo). i'd charge about 175-200E for the day itself, and about 75-100E per hour for the teaching.

I also got a similar gig offered to me. The mom wanted twice a week lessons with 11 teenage girls for their greek grandfather's birthday party in march. I didn't have that much time for that kinda gig but another dancer in the area does and I'm sure is thoroughly enjoying it!

I wish I'd seen this thread before. I agreed to a lower rate for a friend's husband who is doing a cd release party. He has a theme and wanted to hire different kinds of dancers for each song at the release party. First he wanted 3 or 4 belly dancers but changed his mind when I quoted the price. So I agreed to do it myuself because it's one short song and they are really nice. Well now it's getting more and more out of control. There are several rehearsals, speaking lines, props, costume changes, make up artists etc. etc. etc. I would have never agreed if I'd known all of this. I thought he would send me the song and I'd prepare something, show it to them before the show, then show up and do it. Instead it's become a big production. It's been a valuable lesson to properly vet these gigs especially for friends. Sorry for the thread high-jack.

Back to Stardancer, I think the girls will quickly pick up the choreo but it's gonna be hard to get cheerleaders to be ooey gooey. At least they are young and probably already know how to move their hips. I'm interested to know how it turns out.

BTW what is PTA and PITA?