Thread: I'm sick and tired of undercutter's

I know of at least two local dancers that undercut to get a gig. And I mean grossly undercutting. When will this stop?
2 months ago: I lost a gig after it was booked and the lady called me back and canceled because she sad she found someone cheaper. Fast forward, I was at a workshop shortly after that and I heard a local dancer talking (I was standing approx 3 feet from her) and she was talking about a gig she recently did, she described the exact gig that I lost, she said that she did it for only $75 because it was close to her house and she didn't have anything planned anyway.
Even more recent: I got a call from a lady that wants a Shimmy Party (mini lesson, short performance in costume, approx 1 hour of time) everything was going well. We clicked over the phone, she looked up my website and pictures and videos. She said she had to run it past the other girl helping her plan the event but that she would be booking with me. I called her to follow up and she said she talked to another dancer that quoted to do the same thing for $100 and hipscarves for all 50 guests would be included as well. WHAT???!!! I asked her if she minded telling me who that dancer was? She told me, it's a local hafla dancer/student.
I'm so upset!!!! I don't understand why someone would not only grossly undercut the market but undercut themselves? Do they think that low of themselves that this is the only way they can get gigs? Are they completely clueless? gggrrrrr

I know for a fact dancer number 1 is an active member on Bhuz, dancer number 2 is not an active Bhuz member.
So you Chicago area dancers know, I am a salesperson and I know how to talk to customers and they usually tell me everything, so don't think you can hide thinking nobody will know. The information gets out.

Ouch. I'm sorry that happen Mahira.

Some people are just so hungry for the dance time that they will do anything. It's really sad. They must have horrible self-esteem issues that they have to dance so badly, that they will make such bad business choices.

That's sad; sorry this happened to you, Mahira--that really sux :( ,f::..c::..cr.:

Sorry to hear this Mahira. If this makes you feel any better, I haven't been able to secure one gig through people who found me online. The only customers who are willing to pay my rate are the who have seen me before or got refered to me by somebody who have seen me. It's really discouraging. This is the reason I went back to restaurant work.

It happens everywhere all the time to everyone who isn't greedy and self serving. I hate to say it but stick to your guns, move on and create your own experiences but make careful notation of who is particularly prone to that activity in your community. Be very aware of who you talk to and make an effort to speak out about appropriate pricing whenever you get a chance.

How can you give 50 hip scarves included in a hundred dollars?...Not even the cheapest of the cheap sell that low...

Originally Posted by MahiraRaqs

I know of at least two local dancers that undercut to get a gig. And I mean grossly undercutting. When will this stop?
2 months ago: I lost a gig after it was booked and the lady called me back and canceled because she sad she found someone cheaper. Fast forward, I was at a workshop shortly after that and I heard a local dancer talking (I was standing approx 3 feet from her) and she was talking about a gig she recently did, she described the exact gig that I lost, she said that she did it for only $75 because it was close to her house and she didn't have anything planned anyway.
Even more recent: I got a call from a lady that wants a Shimmy Party (mini lesson, short performance in costume, approx 1 hour of time) everything was going well. We clicked over the phone, she looked up my website and pictures and videos. She said she had to run it past the other girl helping her plan the event but that she would be booking with me. I called her to follow up and she said she talked to another dancer that quoted to do the same thing for $100 and hipscarves for all 50 guests would be included as well. WHAT???!!! I asked her if she minded telling me who that dancer was? She told me, it's a local hafla dancer/student.
I'm so upset!!!! I don't understand why someone would not only grossly undercut the market but undercut themselves? Do they think that low of themselves that this is the only way they can get gigs? Are they completely clueless? gggrrrrr

I know for a fact dancer number 1 is an active member on Bhuz, dancer number 2 is not an active Bhuz member.
So you Chicago area dancers know, I am a salesperson and I know how to talk to customers and they usually tell me everything, so don't think you can hide thinking nobody will know. The information gets out.

Mahira, I wouldn't be surprised if this was someone we both know because I know of someone also who even posts it on her website that she will do it for $70! How she can give out 50 hipscarves, well unless she has a sugar daddy distributor, she must be paying them to perform! Grrrr...call the BD Police! .p::

I'm sorry to hear about this Mahira! Undercutters stink - our dance form will never get any respect until we respect ourselves and behavior like this from members of any community damage everyone.

Argh, I'm feeling this way, too ,r:;

When we're all hard up for money these days, the last thing on earth we need is to get lowballed. For many of us, who are unemployed, partially employed or gigging full-time, our gig money pays the bills. It can feel so unfair that other dancers make it so hard for those of us who NEED this dance to make a living. And why? Just because they're desperate for attention?

Back to what I always say about undercutters. They're out there. They're usually very, umm, intense personalities. You can't change them. To think that you can be proactive and shape their little brains in this whole free market clusterf*ck would seem both unfeasible and Pollyanna-ish. The only solution is just to be better than them. And this is where your own personal improvement plans and branding strategies come in.

At the end of the day, the market sorts itself out. Undercutters will take anything they can get for a song, so they essentially help to relieve us of some of the "horror" gigs and nightmare clients. Those of us who offer something more sophisticated and compelling will attract clients who appreciate our art and will pay a premium for it. Looking back on all of the times I've been undercut recently (which has been a lot), there was almost always a PITA client involved in the transaction - and I was always relieved to get rid of them.

So my advice to you is to keep your chin up and ALWAYS keep brainstorming different ways that you can be one step ahead. Please PM me if you need to pick my brain for any specific marketing insight...

I'm guess that she may have ordered a mass quantity of hip scarves so she got them at a super low price. There are some places such as Ebay where you can buy lots for supercheap. Not the best quality either.

That's too bad - it doesn't help anyone to drive prices down! What are they thinking

I looked at your site & it's really nice; but I think you could stress your experience and professionalism a little bit more, especially on the parties (booking) page. Explain what makes hiring you the best choice. That's about all you can do in this situation, unless you want to stoop to their level (No!).
Good luck -

Originally Posted by anthea

That's too bad - it doesn't help anyone to drive prices down! What are they thinking

I looked at your site & it's really nice; but I think you could stress your experience and professionalism a little bit more, especially on the parties (booking) page. Explain what makes hiring you the best choice. That's about all you can do in this situation, unless you want to stoop to their level (No!).
Good luck -

Thank you Anthea. I will do that.

Originally Posted by Fotia

Mahira, I wouldn't be surprised if this was someone we both know because I know of someone also who even posts it on her website that she will do it for $70! How she can give out 50 hipscarves, well unless she has a sugar daddy distributor, she must be paying them to perform! Grrrr...call the BD Police! .p::

WHAT?! She actually posts on her site that she will do a gig for $70?! :(..c::,m::

50 hip scarves?! And $100 for pay? Sounds like they're gonna be in the negative on that deal.
That stinks. I have missed out on a couple of gigs because they balk at paying me "soooo much money" but I wont budge. I've put a lot of time into my studies and its insulting to accept meager pay for something I put much effort and care into.

I think it is true that some people are just hungry to dance and dont care, unfortunately. The last woman said she found someone cheaper for someone to dance at her anniversary party I wonder if it was the dancer with scarves o' plenty! (???)

well, I spoke with said dancer and she said she is new to this and didn't know. IMO, before you even consider "going pro" then talk to your teacher. Do your homework on the going rates and what to ask clients and find out what to expect or what they expect of you. Also, consider who your competition is, you need to be able to provide a real professional show in order to compete in the market and be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by MahiraRaqs

well, I spoke with said dancer and she said she is new to this and didn't know.

Yeah, see, if she is a participating member here on Bhuz then she should know very well what she was doing. I'm not a professional but I know with a couple of searches I could find all the information I needed to put together a going rate for my area.

Unless she is just totally clueless.

Mahira, I am so sorry this is happening to you. This is exactly what has happened to the Medical Transcription business.....after 25+ years of experienced, qualified transcriptionists trying to raise the rates for quality work, there seems to be no way to stop the undercutting--worst of all, it's undercut by outsourcing outside the US. Someone recently bragged to me that he had started a medical transcription business in India because he could get them to do full-time transcription for $150 a month! But hang in there -- because now they have to pay someone in the US to edit and correct all the unbelievable (and dangerous!) errors that are being made. So I have to believe that whoever hired your undercutter will come back to you and realize you are worth every bit of what you charge! Sending you hugs. Try not to let it get you down and take the high road. Eventually, quality will win out ....

Originally Posted by naiyahayal

But hang in there -- because now they have to pay someone in the US to edit and correct all the unbelievable (and dangerous!) errors that are being made.

I am one of those correcting people and let me tell you, we are raising hell about the outsourcing. We love our good, loyal transcribers! Our good transcribers are being treated terribly and literally just moments before I opened this thread, my coworker was lamenting that "we get what we pay for."

But I hate it here and I'm leaving b/c I can't deal with the unethical stuff that goes on.

Sorry to threadjack!

Mahira, I'm glad you spoke to her. Hopefully you've shown her the way. Also, teachers are great, but they can be misinformed too. If they're out of the regular gig circuit and don't spend time online, they may not know what the current rates are.

That's why taking one person's word for gospel is a bad idea and why we should encourage research and communication amongst us.

Originally Posted by MahiraRaqs

well, I spoke with said dancer and she said she is new to this and didn't know. IMO, before you even consider "going pro" then talk to your teacher. Do your homework on the going rates and what to ask clients and find out what to expect or what they expect of you. Also, consider who your competition is, you need to be able to provide a real professional show in order to compete in the market and be taken seriously.

You wouldn't go into ANY profession without knowing what industry standard for pay is or what your job requirements are. Duh.

[QUOTE=LeylaFahada;594785]I am one of those correcting people and let me tell you, we are raising hell about the outsourcing. We love our good, loyal transcribers! Our good transcribers are being treated terribly and literally just moments before I opened this thread, my coworker was lamenting that "we get what we pay for."

But I hate it here and I'm leaving b/c I can't deal with the unethical stuff that goes on.

QUOTE]

Thanks for posting this, Leyla! So it's not just California, huh ...... if it were up to the radiologists themselves, they would keep the work here, but they're no longer in control -- it's the "higher-ups" ..... and it's all about the bottom line for them, quality be damned -- and they don't care about private medical information being sent in a non-secure way ..... patients should be very, very worried about where their medical records are going..p::

Sorry about the threadjack, but it's kind of related!!

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

That's why taking one person's word for gospel is a bad idea and why we should encourage research and communication amongst us.

Yes!!!!

Originally Posted by MahiraRaqs

well, I spoke with said dancer and she said she is new to this and didn't know.

I hope you informed her that all candy & shimmies have been revoked until further notice?

off topic, but I looked at your site & LOVE your performance at the 2008 HoHoHo Habibi. i've watched it twice now .w.:

Originally Posted by Goldenpear

How can you give 50 hip scarves included in a hundred dollars?...Not even the cheapest of the cheap sell that low...

When I read this I assumed it meant she'd bring the hip scarves for people to use for the group lesson but not to keep. For those kinds of parties I tell people I can bring maybe a dozen loaner scarves.

Wow, what has been going on lately??

I was going to start a new thread about this but I see it's happening in Southern California too. There's a dancer down here who has a pretty good-sized group of girls. This weekend and last, the restaurants I dance at have just been bombarded by different girls from the same group and are low-balling like you wouldn't believe. Apparently, they show up AFTER my dance partner and I have danced and are ready to change into their costumes and dance.
There's nothing wrong at all with a dance around the restaurant, everybody auditions. But they undercut and I was even told that they offered to dance for tips only!!
Now, I know of other dancers with their own troupes who wouldn't dream of branching out at once and begin to undercut the competition. We're lucky enough to have a sensible family who manages both restaurant locations and are aware of the entertainment they book. Even they've gotten weirded out by the number of girls coming in and offering to dance for less money.
UGh, this is the part of dancing in restaurants I hate.

Originally Posted by TexasRuya

I hope you informed her that all candy & shimmies have been revoked until further notice?

off topic, but I looked at your site & LOVE your performance at the 2008 HoHoHo Habibi. i've watched it twice now .w.:

Thank you darling. I was having fun. That song just makes me dance. :-)