Thread: Restaurant Work! First-timer.

Hello!

So I may be getting a dancing job at a local ME restaurant. It's huge and upscale inside, very beautiful. This would be the first time for me doing restaurant work. I have my prices drawn out based off of Samira's going rates page: Belly Dancer Rates

The North Florida going rate for restaurants is 2-3, 15 minute sets, at $30 and up. I would be doing 20 minute sets at a minimum of 3 sets per night, so does $40 sound appropriate? How often do you dance at restaurants per week? Is 2 nights a week the goal? I'd like to do AT LEAST 2 nights a week. That would mean $240 without tips, per week (that's a lot for me lol)!

Also, there are no other dancers in the area of NW Florida that do restaurant work, except in a city that's almost 2 hours away (it's a tribal/cabaret troupe at an Indian restaurant), which is why I'm looking to bhuz for advice. Another note, this restaurant has never had a BDer before but are really looking for one because their clientele keep asking for one.

What other things should I keep in mind, advice wise? Do you think the prices are right? I'm worried they will think it's too much since they have never hired a dancer before, or that those prices are too low. Advice-wise, I know to wear shoes! But what about props and floorwork? There looks like an area up at the front that could be used as a stage area. What about wings? The ceilings are high, but I don't want to whack anyone. Two-slit skirts or no slits? Gah I'm so nervous/excited! Also, I have only one pro costume, which is all coin and noisy. Will it be too noisy, especially with zills? How soon should I start investing in more bedlah (I like bra/belts more than tight skirts)? Within the first week?

Thank you everyone!!

I don't know if this is a hazard at this restaurant, but I strongly suggest to tell the owners are aware that plate smashing is NOT allowed! I filled in for one of our local dancers at a Greek restaurant, and they loved smashing plates there. The owner came out with a stack of about 10 big dinner plates and began firing them off like a freaking skeet shooter! It was awful - once the shards stopped flying, I then had to worry about accidentally stepping on a chunk of porcelain debris. Cutting my feet wasn't a worry thanks to my shoes, but porcelain slides on tile like a hot damn and slipping (then falling ONTO the porcelain shard minefield) was a very real possibility.

I found that some zilling is definitely a good thing, as it attracts attention, is generally well-liked by customers, and looks flashy. Just keep in mind not to over-do it. A bit of zilling here and there is great, just not the whole way through. Veil = yes, cane can also be used if there is the space, but I'd avoid wings. Scope out the restaurant and clientele beforehand so that you can decide to go with a really upbeat party party set or go for more classical type music.

Have fun!! :D

thanks! Yeah i think you're right, i'll avoid wings, at least until i'm sure there is enough space between me and passing plates or passing customers. I don't think they smash plates, but then again, they serve mainly Greek and Turkish food, with some Egytian, so I'll double check. There is a problem with dancing there that I just realized. The restaurant has lots of floorspace and is large in general, however, there is a big divider that goes down the middle, almost separating the room in half. Do you think this would pose as a problem if I wanted to mingle with my audience? Only half a room would be able to see that at a time. That's one of my new main concerns

I wouldn't do Wings or floorwork. With floorwork the audience can't see you and also restauant floors are usually yuck. Save it for raised platform/stage areas where people can see you and appreciate the show. What's the clientele at the restaurant? Is it mostly ME? If you're planning to do 3 sets a night twice a week, then yes, you're going to need more costumes.

Edit: what halftruths said

All right, good point on the floorwork! and as for the clientele, not sure. I've only been in there once and I saw mainly Americans. There was a mix of old and young and a family was there. I'm sure college students go (Pensacola is a rather small city, but has several colleges, so lots of us young'ns) but I went during lunch time. I'm going for dinner one night soon, so i can have a better scope on the nighttime clientele.

Hi and congrats on the gig. You'll get tons of advice on here, so I'm just going to give one piece of advice.

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

Also, I have only one pro costume, which is all coin and noisy. Will it be too noisy, especially with zills? How soon should I start investing in more bedlah (I like bra/belts more than tight skirts)? Within the first week?

I would say sooner rather than later. It's a tricky balance. You don't want to overindulge in costumes right away (I mean maybe you want to... but it's not best for the wallet), but you don't want to wear the same thing over and over either. You may not have the same customers all the time, and you may be tempted to think, well these are new people seeing it... but you may have regulars, your restaurant may want you to bring in more regulars, and sometimes the staff want to see the shows too... so they are regulars too. Costuming can be expensive, so look for deals, make your own if you have sewing talent, try mixing B&B's with different skirts/pants/accessories to give them different looks. Do not skimp on the quality of your costuming, there are ways to have affordable, professional looks.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

I would be doing 20 minute sets at a minimum of 3 sets per night, so does $40 sound appropriate? How often do you dance at restaurants per week? Is 2 nights a week the goal? I'd like to do AT LEAST 2 nights a week.

Is that $40 per set, so guaranteed $120 per night. If so, that sounds fine, but don't let the owners have you in and then only do 1 set = $40 and then send you home. Agree on the minimum number of paid sets per night.

How often is completely up to you and the demand at the restaurant, but the norm at a single restaurant is 1 or 2 nights a week.

But what about props and floorwork? There looks like an area up at the front that could be used as a stage area. What about wings? The ceilings are high, but I don't want to whack anyone.

This will depend in part on what style of dance sets they want. If they want Egyptian sets, light veil, cane, and sagat would be about it for props. For Vintage Orientale/American Cabaret, veil, zills, sword, cane, or hand candles are all usually ok. I would skip the isis wings b/c of the size of the span and the need for people to move around while you are performing. Talk with the owners to see what they want. I'd count floorwork out b/c without a raised stage or at least a designated performance area, you are going to be on the floor where very few people can see you and where waitstaff and patrons have likely spilled an amazing array of foodstuffs.

Two-slit skirts or no slits? Gah I'm so nervous/excited! Also, I have only one pro costume, which is all coin and noisy. Will it be too noisy, especially with zills? How soon should I start investing in more bedlah (I like bra/belts more than tight skirts)? Within the first week?

Slits are your preference, but nothing too risque assuming this is a family restaurant. You are going to need a lot more costumes. A good rule of thumb is 2 costumes per night and able to go a full month at least before repeating costumes. Repeat customers very quickly notice if you are always wearing the same costumes. If you like the bedlah and skirt look, put together a minimum of 3 or 4 bedlah with quite a few sets of skirts/accessories and you can have a nice wardrobe for a beginning restaurant dancer.

mmm any excuse to invest in more yummy sparklies ;P

I have another costume on hold for me right now. I have one coin, this blue princessy one on hold right now, and then some others i'm constructing. I need to hurry up and finish so I can have a few more on hand. Hopefully I'll be meeting with the actual owner soon and we can go over details. Just out of curiosity, how much do dancers get in tips, on average? I know my first gig I did, I received a little over $40 in tips for a bellygram, but these were all in ones -.-

Do you suggest I seed my belt with 5's or even 10's instead of 1's? Do you think I could guestimate around $50 in tips per night, or is that way to hopeful ;)

BTW: Thank you so much for answering all my questions, everyone! You are all so helpful!!

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

Hello!
The North Florida going rate for restaurants is 2-3, 15 minute sets, at $30 and up. I would be doing 20 minute sets at a minimum of 3 sets per night, so does $40 sound appropriate? How often do you dance at restaurants per week? Is 2 nights a week the goal? I'd like to do AT LEAST 2 nights a week. That would mean $240 without tips, per week (that's a lot for me lol)!

That should be $30 and up *per 15 set*.
To be honest, 3 20 minutes sets in one restaurant in the same night is a lot. Do they have the customer turnover or clientele to have that make sense?

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

Do you suggest I seed my belt with 5's or even 10's instead of 1's? Do you think I could guestimate around $50 in tips per night, or is that way to hopeful ;)

Never assume you will get tips. Sometimes it will be raining money, sometimes the well will be dry.
I don't enter with money showing, it's tucked/hidden in my belt (if I am choosing to seed my belt). When I DO however, it's usually a $20.

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

Do you suggest I seed my belt with 5's or even 10's instead of 1's? Do you think I could guestimate around $50 in tips per night, or is that way to hopeful ;)

Nothing helpful, sadly. I have receive everywhere between 0 and $500 in tips. (The $500 was at a huge wedding.) I would say that it depends a lot on the restaurant. One of the ones I used to dance at averaged $50-$75 a night in tips. Another averaged $15-$30. At all of them, there were the occasional $0 nights.

I don't personally seed $ in my costume, but if I have a friend in the audience, I will have them tip me if the crowd is unsure about the standard process. :)

that's what i meant to say, $30 per set, i guess i didn't specify. But I'll feel them out and if they feel like 3 20 min sets are good, then so be it! but if not, then I may bump it down to 15 minutes or just 2 sets of 20 minutes. And that's a little disheartening about the tips! Some nights you don't get ANY?? Hopefully I'll have more of the $75 average per night than the $0 :D

Just an idea- you might want to do the negotiations with a higher rate for 1 show, and a discounted rate for more than 1. For instance, the Guild of Oriental Dance (in MN) has restaurant wages currently set at $60 for 1 show, $75 for 2, and $90 for 3 (per evening), rather than $30/show. It works out to the same, if there are 3 shows, but this way, they see it as a good deal having more than 1 show, and we're not going out to dance for a small amount, if the 3 shows doesn't pan out.

I started dancing at 1 restaurant last year that was supposed to be 2 dancers dancing simulaneously (but not "together"- the room is VERY long, so 1 dancer would be at 1 end and 1 at the other, switching sides periodically). They wanted 3 shows per night. Great. Decided to start very quickly- "can you start this week?" and I couldn't get another dancer lined up in time, so I did the first night by myself- 1 show. Weren't busy enough for 2, let alone 3. I danced there weekly for a couple of months before I got laid off (laid off all entertainment- they also had live music a couple nights/week).

In 1 night, they went from wanting 2 dancers doing 3 shows, to 1 dancer doing 1 show. So I was very glad that the first show had a higher rate.

I would also add: if there is no one currently dancing in your area- than you should easily be able to raise the rate. If $30/set for 3 x 15 sets WAS standard the last time someone reported rates to me... that could have been 4 or 5 years ago (I don't get updates all the time from each area).
Once you establish rates it is REALLY difficult to raise them (yes, even with the places that promise), so start higher.
For perspective- here in DC regular gigs generally range from $75-$120 per 20 minute show.
If a venue can afford three shows in one night (and it's not a HUGE, CROWDED venue), than your price per show should be raised.

Ok, Samira, that's a good point. What would you suggest then? I wouldn't know where to start when setting a minimum rate for local restaurant work. Locally, for a 10 minute bellygram, it's $100 minimum and a 20 minute show is $200. Do you think $75 per show (and maybe discounts for more shows per night like Amara suggested) be a good starting point? Or more? Obviously if it's a regular job, it'll be less than a private gig, right?

This is getting more complex than I thought :P

It's a hard call- I can't tell you what is right in your region.
Yes, regular/weekly gigs are less than party gigs.
Again for comparison- our weekly gigs range from $75-$120 for a 20 min show. Our party gigs generally start at $250 (although we do have some who are still at $200) and go up, way up from there.
You need to do what you're comfortable with- and remember- if it works out- this will be every weekend for you. It needs to be enough to 1) make sense business wise with all the investments you've made in your dance as well as your prep time, travel time, time spent between sets etc 2) be worth all your weekends. It needs to be enough to inspire you to be the responsible, reliable, polished professional.
I only say that last thing because when I hear about "no call, no shows" or owners commenting on dancers who are "flaky" about showing up - all too often it was about a gig that paid peanuts.

I'm finding out that $30-40 per set happens in multiple area in the US. I'm digusted at these low rates. 15-20 years ago, the going rate in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada was $75 (that's double current rates in some US cities TODAY!!!!). It is now $100. $80, $85, $90 are common in the Canadian areas I'm familiar with. That's for 1 20 minutes set then you go home. End of gig.
This business of waiting around for the possibility of multiple sets strikes me as ridiculous unless the establishment is willing to #1, pay appropriately for the entertainment and #2 pay for me to wait around. Stand up for yourselves, fellow dancers! You deserve better!
Eden-eyes, if you are the only performer in your area you have an eviable chance to set the bar high. In fact, I see it as your duty to set your rates high, as in, what they should be. I'd accept no less than $80 per 15-20 minute set. If they want you to wait around for another set, make it $100 for the first set, $80 for subsequent ones. If they don't like it, walk away. You are worth more.
Tips should NEVER be a substitute for payment. They are EXTRA. You don't count of them to get paid properly.
There's been some really good advice in this thread for experienced dancers. (hard to raise rates, big ideas that don't materialize, etc). Good luck taking it all in and making a decision that feels right in your heart. Cheers!

WOW! *salutes* Yes Ma'am! I didn't think of it as my duty, but you are right. Thanks for that, I see what you mean. Boy am I glad I came on here for advice!

Originally Posted by Hala Jamal

I'm finding out that $30-40 per set happens in multiple area in the US. I'm digusted at these low rates. 15-20 years ago, the going rate in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada was $75 (that's double current rates in some US cities TODAY!!!!). It is now $100. $80, $85, $90 are common in the Canadian areas I'm familiar with. That's for 1 20 minutes set then you go home. End of gig.
This business of waiting around for the possibility of multiple sets strikes me as ridiculous unless the establishment is willing to #1, pay appropriately for the entertainment and #2 pay for me to wait around. Stand up for yourselves, fellow dancers! You deserve better!
Eden-eyes, if you are the only performer in your area you have an eviable chance to set the bar high. In fact, I see it as your duty to set your rates high, as in, what they should be. I'd accept no less than $80 per 15-20 minute set. If they want you to wait around for another set, make it $100 for the first set, $80 for subsequent ones. If they don't like it, walk away. You are worth more.
Tips should NEVER be a substitute for payment. They are EXTRA. You don't count of them to get paid properly.
There's been some really good advice in this thread for experienced dancers. (hard to raise rates, big ideas that don't materialize, etc). Good luck taking it all in and making a decision that feels right in your heart. Cheers!

all of the advice above is excellent! set the bar high, don't count on tips, and make sure your off-stage comportment is as professional as onstage to make sure the servers, owners, managers and GP all treat you with respect......also, scope out the venue to see what the demographics are....this will help you with costume choices, as well as music choices.......if there are a reasonable amount of arab/persian/indian clientele, you want strong arabic/turkish classics and solid pop....most of that clientele HATE BDSS music, cuz it's produced fusion that is designed more for american audiences and dancers who innovate, but doesn't resonate with arab audiences......and you need ALOT of good sets to rotate if you dance frequently, what kind of music are you using?

I have a pretty big music library, i've got lots of Egyptian, Turkish, some Greek, lots of Lebanese. I've got lots of classic songs, both with and without vocals, some new sounding stuff, some BDSS, lots of modern Lebanese (Emad Sayyah), and quite a bit of pop.

that's interested about that particular demographic not liking BDSS music! kinda makes sense though, i guess. In my area, we don't have a high population of Arab/Turks/Greeks but we do have a lot of people with Indian origin. I'll check it out when I go in for dinner one night.

congrats! restaurant work is fun..

ask to show up early if possible and do a few runs thru the restaurant, get to know where the rugs and hanging lights are. fans in the room? they will blow out candles or make veils tough to handle. where do the servers enter the room? lay down in the middle of the floor and see how much room you have for floor work. take in your props and realistically see the dimensions.

have fun!!

Ok so at dinner I made the following observations:

Clientele demographic: mostly middle-aged American couples or groups of friends. A few younger couples present. A few college kids. This was a Friday night. Was not packed, but was sufficiently crowded to keep the chef busy non-stop!

Floorwork: NO. No room to do floorwork. I'll have to limit veil use unless they can move the tables in the front for me.

The dividers I mentioned earlier are lower than I thought and won't limit visual ability for any of the people to see me. Prices for entrees were around $15-25 a piece. They played all Arabic pop music in the background the entire time, so I'll ask the guy hiring me what he wants. I assume with the demographic they would want the classic pieces with the whole "Hollywood" feel to them.

Food was delish :)

Floor was mainly carpet with a section of tile in the middle of the restaurant. It looked really clean, but I'm wearing shoes anyway!

That's all for now, I go in on Sunday to talk to the big guy!

Restaurant work: be prepared for anything! Tripping over children, waitstaff food trays, rowdy clientele, overeager fans, weird stuff on floor, blah nights where everyone stares blankly at you...etc. You are up close & personal, in their faces. The art of maintaining YOUR personal space, not infringing on the CUSTOMER'S space - yet exuding a welcoming air of warmth, beauty, entertainment: this is at the crux of what makes or breaks a restaurant dancer. I love restaurant work, it's lively, rewarding, hones your skills, give people a special night. The down side - tiring, giving out your energy, being on display, late nights, rude people, etc. For me it was a matter of toughening up without losing my compassionate warm side. It's all about MY attitude, not the owner, staff, customers.

You should at a minimum take home $100 a night. In my area, dancers take this home after doing 1- 20-30 minute set, although 2 sets isn't unusual.

Never count on tips. When I first started dancing, I was paid $75 a night. I went to California and they tried to get me to dance for $25 plus tips or free + Tips! I refused and got my regular pay plus tips. This was back in the 80's! You can never count on tips so make sure you get a decent pay.

1 costume??? You need to invest! If you are working at the same place, you need a minimum of 3-5 costumes to start. To keep costs down, invest in a basic bra and belt set in silver, gold, and maybe black, and change up your skirts and veils. That is a better option then buying whole indivualistic style costumes.

Thanks for all the help everyone, but I finally talked to the boss-man and he said he's not interested in hiring a dancer until the summer, when they get busier and that they would be getting in touch with me in May. There is an Indian restaurant that I'll look into, and maybe this other Greek one. I'm a little depressed, but I'll get over it.

DELETE

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

Thanks for all the help everyone, but I finally talked to the boss-man and he said he's not interested in hiring a dancer until the summer, when they get busier and that they would be getting in touch with me in May. There is an Indian restaurant that I'll look into, and maybe this other Greek one. I'm a little depressed, but I'll get over it.

O! I am sorry to hear that. It IS depressing, to build up for something and then POOF, gone! But, the good side, is that you have done some research and learned a lot. And learned another thing about restaurant/club work in general: that owners are often all full of ideas about having entertainment (bands, dancers, etc.). Then when they actually realize the financial committment, they balk. Foolishly not realizing it will increase sales! So don't take it to heart; it happens all the time. I also speak from having experience with bands, and other show-bizzy stuff.

Yeah but I did some more research on my area and found 8 new possible venues I could dance at! So I'm getting encouraged. And at least with that place, if I don't get the job at Carnival (Entertainment Staff! yay!), I can at least have a restaurant job there, and then when it's time to move into my new apartment and head back to college, I would still have it!! Btw, one of the venues I found is a resort that is based off of Mediterranean structure and decorations with lots of Greek decor and ambiance going on (and judging from the pictures, some Moroccan, too...for some reason? lol). What do you think my chances are at getting a dance job there? I won't get my hopes up for that place, but do you think it's possible?

Most of the other places I found are mostly Greek restaurants and places that offer live entertainment late into the night.

EDIT: oh and I finished two of my costume projects so now I have 3 costumes available to me! yay!

Originally Posted by eden_eyes

What do you think my chances are at getting a dance job there? I won't get my hopes up for that place, but do you think it's possible?

Anything is possible. There's always a 50/50 chance you can get hired at any of them, but their financial situation is what'll determine it. And that's something none of us here know or could hazard a guess at. ..g.: