Thread: Going rates for teaching workshops . . . .

I have had several inquiries about teaching double veil workshops . . . I have never done anything like that before. I was wondering what the going rate is, etc?

How much do you charge per hour?

Do you get compensated for your milage?

Do you require a hotel or place to stay the night if it's a long drive?

Do you require your food to be paid for, etc?

I never really thought about any of this before, but I wanted to be prepared in case I start getting some serious contacts . . . . Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

We pay regional teachers $100/hr. We offer them a place to sleep in our homes, buy their food, give them gas money. (Our most recent teacher wanted a 50/50 split of the gross, it worked out to the same thing since we held the workshop in our studio.) We pay national/international names $150 - $200/hr, pay airfare and housing (sometimes they'll stay in a home, sometimes not). We don't pay their food BECAUSE the person who volunteers to transport them around town always ends up taking them out to eat and then, out of courtesy, picks up the tab (eating out with a great teacher = informative conversation, so in a way the teacher is still on the job). So now we pay the person who is driving the teacher around the food per-diem.

Originally Posted by Zepora

I have had several inquiries about teaching double veil workshops . . . I have never done anything like that before. I was wondering what the going rate is, etc?

How much do you charge per hour?

Do you get compensated for your milage?

Do you require a hotel or place to stay the night if it's a long drive?

Do you require your food to be paid for, etc?

I never really thought about any of this before, but I wanted to be prepared in case I start getting some serious contacts . . . . Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

General Fee: Most workshop instructors charge between $100-$250/hr. or do a percentage split with a guaranteed minimum payment. Depending on the workshop, I charge $100-$150/hr.

Mileage/Travel: If I am driving to the location and back, I charge IRS mileage rates in addition to my teaching fee. If flying, the sponsor pays for airfare.

Lodging: If I have to stay overnight, the sponsor provides a suitable location (either a hotel room or other private lodging).

Food: Generally, I don't require that food is paid for, but most sponsors do cover the costs of food during the workshop time.

Performance: Some teachers also charge an extra fee to perform at the workshop show. In general, I do not charge a performance fee, but it is something that you will find in a lot of contracts.

Thanks ladies, I appreciate the feedback. Very informative! Keep the info. coming please!

I'll give you a couple of different examples.
Big name pricing themselves right out of the market fees:
$300 per hour with a minimum of 4 hours (or 70/30 split whichever's higher)
$300 for a 10-15 minute performance
Transportation, lodging, and food are the responsibility of the promoter.

A different big name:
$200 per hour with 3 hour minimum (or 70/30 split)
$250 for 10-20 minute performance
Transportation, lodging, and food are the responsibility of the promoter.

A Regional dancer:
$175 per hour with 2 hour minimum (or 60/40 split)
$150 for 10-20 minute performance
Transportation and lodging is promoters responsibility (Depends on how far away, always negotiable)

As you can see, some people get carried away with their pricing (and as such, price themselves right out of the market) while others are more down-to-earth with their pricing. I think a teacher should be compensated appropriately for her time and effort. However, the 2 big named dancers (equal in both their ability and how well they're known) have a difference of $650 dollars of what they MUST make on any workshop. So you can see where most people would choose big name B over big name A.

Also wanted to include that the mileage rate right now is $.50 per mile.

Don't forget to factor in range of hours. Being hired to teach for five hours and then perform at a concert is probably going to take almost as much of a bite out of your schedule as being hired to teach for 2 hours. Some teachers don't want to come to town unless they can teach for an entire weekend plus concert.

I was surprised to hear from workshop teachers that they are sometimes booked for flights with several transfers. We try to get non-stop flights for our teachers whenever possible; they show up in a much better mood and, more importantly, they show up. Air travel is becoming a crap shoot. If you are on a flight that transfers in Cincinnati for L'ville, you may end up in Chicago for three days instead.

Let your sponsors know when you want to return. I always assumed the teacher was in a hurry to get back home until the time the teacher begged me to delay the flight by one day so that they could recover physically before getting on the plane. (Although actually I think there was some interest in checking our area out as well... good marketing skills :) )

Originally Posted by Rya_of_Indiana

Big name pricing themselves right out of the market fees:
$300 per hour with a minimum of 4 hours (or 70/30 split whichever's higher)
$300 for a 10-15 minute performance
Transportation, lodging, and food are the responsibility of the promoter.

It was explained to me that some $300/hr teachers expect to be hired to teach a hundred or more students at a time, and they price accordingly. I got a quote last year that included an additional fee for each additional hundred students. We are definately not part of that teacher's target market.

It's time to interject the link to my all-time favorite thread on tribe. It's called "The Broken Dance Economy". Sit back, grab your favorite beverage, and enjoy. It's a long read.

The Broken Dance Economy

For our dance festival, we usually pay teachers a minimum of $150-$200 per hour or 70% of the workshop profit, whichever is greater. Every teacher is also guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours of teaching and a $200 performance fee for being in the show.

We pay for travel, hotel room (the event is in a hotel, so this is the most convenient for everyone), and any meals that are offered as a part of the festival.

....and we give them a snazzy t-shirt :-)

When I or my troupe teach workshops on the road, we ask for pretty much the same in return, minus the meals and t-shirt. Sometimes the performance price is negotiated down or out of the deal, depending on the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

It's time to interject the link to my all-time favorite thread on tribe. It's called "The Broken Dance Economy". Sit back, grab your favorite beverage, and enjoy. It's a long read.

The Broken Dance Economy

Thanks for posting! I really enjoyed reading this - thanks for sharing!!

Originally Posted by Andalee914

Thanks for posting! I really enjoyed reading this - thanks for sharing!!

No problem. It's been one of the most eye-opening threads I have ever seen. I love to share it.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

No problem. It's been one of the most eye-opening threads I have ever seen. I love to share it.

I read this last time re-posted in a simiar thread, keep re-posting, it is very informative & helpful!

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

I read this last time re-posted in a simiar thread, keep re-posting, it is very informative & helpful!

I agree 100%!

Deborah

I'm nobody in particular, but I sponsor workshops as part of my BD festival, some with National/International Big Names, some with Regional Big Names, and some Regionally Known But Not Big Names.

I also sponsor myself in an annual workshop.

A a workshop instructor, I offer instruction in 90 and 105 minute programs. I price myself at $25 per registered person for either length of workshop.

If I was to be sponsored by someone else locally (no overnight or extended travel), I'd probably ask for $25 per registered person with a minimum of $200. The sponsor could then price the workshop at whatever fee he/she thought the market would bear. I'd also expect that the sponsor would have a required minimum number of registrations in order to run the workshop and would cancel it if that minimum was not met within a certain time frame prior to the event.

Oh, and I would require a sponsor to provide a particular brand of imported water at $5 per six-ounce bottle. Yeah, right. Sheesh.

Deborah

Originally Posted by Rya_of_Indiana

I'll give you a couple of different examples.
Big name pricing themselves right out of the market fees:
$300 per hour with a minimum of 4 hours (or 70/30 split whichever's higher)
$300 for a 10-15 minute performance
Transportation, lodging, and food are the responsibility of the promoter.

A different big name:
$200 per hour with 3 hour minimum (or 70/30 split)
$250 for 10-20 minute performance
Transportation, lodging, and food are the responsibility of the promoter.

A Regional dancer:
$175 per hour with 2 hour minimum (or 60/40 split)
$150 for 10-20 minute performance
Transportation and lodging is promoters responsibility (Depends on how far away, always negotiable)

As you can see, some people get carried away with their pricing (and as such, price themselves right out of the market) while others are more down-to-earth with their pricing. I think a teacher should be compensated appropriately for her time and effort. However, the 2 big named dancers (equal in both their ability and how well they're known) have a difference of $650 dollars of what they MUST make on any workshop. So you can see where most people would choose big name B over big name A.

Also wanted to include that the mileage rate right now is $.50 per mile.

Yes, but you must consider that big name teacher on the weekend who has to travel, can usually command somewhere between $100-$300 for a LOCAL half hour club show or wedding gig, what are they giving up to travel??? Not that all big names are worth it. There are many less well known and local talent that are equally worthy. But they too face the same cost considerations. Why would I travel to take a $300 gig in Iowa if I could do 2shows in MI that same day, make the same amount of money and sleep in my own bed and keep to my own routine? Plus the likelihood for repeat gigs increases in my own neighborhood vs. out of town.

I agree, some dancers overvalue themselves and price themselves out of the market. But, traveling comes at a price. When I was young and in my 20's I never considered it. Now, you got to pay me well to compensate me for my time from my home.

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

I read this last time re-posted in a simiar thread, keep re-posting, it is very informative & helpful!

I have the whole thing stored in a file...just in case tribe ever goes down for good. LOL. Seriously! I know headliners that completely changed the way they do business as a result of reading that thread.

Originally Posted by norma

Yes, but you must consider that big name teacher on the weekend who has to travel, can usually command somewhere between $100-$300 for a LOCAL half hour club show or wedding gig, what are they giving up to travel??? Not that all big names are worth it. There are many less well known and local talent that are equally worthy. But they too face the same cost considerations. Why would I travel to take a $300 gig in Iowa if I could do 2shows in MI that same day, make the same amount of money and sleep in my own bed and keep to my own routine? Plus the likelihood for repeat gigs increases in my own neighborhood vs. out of town.

I don't think the example was suggesting that a headliner travels for a $300 job. The first example said $300 AN HOUR with a 4-hour minimum for teaching. $300 x 4 = $1200. In addition, it's another $300 for a 15 minute performance. This example is a $1500 job...guaranteed, as all the expenses would be covered by the producer. One day out of your life and the experience of traveling to a different city with all your expenses covered to teach something you love and to make $1500 in a day is a pretty rocking deal. If you make it a 2-day event, and double those hours, then you are looking at another $1200, for a total of $2700 for the weekend. If you do two weekends a month, then you are making $5400 gross in a month, or $64,800 in a year.

The instructor makes $1500 for the day and the producer has expenses of $2000 (assuming a $250 plane ticket, $200 for a 2-night hotel stay, and another $50 for food). If the 4-hour class costs $80 & a show ticket costs $20, then you roughly need at least 20 participants just to break even on the cost of the instructor. This does not include any expenses such as advertising, insurance, studio rental, music rights, water or snacks, printed materials, etc.

Based on my own experience in my own market, these are terms that I would not likely agree too. It's a rocking deal for the performer, and a near impossibility for the producer to make anything. In fact, I'd be afraid of losing money with this scenario. The individual would have to be one amazing draw for me to even consider these terms.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

It's time to interject the link to my all-time favorite thread on tribe. It's called "The Broken Dance Economy".

That thread is one of my all-time UNfavorites. The hostility and downright anger that I feel in my breast when I re-read it, even after two years, surprises even me. Some of the teacher descriptions of the lovely life of a workshop sponsor make me want to roll on the floor and bite.. not them, obviously, since they are not within reach... I have no doubt they wrote with the same intent to both explain and understand as I did but I still want to bite them.

Originally Posted by maurazebra

That thread is one of my all-time UNfavorites. The hostility and downright anger that I feel in my breast when I re-read it, even after two years, surprises even me. Some of the teacher descriptions of the lovely life of a workshop sponsor make me want to roll on the floor and bite.. not them, obviously, since they are not within reach... I have no doubt they wrote with the same intent to both explain and understand as I did but I still want to bite them.

ROFL. Well, it's precisely THAT polarization between the respective parties that makes the thread so interesting. It never ceases to amaze me how little regard many people in this market give to sponsors.

Yes, the thread has some juicy moments to be sure. But it's still one of my favorites because it's one of the few places that so many people brought up all the problems that exist in our community with regard to workshops.

I'll never forget how shocked I was when I heard of the 70/30 split for the first time. I was downright offended. The artist just let it roll off her tongue as if it was all perfectly normal. I was horrified.

Interesting to go back into time and re-read that thread, and combine with the additional experiences I've had over the last 3 years, including a 30+ stop national tour in 2009 and the state of the economy throughout the nation.

What I would probably go back and change are the arbitrary numbers I threw out for examples, because some people obviously got hung up on those, rather than the actual experience/transactions involved.

My basic contract is pretty much the same as it was then, a reasonable flat rate for a minimum amount of hours, or percentage split *after expenses* - but one of the key things for me is always being able to negotiate with the sponsor to work out the best situation for all involved, and that includes working with a festival's already established guidelines/contracts. If I had to guess, minus the festivals, out of the 50+ workshops I've taught since that thread started, 97% of them were by the flat rate terms. It's an important focus of mine as a contracted teacher for the experience to be as easy, profitable, and stress-minimal as possible for all parties involved.

But there are definitely instructors out there not keen on that same sensibility. The terms, conditions, and rates I have recently seen with some relatively new instructors is dumbfounding. It makes me wish that they could all go through sponsoring a workshop weekend or a major festival in order to understand how it really works. By themselves. Because I've seen some divas claim to do this, but know that all of the work was done by their assistants/students/partners/etc, with their names attached. Gotta get down and dirty, DIY.

I also still wish that some folks who decide to host workshops really consider what it takes to do it RIGHT. You need to have good community standing and understanding, excellent organizational and marketing skills, and an understanding of student and teacher needs - and how to maintain your stress levels responsibly. And if the event fails, it's not just the sponsor, but the teacher, the students, and the community that suffers.

Originally Posted by rosehips

Interesting to go back into time and re-read that thread, and combine with the additional experiences I've had over the last 3 years, including a 30+ stop national tour in 2009 and the state of the economy throughout the nation.

I feel the same in terms of looking back and combining my perspective then with my own additional experiences. My understanding of how to run an event and workshops was definitely influenced by that thread. I think it gave me even more confidence as a sponsor when I saw that there were others that felt the way I did. And I know that there were several well-known instructors that read that thread and changed the way they did business as a result.

Having talented sponsors is something we need to value more in this community.