Thread: OMG I am now inducted into "come teach my strippers how to BD" group

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I was just contacted by a gentleman named Sunny who owns an exotic dance company. He asked me to come to teach workshops to his ladies about certain aspects of belly dance so his girls could "incorporate it into their routines"

I gave him the speal about how he should be careful as it is an ethnic dance and is not at all sexual and that it is actually considered demeanig to bring it into such context. I told him that I could not ethically teach because I have worked so hard educating people that it is not associated stripping ,f::

He replied, "well you could just teach the aspects that could be helpful to the girls and they could take it into their own context.",m::

Oi.

So PLEASE, for the sake of all dancers around the world, if anyone contacts you, please tell them the same. It is our duty. I have nothing against exotic dance, pole dancing, etc as I consider it an art form too. However, we are in a different boat here.

Thanks,
Amity

I forgot to mention...hehe.

I told him I knew of another dancer who might be interested, then called her up and warned her and told her to throw stones too and then reccommend another teacher who would throw stones....eventually hopefully he'll get the hint ;)

I have been in belly dance classes with strippers. Some of the exotic dancers in my class took it to incorporate belly dance moves into their acts or to learn to move more gracefully.

But, of course, these were classes open to anyone, not a private workshop just for exotic dancers.

he sounds like a pain. If the dancers who worked for him wanted belly dance lessons, they would take bellydance lessons.

It sounds like he fell in love with his own half-baked idea. I can't help thinking of a boss at a day job who decides everyone should spend their weekend at some firewalking retreat, when really the employees would all rather be elsewhere...

Wow. I am getting way too cynical in dealing with agents, owners, and the like!

Originally Posted by lotus

It sounds like he fell in love with his own half-baked idea. I can't help thinking of a boss at a day job who decides everyone should spend their weekend at some firewalking retreat, when really the employees would all rather be elsewhere...

I think I saw this episode of The Office!..g.:

I've turned down several strippers who wanted me to teach them BD so they could put it in their act, I just flat out told them 'no' and why. One girl offered me $150/hr trying to bribe me to teach her, I still wouldn't do it!!

oh geez!
...and why would his girls want to work any harder for the money they already make?
work harder for the same $ ?
sounds like he was having a "belly dance fantasy moment"
so glad you said no, and why not

Originally Posted by CFerhat

I think I saw this episode of The Office!..g.:

Even better, I lived through several in real life! ..l;,

I don't understand why he thinks they need lessons - if he wants to do a harem night why not just dress them up in harem outfits and let them do what they normally do? Otherwise it is funny to make them work harder for the same money.

Or, as my tips lately have been practically nonexistent, less money. *insert rueful face*

There is some silly reality show here called 'erotic star', and apparently (though i never saw the episode) one of our most respected Aus. teachers taught the girls some moves! I was shocked to hear she had participated in the show, and then acted as judges at the end of the episode. Like i said i haven't seen the show but it does make me wonder?

Well. I don't like bellydance stripping, that is to say, stripping that involves all the trappings of performance belly dance - ie the costume, the veil etc. Because it does further blur the line between what we do and what they do, and especially in puritanical countries, can make it harder for belly dancers to perform outside erotic contexts.

However. As I understand it, moves we associate with BD have been in the strip world for years and years and years. I think I recall Tinah making a comment along the lines that strippers don't tend to shimmy any more because the aesthetic now is for the athletic hardbody, not the soft fleshy one. But that doesn't mean they didn't 20, 30, 40 years ago.

it is an ethnic dance

That's right, and I think it is our job, when we are not ME, to remember that whether we like it or not, we represent ME people when we do it.

and is not at all sexual

You know what? I'm going to come out and say it. Belly dance *is* sexual. Of course it's sexual. You should hear my Lebanese supervisor on how sexual it is (and she consider this a very positive thing). You could maybe ask hookers in Egypt why they belly dance. Of course it's sexual. But that's not *all* it is, and *that* is the key issue. It's also, mostly, about life and love and fun and good times and sorrow and pain and just liking music and expressing it.

and that it is actually considered demeanig to bring it into such context.

By whom? Western dancers, I think.

I told him that I could not ethically teach because I have worked so hard educating people that it is not associated stripping

This is a good and reasonable thing to say.

What???? Who????

.w.:

Originally Posted by Shimmy_N_Sheik

There is some silly reality show here called 'erotic star', and apparently (though i never saw the episode) one of our most respected Aus. teachers taught the girls some moves! I was shocked to hear she had participated in the show, and then acted as judges at the end of the episode. Like i said i haven't seen the show but it does make me wonder?

mmm would rather not say!

i have a hard time picturing strippers doing this. yeesh when you sleep in all day, then get up and starting calling around looking for your dope dealer before ya know it's time to go work!!! *half kidding*

yes in the old days they did shimmies, pelvis pops, chest shakes. there are oodles of youtubes of this. to see a current burly who dances like this look up kitten deville. meow.

nowadays it would be perceived as "fat" to do that. they still do camel, hip circle like things. the aesthetic is slinky, languid and of course over heated. not wiggly jiggly.

to *me* i think it would be better for a real bder to get involved and who knows somebody might listen than just leave them to their own devices. tina

I have a lot of friends who are strippers, burlesque performers, and pole dancers and I have always had a huge love for old burlesque.

I wouldn't teach a group of strippers if they were going to turn around and market themselves as belly dancers HOWEVER I don't find anything wrong with them using belly dance as a way to learn some sensual movements, like hip circles and undulations, to enrich their routines. Moves like these have been present in strip tease for as long as it has existed. (Lets not forget that the woman who brought belly dance to America was also one of the founding mothers of American strip tease: Little Egypt.)

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be thought of as a stripper. I think its sad that the line between belly dance and stripping is so blurred but I don't believe that teaching a few strippers how to shimmy is making it worse. I have seen countless girls calling themselves authentic belly dancers who look like straight up strippers in the way they dance, act with customers, and do themselves up. I find that much more offensive than a stripper doing an ummi.

Ive completely lost track of where I was going with this... this is a subject that really makes me rant.

I agree with zumarrad of everything she said.

Thanks for the feedback ladies. It was just too much to keep to myself. It's one of those situations you never thought wold happen to you.

FYI: It sounded like he wanted them to create a "belly dancer" routine. I don't mind helping anyone with stage dynamics but if they are going to use the dance in context or out of context and say it's belly dance, then I am not down.

I love burlesque, pole dancing, etc. I consider it another artform that can be tasteful if a dancer is "brought up" that way. Most are just told to get up, shake, wiggle, and take their clothes off.

If thats the case then you reacted the right way. In my opinion at least :3

"Lets not forget that the woman who brought belly dance to America was also one of the founding mothers of American strip tease: Little Egypt"

*bangs head on keyboard* i don't even know where to start here. there was no little egypt at the chicago worlds fair. little egypt did not found strip. the first strippers were ann corio & hinda wasu.

there are website on this go look & get educated. tina

Originally Posted by zumarrad

You know what? I'm going to come out and say it. Belly dance *is* sexual. Of course it's sexual. You should hear my Lebanese supervisor on how sexual it is (and she consider this a very positive thing). You could maybe ask hookers in Egypt why they belly dance. Of course it's sexual. But that's not *all* it is, and *that* is the key issue. It's also, mostly, about life and love and fun and good times and sorrow and pain and just liking music and expressing it.

APPLAUDS.
Thank you. i'm well and sick of pretending belly dance has nothing to do with sex. we're half-clothed and the parts we do cover we cover with sparkles and then we shake them.
doing the coffee table isn't belly dancing, but rather than pretend the dance has nothing to do with sex (eeeeeeek!!!!), let's get a healthier attitude towards sex. it's part of life, and a good part of life.

-pouts-
but she was on the telly!

Originally Posted by Shimmy_N_Sheik

mmm would rather not say!

(PM?)

As Derek Smalls said in Spinal Tap: "What's wrong with being sexy?"

I think being sexy is fine and I think it would be okay to teach belly dance to strippers or grannies or 8 year olds. They will put their own spins on it--the cheap faux-harem outfits are the really stupid part about the belly dancer stereotype. The genie-pony-tail-on-top-of-the-head thing...that makes me nutty.

i'll take harem fantasy over goddess worship. there were harems at least just not what is portrayed the other is just to tenuous. tina

Can I skip both of them?

i don't want either but ya have to admit kitchy harem girl album covers are cool!! tina

Originally Posted by tattood1

i don't want either but ya have to admit kitchy harem girl album covers are cool!! tina

Well, maybe I'll cut Bettie P. some slack, but the rest of 'em are just hacks.

there is a pole-dancer/bellydancer here. heck, i'd teach her; i dont think she ever had any lessons, yet she does gigs as a bellydancer... and she does some mixed pole dance bellydance act with not much bellydancing in it apart from a Bella (!) OVER a still visible tong and a bikini. (and nothing else)
and i'd rather teach her, cause she's going to keep doing it anyway.

I haven't read the whole thread, yet, but I have turned down stuff like that quicker than a NY minute.
I've also kicked a student out of my class when I found out, she told me, eventually, that she was going to do a bellydance routine at the strip club she works at. I didn't know she was a stripper.
Now, I have nothing against strippers, they can strip away
all they want, but I am not going to teach them bellydance. Plenty of other teachers that will.
I don't want to be known as the bellydance teacher to the strippers.

The difference is, IMNSHO, is that Belly Dance is/can be "sexy", but never should be "sexual". Of course, a statement like this invites all kinds of semantic arguments that I pointedly ignore. As Carolynn says, it isn't a Coffee Table (tm) act - but it can be "sexy". Of course, its all in the eye of the beholder - I almost never see sex in Belly Dance because I'm not looking for it, when I do see it I'm offended because the act has gone well into Coffee Table areas. OTOH, I don't purposely project a sexy vibe in my dance as I don't see the dance that way - but by the reactions of some of the audience, they find it very sexy. Whatever.... They're entitled I guess.

big surprise !! why is it "OK" to teach a girl to half ass bd for her quinceanera, or wedding but it's not "ok" to teach somebody who works in the exotic dance industry??? all the while bders themselves are lining up for burlesque lessons???? tina

I've got mixed feelings on this.

I don't want strippers bd'ing in their show. I don't see MED as sexual. I see it as sensual, and putting your cootch in someone's face is a blatant sexuality that in no way, shape or form I want associated with MED. Making a man sit up and take notice? I have no problems with that at all.

Not that I have a problem with strippers, but those I've seen unfortunately had no dance ability. They don't dance. They stick their wares in your face and tease the men for money. Okay, so I admit I haven't spent a lot of time in strip bars, so maybe I'm wrong.

BUT they're going to do it. We know they are. They're going to add it to their shows. If that has to happen, I think the best thing is to at least have them be able to execute their technique properly. If they learn it off videos, they're more apt to shake their hips crudely into oblivion, rather than learn to dance subtly and with poise. If I have to choose... I'd rather the latter.

I agree with Tina. Best to teach them than to leave them to their own defenses. Inevitably, they'll pull a cheapie instructional from the video counter at Blockbuster pull off some horribly ill-executed movements and call it belly dance. They're going to do it no matter what.