Thread: Finding places with Performer License?

So, what is the license that a place needs to have performers (like a when a restaurant has bellydancers) and is that list public? I would like to be able to know which places around me are able to have dancers so I know where to present my services , also what are the costs? If some places don't have it, what are they lookin at having to do to get it? AND THANKS!

of course the requirements and costs vary by geography...
in san diego a cabaret/live entertainment license is approx $1200/year, and its *much* easier to get if the establishment does not have a liquor license. the business submits an application to the proper licensing board of the city/county. it can take a while to go through the process. they may need special permits for amplified music, etc. it all depends on local regulations. good luck finding the gigs :)

In LA it's through the Liquor and Food licensing board. And can be very restrictive.

{{{HUGS}}}

The rules vary from region to region, rates vary from region to region, standard length sets vary.
Joharah, can your teacher/mentor point you in the right direction?

Ha @SamiraShuruk - samira samira samira....*sigh*, that is one of my problems. There is only like 1 main teacher in the entire area and I sort of had a falling out with her several years ago and am STILLL frustrated with her because what she did had such a huge impact on my bellydancing life. She was my teacher and even wanted me to try out for her troupe. I started college, at a school in another part of the state and came back on the weekends to work, so I had trouble figuring out how to manage that. Plus I was, unknowingly at the time, developing fibromyalgia. I also had some trouble adjusting to school. I sent her a VERY carefully and mulled over email to her asking her if I could 'apprentice or something similar' for her troupe, 'help with costumes, go with them on shows' so I could 'stay in the bellydance world' but keep school and work first. She sent me a short, blunt email that she didn't have any positions available and that she encouraged me to try out for the troupe when I had the time. I was mortified. It was really hard for me ask her for that as I am such a shy introvert, but I did. I offered her my free help and was honest with her...and she shot me down. So I went to school, graduated and have been trying to make in on my own since. There is not a large BD community here, just her troupe and thats about it. So I am trying to be a self-starter here and look for places that I can dance at, ones her troupe has not 'claimed'. *whew!

My current teacher is wonderful, but she has not confirmed with me if I'm ready for gigs. I'm not sure if I should even try as competition is tough, though I'm not in a small town.

Thats what I'm sayin Jennah! Sometimes we can't let our teachers or 'elders' have such a big impact on our dancing lives. There arn't enough good teachers out there for sure, plenty of us are stuck with inappropriate mentors. And also, even great mentors can mess up and its OUR lives. Its just hard to do it on our own, especially if it means crossing people we look up to! ,r:;

Originally Posted by JoharaRaqs

Ha @SamiraShuruk - samira samira samira....*sigh*, that is one of my problems. There is only like 1 main teacher in the entire area and I sort of had a falling out with her several years ago and am STILLL frustrated with her because what she did had such a huge impact on my bellydancing life. She was my teacher and even wanted me to try out for her troupe. I started college, at a school in another part of the state and came back on the weekends to work, so I had trouble figuring out how to manage that. Plus I was, unknowingly at the time, developing fibromyalgia. I also had some trouble adjusting to school. I sent her a VERY carefully and mulled over email to her asking her if I could 'apprentice or something similar' for her troupe, 'help with costumes, go with them on shows' so I could 'stay in the bellydance world' but keep school and work first. She sent me a short, blunt email that she didn't have any positions available and that she encouraged me to try out for the troupe when I had the time. I was mortified. It was really hard for me ask her for that as I am such a shy introvert, but I did. I offered her my free help and was honest with her...and she shot me down. So I went to school, graduated and have been trying to make in on my own since. There is not a large BD community here, just her troupe and thats about it. So I am trying to be a self-starter here and look for places that I can dance at, ones her troupe has not 'claimed'. *whew!

I'm not sure what the issue is. She may not have been the most cordial person in email (some people simply are not), but her response is fair and respectable.

Especially if your community is small as it was in 2005 (I was there in East Lansing for that summer), you probably make sure you're 100% okay with your former teacher reading these posts. People do lurk on Bhuz, check out others' profiles, etc.

Originally Posted by JoharaRaqs

Ha @SamiraShuruk - samira samira samira....*sigh*, that is one of my problems. There is only like 1 main teacher in the entire area and I sort of had a falling out with her several years ago and am STILLL frustrated with her because what she did had such a huge impact on my bellydancing life. She was my teacher and even wanted me to try out for her troupe. I started college, at a school in another part of the state and came back on the weekends to work, so I had trouble figuring out how to manage that. Plus I was, unknowingly at the time, developing fibromyalgia. I also had some trouble adjusting to school. I sent her a VERY carefully and mulled over email to her asking her if I could 'apprentice or something similar' for her troupe, 'help with costumes, go with them on shows' so I could 'stay in the bellydance world' but keep school and work first. She sent me a short, blunt email that she didn't have any positions available and that she encouraged me to try out for the troupe when I had the time. I was mortified. It was really hard for me ask her for that as I am such a shy introvert, but I did. I offered her my free help and was honest with her...and she shot me down. So I went to school, graduated and have been trying to make in on my own since. There is not a large BD community here, just her troupe and thats about it. So I am trying to be a self-starter here and look for places that I can dance at, ones her troupe has not 'claimed'. *whew!

I fail to see what horrible thing your former teacher did. She was looking for troupe members but didn't want/need an extra person helping with costumes and things. She may have felt that, if you haven't run a troupe or been part of a troupe, you might have just been an added responsibility for her (and one who might learn all the choreographies for free while doing it) and not enough of an actual help. She may have had many other reasons to say "No, but when you have more time please try out for the troupe."

Originally Posted by indigostars

I'm not sure what the issue is. She may not have been the most cordial person in email (some people simply are not), but her response is fair and respectable.

Especially if your community is small as it was in 2005 (I was there in East Lansing for that summer), you probably make sure you're 100% okay with your former teacher reading these posts. People do lurk on Bhuz, check out others' profiles, etc.

Totally agree with this post. I'd also suggest this to the original poster, as smooth moving on from a personality conflict or mis-read situation probably isn't helped by publicly slagging someone's boyfriend as ugly and untrustworthy(even if they deserve it) or saying in one sentence that you'd never disrespect the teacher but in the other that you are more fit than them. Such comments reflect poorly on one's professional demeanor and are not part of moving on, they're about getting a few kicks in.

Originally Posted by JoharaRaqs

Ha @SamiraShuruk - samira samira samira....*sigh*, that is one of my problems. There is only like 1 main teacher in the entire area and I sort of had a falling out with her several years ago and am STILLL frustrated with her because what she did had such a huge impact on my bellydancing life. She was my teacher and even wanted me to try out for her troupe. I started college, at a school in another part of the state and came back on the weekends to work, so I had trouble figuring out how to manage that. Plus I was, unknowingly at the time, developing fibromyalgia. I also had some trouble adjusting to school. I sent her a VERY carefully and mulled over email to her asking her if I could 'apprentice or something similar' for her troupe, 'help with costumes, go with them on shows' so I could 'stay in the bellydance world' but keep school and work first. She sent me a short, blunt email that she didn't have any positions available and that she encouraged me to try out for the troupe when I had the time. I was mortified. It was really hard for me ask her for that as I am such a shy introvert, but I did. I offered her my free help and was honest with her...and she shot me down. So I went to school, graduated and have been trying to make in on my own since. There is not a large BD community here, just her troupe and thats about it. So I am trying to be a self-starter here and look for places that I can dance at, ones her troupe has not 'claimed'. *whew!

I'm a student troupe director and I can tell you I would've done exactly the same thing she did. And I can't see anything wrong with that.

I can't afford to give away my hard work for free.

She offered you an audition. You weren't committed to it. You didn't have the money. So she told you to audition later-which was generous in my opinion.

I wouldn't assume that she didn't agonize over her response. Perhaps she did. I've often agonized over emails that were just a few sentences long.

Maybe you should consider asking for an audition with her now. It seems like you're looking for guidance and she has some to offer.

No, I'm not more fit than my teachers, just more fit than a former classmate.

I have no idea that you would need to pay a fee to audition to become a troupe member. I just thought whoever the troupe director just chooses or other classmates get along just form a troupe.

We danced for free at the New Year Eve's party at the restaurant and we looked professional. I thought I was performing just for my teacher, until I found out she was charging each customer $90 for the buffet meal and entertainment and the restaurant was almost full to capacity. I really think she earned some profit for 4 free dancers that night. I now realize that dancing at a restaurant for free is frowned upon in the belly dance community.

Originally Posted by Jennah

No, I'm not more fit than my teachers, just more fit than a former classmate.

I have no idea that you would need to pay a fee to audition to become a troupe member. I just thought whoever the troupe director just chooses or other classmates get along just form a troupe.
.

I don't think anyone said you'd have to pay a fee to be in a troupe....but being in a troupe does involve a commitment of time and money.

It strikes me that a student offering "free help" would benefit from a teacher taking them up on the offer, as they'd be gaining much of the troupe experience without the same time/money commitment to costumes/practice/classes/schedules/so on...but I don't feel any teacher should be oblidged to say yes to such an offer.

Originally Posted by Jennah

We danced for free at the New Year Eve's party at the restaurant and we looked professional. I thought I was performing just for my teacher, until I found out she was charging each customer $90 for the buffet meal and entertainment and the restaurant was almost full to capacity. I really think she earned some profit for 4 free dancers that night. I now realize that dancing at a restaurant for free is frowned upon in the belly dance community.

That is unprofessional and ethically icky.

And, still, so is airing your teacher's boyfriend issues and telling us you have no interest in a whole ethnicity of men. It's easy to google info on dancers in your area. You might not want to be identified with some of your comments....they may cause even more problems for you if your scene is so small, unless you're just burning bridges now.

i regularly have students as apprentices, that accompany me to gigs, help out at events, sometimes dance with me. those i offer this too, are all students that have been dancing with me for a while, take my classes, are part of the troupe. if they do this regularly i tend to pay them a little for their help (or barter).

If someone new approached me asking to be my apprentice, my answer, in email would probably be
- referring her to my regular weekly
- referring her to private classes with me or another teacher
- telling her i am not able to promise her anything really. but that after a few terms in my regular classes, she can audition for the troupe.

I stand by everything I say and strongly and completely stand on the opposite side of where most of the posters here stand. ,r:;,r:;,r:;
I very much hope to not need the help of dancers with your mentality!! ..c:: It looks like I wouldn't get it
Also, I put everything I said with EXCESSIVE niceness a few YEARS after the fact, so imagine how I would have put it in the moment
Some people...

Originally Posted by JoharaRaqs

I stand by everything I say and strongly and completely stand on the opposite side of where most of the posters here stand. ,r:;,r:;,r:;
I very much hope to not need the help of dancers with your mentality!! ..c:: It looks like I wouldn't get it
Also, I put everything I said with EXCESSIVE niceness a few YEARS after the fact, so imagine how I would have put it in the moment
Some people...

I just read this thread and am completely confused. (suspecting it is in part because some posts have been edited after they've been replied to).

Johara, I'm confused as to who the reply above is directed towards. The posters in this thread have been polite and with the intent of helping you, even if you disagree with their opinions. Obviously, we don't know the details of your situation, only what you have written.

And based on what you have written, I'm also confused about exactly what your teacher did that was so egregiously wrong. It seems to me that you took great offense where none was meant.

It can be alot of work to run a troupe, and sometimes it is a thankless job. And sometimes volunteer helpers, eager though they may be, require alot of effort in supervision and training. It is likely that your teacher just didn't have the time or energy to bring another person into the mix who wasn't going to be around on a regular basis and who was dealing with multiple life stresses (finishing school, hectic work schedule, fibromyalgia). Moreover, she invited you to come back when your schedule allowed you more commitment; this indicates that she valued you as a dancer and potential troupe member. If she had just decided she didn't like you, she wouldn't have invited you to try out at a later time.

But really, given how you reacted to your teacher, and how you have reacted in this thread, my main thought is that you will not like restaurant gigs very much. You have have a very thick skin, you have to be able/willing to communicate with people, and you have to to be able to get along with people (including people who are not 100% "nice"). If you think what your teacher did constituted "shooting you down", I predict that interactions with venue owners, other dancers, critical audience members, etc. will not go well.

Originally Posted by JoharaRaqs

Thats what I'm sayin Jennah! Sometimes we can't let our teachers or 'elders' have such a big impact on our dancing lives. There arn't enough good teachers out there for sure, plenty of us are stuck with inappropriate mentors. And also, even great mentors can mess up and its OUR lives. Its just hard to do it on our own, especially if it means crossing people we look up to! ,r:;

There are bad eggs everywhere, but contrary to what you seem to believe, dance instructors and troupe directors are not egotistical maniacs who are out to get you.

If you are Teacher's student, how you dance and behave reflects on her. If Teacher is strict, it is because she cares about your reputation, and ultimately hers.

The real danger comes from students who are not ready to perform for the public and give the rest of us a bad name.

Originally Posted by JoharaRaqs

... And also, even great mentors can mess up and its OUR lives. Its just hard to do it on our own, especially if it means crossing people we look up to! ,r:;

Originally Posted by SandraDances

There are bad eggs everywhere, but contrary to what you seem to believe, dance instructors and troupe directors are not egotistical maniacs who are out to get you.
If you are Teacher's student, how you dance and behave reflects on her. If Teacher is strict, it is because she cares about your reputation, and ultimately hers.
The real danger comes from students who are not ready to perform for the public and give the rest of us a bad name.

Nicely put Sandra.
Most teachers DO mean well.
If you feel they are not in abundance in your area and you just have to get out there try this:
A really useful guideline is something Artemis teaches: "if you can't get and keep gigs at the going rate, you are not ready to be out there."
How is this useful?
The paying customers let you know if you're "worth" what is a professional rate for your area. Research the rates. Know that weekly/regular venues are different from party rates, know standard length sets in your area etc. Know what other entertainers get in your area as well.
"Standard rate" is "minimum" for your area, don't go below that just to gain experience. As you gain experience you will be able to charge *more*.
Rest assured, experienced dancers charge MORE than the "standard" rate (most do anyway)- leaving blossoming professionals the room to comfortably start at the "standard."
If you're not getting and keeping regular gigs, or getting parties and referrals from those parties (all within reason for your regional market of course) - then the market itself is telling you that you need to up your game in order to be out there as a professional.

Did I really miss something or did the first post of this thread get hi-jacked? Wasnt it started with what licenses or permits places needs for entertainmemt?
Is my computer skipping or misbehaving?

Sorry, I posted under Davids log in, I meant to post from Patrisha's log in . We share a computer. Question still goes.'Patrisha

Originally Posted by david

Did I really miss something or did the first post of this thread get hi-jacked? Wasnt it started with what licenses or permits places needs for entertainmemt?
Is my computer skipping or misbehaving?

Not really. I think that her question was answered (it varies from place to place). Read post #5. That is the original poster's explanation of why she doesn't have a teacher/mentor to confer with RE performing venues.