Thread: meeting clients - a bit waffly

Hi

This Lilya's thread on last minute bookings reminded me of this situation I had a few months back (during the 'summer of cancellations'). I got home one thurs or fri night to find email enquiring about a WEDDING the following Tuesday. I emailed back with my phone number and a quote etc saying that I would be going out but would be back by 7 (gave myself plenty of time). I got back from the gym at 6 to find the guy already ringing and another 2 emails plus a message from my teaching partner saying this guy had phoned her to get hold of me. Because I hadn't answered his email within, like, 2 minutes.

Anyway, blah blah blah, it was for a pakistani/nowegian wedding or something, so they wanted lots of 'ethnicy' dance and singing etc, it sounded like a good gig. The guy seemed annoyed I couldn't provide an arabic singer with what 4? days notice (why are people surprised we don't have a bajillion arabic musicians in SCOTLAND??!!) but pressed on. He was really pressuring me to meet him for a chat at the weekend. It made me feel awkward. I do understand its his wedding and he wants to see what he's getting on his special day - but I have a website with pictures and video clips (we all know appearance is somewhat important to our clients much as we hate it). Also, if this was arranged months in advance I probably would consider meeting with him (and hopefully fiancé) to discuss it but when he's phoning me 4-5 days before I found it a bit rude to expect me to rearrange me weekend (UNPAID!) around him!!!

Anyway, he seems surprised and sort of implied I was being unprofessional by not meeting all clients to discuss the gig. I ventured the Monday evening before the weeding, this was too last minute for him. I then said, well how about Saturday afternoon - turned out he wouldn't even be arriving in Edinburgh until sometime sat pm so I don't know when exactly he was planning - I was probably just meant to wait by my phone until he summoned me!!! Anyway I left it at well, email me when you get to Edinburgh. When we got off the phone I realised he had randomly got my email off gumtree but maybe hadn't found my website (who knows how this happens - I come top when you google belly dancer Edinburgh) so I emailed him with my website address with links to my video clips etc.

Unsurprisingly I didn't hear from him until Monday when he just emailed me to say he was sorry he wanted to cancel his 'booking' (umm . . You had no booking anyway).

Anyway this roundabout waffle was to say - how normal is it to meet your clients beforehand? I mean I understand if it like a massive gig like Artemisia doing or something - of course you do? But run of the mill gigs? Opinions?

Z

Opinion (as requested) :

I wouldn't find it that usual to meet a client beforehand, unless they specifically requested it. Although *I* would feel that I could usually handle all the arrangements via email / phone, I understand that (especially for weddings) some people might want to meet face to face. I would only agree to this if an actual booking had been made, and a deposit paid!!

D

Originally Posted by zafirah

Hi



Anyway, blah blah blah, it was for a pakistani/nowegian wedding or something, so they wanted lots of 'ethnicy' dance and singing etc, it sounded like a good gig. The guy seemed annoyed I couldn't provide an arabic singer with what 4? days notice (why are people surprised we don't have a bajillion arabic musicians in SCOTLAND??!!) but pressed on. He was really pressuring me to meet him for a chat at the weekend. It made me feel awkward. I do understand its his wedding and he wants to see what he's getting on his special day - but I have a website with pictures and video clips (we all know appearance is somewhat important to our clients much as we hate it). Also, if this was arranged months in advance I probably would consider meeting with him (and hopefully fiancé) to discuss it but when he's phoning me 4-5 days before I found it a bit rude to expect me to rearrange me weekend (UNPAID!) around him!!!

Anyway, he seems surprised and sort of implied I was being unprofessional by not meeting all clients to discuss the gig. I ventured the Monday evening before the weeding, this was too last minute for him. I then said, well how about Saturday afternoon - turned out he wouldn't even be arriving in Edinburgh until sometime sat pm so I don't know when exactly he was planning - I was probably just meant to wait by my phone until he summoned me!!! Anyway I left it at well, email me when you get to Edinburgh. When we got off the phone I realised he had randomly got my email off gumtree but maybe hadn't found my website (who knows how this happens - I come top when you google belly dancer Edinburgh) so I emailed him with my website address with links to my video clips etc.

Unsurprisingly I didn't hear from him until Monday when he just emailed me to say he was sorry he wanted to cancel his 'booking' (umm . . You had no booking anyway).

Anyway this roundabout waffle was to say - how normal is it to meet your clients beforehand? I mean I understand if it like a massive gig like Artemisia doing or something - of course you do? But run of the mill gigs? Opinions?

Z

All of this sounded dodgy. I wouldn't have touched him with a bargepole. For a start, he was way too picky and demanding. I've had so called clients like this, and after being stung several times, you get a feel for it. I'm not sure what their game is, I've even sometimes suspected I've been set up, but when they behave like this, you stop them, and tell exactly how it is. YOU call the shots. Not them. You tell them your fee, what you do for that fee, and that's it. If they don't want you, let 'em look elsewhere. Let someone else get the grief. In my experience, the more you bend over backwards for these people, the harder you'll fall.
I guess you'll know next time, huh?

another opinion...as requested:

if it is a big event, i will meet with the party planner / event coordinator/ bride/etc. ahead of time.

i have met with lots of brides before performing at their weddings. it is very normal for them to want to make sure the type of dancer/performance style will fit their party and it makes them feel better when they meet the dancer b/c then they can relax re: that we will be professional and not upstage them on their big day.

the key to the meeting [of course] is "ahead of time". so we can work it out to the convenience of both our schedules. it must be brief and not totally out of the way, or i will tack on a travel fee.

perhaps this guy was a "nervous bride." sounds a bit disorganized for a wedding, but i guess you never know.

i've said it before in other threads but here it is again:
imo: when potential clients are weird/cheap/nasty/rude/etc before the gig, it is best to decline the job because it will just be unpleasant doing business with them and is never worth the time and effort put out by the dancer.

back when i had a troupe, we called this type of gig "a waste of makeup" :)

Originally Posted by kharis_UK

All of this sounded dodgy. I wouldn't have touched him with a bargepole. For a start, he was way too picky and demanding. I've had so called clients like this, and after being stung several times, you get a feel for it. I'm not sure what their game is, I've even sometimes suspected I've been set up, but when they behave like this, you stop them, and tell exactly how it is. YOU call the shots. Not them. You tell them your fee, what you do for that fee, and that's it. If they don't want you, let 'em look elsewhere. Let someone else get the grief. In my experience, the more you bend over backwards for these people, the harder you'll fall.
I guess you'll know next time, huh?

Yeah, I just didn't really know what to say on the spot on the phone - its why I try and do most of my communication by email.

I don't think he was 'dodgy' just a pain in the a$$ 'nervous bride'

So what's the best polite answer to 'so you don't don't usually bother meeting with your clients then?'

Z

Originally Posted by zafirah

Yeah, I just didn't really know what to say on the spot on the phone - its why I try and do most of my communication by email.

I don't think he was 'dodgy' just a pain in the a$$ 'nervous bride'

So what's the best polite answer to 'so you don't don't usually bother meeting with your clients then?'

Z

maybe:
"i usually do, when time permits [and they are in the city/country!]. however your event is only X days away and i am booked solid until then."

Originally Posted by zafirah

Yeah, I just didn't really know what to say on the spot on the phone - its why I try and do most of my communication by email.

I don't think he was 'dodgy' just a pain in the a$$ 'nervous bride'

So what's the best polite answer to 'so you don't don't usually bother meeting with your clients then?'

Z

I've done several pakistani weddings...and each one was fraught because there was always a divided camp between who wanted a dancer and those who didn't. Each time it caused strife. It's my guess this guy was toying with the idea, and then bottled it, not because of nerves but because he was either told at the last moment not to, or someone got wind of it from the female camp and scuppered his plans. I had one groom book two dancers, and the row that ensued was embarrassing. He was told off in public for daring to hire such trash. We had to dance to a sea of disapproving faces, mostly female, despite the fact we were tasteful, elegant and reasonably covered. I am now very wary of Pakistani weddings. It is not part of their culture, and they do not view it in the way that Middle Eastern muslims do. His demands to meet you were probably motivated by a desire to make sure you looked OK rather than from professional or financial considerations.

Originally Posted by zafirah

So what's the best polite answer to 'so you don't don't usually bother meeting with your clients then?'

Z

if they insist on meeting, fine. Meet them, but insist on half your fee up front. No more liaisons, discussions etc, until they pay. if they genuinely want to hire you they'll pay it.

I've only twice met with a client ahead of time. In one case, she requested it, she had been very pleasant to deal with so far, and her location was convenient for me. (The gig was a positive experience, by the way.)

In the other case, it was my first performance at the clothing-optional resort, and I thought it might be wise to, uh, "expose" myself to the environment in advance so that I would be used to the, uh, "scenery" before the day of the actual performance.

I wouldn't make advance meetings a standard practice, but I'll consider making a rare exception now and then. In your situation, I probably would have refused.

I'll do advance meetings if the client requests it and there's advance notice. The only time anyone seems to request it is when it's a wedding. Other times, most details can be handled over the phone and email.

It's rare that a meeting is necessary. Those times when someone DOES want to meet I usually just encourage them to show up at a regular gig and we can talk there.
ONE time I DID meet with a client- but it was a gig with very special requirements (not to mention good pay).
If someone wants to meet me, they would be paying extra for my time.

I agree, an advance meeting is usually not necessary.
I have met once with a Dj (he hired me for a big New Years Eve party) during this meeting he also paid me in advance.
I also had meetings with restaurant owners who hired / offered me regular gigs - to see the location, and to go over any details.

I think big companies might be more interested in meeting, and I would go with it if I feel that it is necessary, convenient, and understandable.

However just a few days ago someone wanted me to go to their house so his wife can see what kind of dance I do and what kind of person I am (??). I told them to come see my performance this weekend, I have a few to choose from, and that would explain how I dance - I couldn't explain it in words anyways, and I do not audition.
He was nice, but kept insisting. Told him I'm sorry I would never meet with a client at their house in advance, and I would never demonstrate a dance for them. Look at my website if they want to have a certain look, and/or come see me dance.
Either hire me or not.

I have met with clients twice beforehand. Both times at their request. Once was for a wedding with a nervous but otherwise sweetheart of a bride, and the other time was a wife organizing a big party for her husband's birthday/retirement.

I didn't consider the requests unusual, and I don't mind meeting beforehand. I considered it part of good business relations to put their minds at ease if they want to meet in person who they are hiring for their big day.

Of course, it's a different story if they seem dodgy or unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Asra*

I have met with clients twice beforehand. Both times at their request. Once was for a wedding with a nervous but otherwise sweetheart of a bride, and the other time was a wife organizing a big party for her husband's birthday/retirement.

I didn't consider the requests unusual, and I don't mind meeting beforehand. I considered it part of good business relations to put their minds at ease if they want to meet in person who they are hiring for their big day.

Of course, it's a different story if they seem dodgy or unreasonable.

It's when they get abnormally 'picky' that you have to be on guard. There is a demanding tone to their conversation...as though they are questioning your integrity. It's very rude. If a dancer has a website, then they can go there and check her physical appearance out etc.

The one time I had a client insist that we meet in advance, I wound up losing the gig to undercutters in the end. I wound up being really ticked that I had spent over an hour of my valuable time going over all the details with them, all for nothing.