Thread: How do I respond back? Quote question

I received a inquiry through my website for a wedding about an hour away from me. They're looking for a belly dancer for a half hour. I quoted $365 as my start and said it depends what she is looking for. I gave her a package for that price and if she wanted props that it would be more money and gave prices for those. She came back and said her budget is $175 and that she would like me for a half hour and some Turkish music since the groom is Turkish. That is less than half my quote!!! Yeaaaa, not going to undercut myself. I kinda laughed when I saw the email response this morning. But how do I response back to this?

Well i would very kindly let her know that that is less than half of my starting price and i would then proceed to tell her the lowest price i could give her (maybe 10 minutes for 175) and what she would get for that price. I would then tell her the benefits of what she would get for the full quote i originally gave her and tell her i thank her for her inquiry if she is willing to move forward give me a call.

Originally Posted by Khuzama

Well i would very kindly let her know that that is less than half of my starting price and i would then proceed to tell her the lowest price i could give her (maybe 10 minutes for 175) and what she would get for that price. I would then tell her the benefits of what she would get for the full quote i originally gave her and tell her i thank her for her inquiry if she is willing to move forward give me a call.

I would do the same. Unless you don't have a 10 min $175.00 option, then just leave that out. Thank her for contacting you and let her know if she ever needs the type of show that you do, to give you a call.

Thanks guys! Excellent idea on the 10 minute show for $175. I will respond back offering that.

Your transport overhead is the same for both long and short versions of gig. We now charge $.75/mile for long commutes to gig. I think the IRS allowance is currently 50 cents per mile for business miles driven, so our $.75 includes a bit for the time spent driving. If you DON'T charge for mileage then your real earnings drop to $125 for the gig.

Oh good point Maurazebra!

Send her a new quote for those gig specifications, and say, "As a professional entertainer, I do not negotiate prices below the standard rates for non-charity events. I regret any inconvenience this may cause you."

"The best price I can offer you is $365 (or $325, or whatever your very best price might be).

My actual costs (costuming, music, gas) and time to reach your event (two hours of drive time) don't leave me much room to negotiate price with you. Perhaps you'll be able to find a dancer closer to you who can come closer to your price? Be cautious, though, very few well-trained and experienced performers will do a wedding show for so little.

If you decide to make room in your budget for me, please let me know at your earliest convenience so I can reserve that date for you. Congratulations on your marriage, whatever you decide, and good luck to you both!"

Originally Posted by maurazebra

Your transport overhead is the same for both long and short versions of gig. We now charge $.75/mile for long commutes to gig. I think the IRS allowance is currently 50 cents per mile for business miles driven, so our $.75 includes a bit for the time spent driving. If you DON'T charge for mileage then your real earnings drop to $125 for the gig.

I charge $1.00 per mile travel time outside a radius of 5 mi past my city limits.

As a bride-to-be myself currently sending out some of those budget-restricted emails, I can imagine she may really appreciate you offering an alternative that fits her budget! Or some suggestions on closer dancers that don't have the travel costs. She may just be trying to screw you down, but you never know, being the most helpful supplier she contacts may land you the job ( possibly at a more realistic budget than she currently has).

Just out if interest, and with no judgement intended, why do you charge extra for props? To my mind, they're part and parcel of a normal bellydance show, rather than a costly extra.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

As a bride-to-be myself currently sending out some of those budget-restricted emails, I can imagine she may really appreciate you offering an alternative that fits her budget! Or some suggestions on closer dancers that don't have the travel costs. She may just be trying to screw you down, but you never know, being the most helpful supplier she contacts may land you the job ( possibly at a more realistic budget than she currently has).

Just out if interest, and with no judgement intended, why do you charge extra for props? To my mind, they're part and parcel of a normal bellydance show, rather than a costly extra.

Because I don't always do tray or sword or cane. Plus it takes extra training to do that well, so I include that in the cost. Most of the time I do a traditional show, so I consider that extra.

Originally Posted by KDizzle

Because I don't always do tray or sword or cane. Plus it takes extra training to do that well, so I include that in the cost. Most of the time I do a traditional show, so I consider that extra.

That's interesting, I hadn't thought of it like that. I would have considered those abilities to be a reason why I could charge a high rate for my overall fabulousness, rather than an add-on. I would be concerned that the varied rates would force the client to decide what props they want, when I'm the best person to do that. But that's not to say that I'm right and you're wrong. Slight thread hijack, but what do other people do re prop surcharges?

i make a ton of tips at a wedding...did she guarantee tips? weddings do have budgets...sigh. you guys get to charge more than we do, we would price ourselves out of a job.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

That's interesting, I hadn't thought of it like that. I would have considered those abilities to be a reason why I could charge a high rate for my overall fabulousness, rather than an add-on. I would be concerned that the varied rates would force the client to decide what props they want, when I'm the best person to do that. But that's not to say that I'm right and you're wrong. Slight thread hijack, but what do other people do re prop surcharges?

For private parties/events: I always include veil and finger cymbals at no cost to the client, and may perform with other props for the show at my discretion, but for special requests by the client for sword, multiple veil, wings, fan veils, candle tray, shamadan, cane, etc. I usually charge an extra fee to cover transport, training, and additional planning. I also generally charge a fee if I have to provide the sound system. None of these are huge fees, but I have found that it helps cut down on the "impulse buy" of clients asking for a 10 minute show with every prop under the sun. By letting them know that the props are available and can be requested for an additional fee, they are usually more realistic and careful in the planning process. [I also add a fee for multiple costume changes beyond what I consider standard for the same reason.]

I charge extra for fire! It requires extra rehearsal time and supplies (fully charged extinguisher always goes with me) plus the toting-around factor is huge.

I didn't raise my overall rate when I bought a shamadan, I don't make my bellygram customers pay extra because I can do it, I charge only the customers who want it.

Sword and veil are included in my pricing. Zills.... well, people might be willing to pay me NOT to play them!

I've never been tipped at a wedding. I think it may depend on whether most of the guests are immigrants or 2nd/3rd generation Americans?

I think it is standard to include veil and cymbals as options in the package at no additional cost, but props that require more work to lug around and prepare get the extra charge. Sometimes I suspect dancers do it to discourage customers from asking for them because they're a hassle and they may not even be feasible for all locations and crowds once you get to the gig.

I've been tipped at a wedding, but those tips are usually for the bride and groom, not me.

As far as how to respond, I would tell her that the lowest I could do was $200 for a 10 minute show (she told you her budget was $175 but i am sure she left a little room for negotiation). Give her a lower priced option, but don't sell yourself short either.

i usually come out of a wedding with a few hundred dollars..but you are right, 95% of my clients are ethnic.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I think it is standard to include veil and cymbals as options in the package at no additional cost, but props that require more work to lug around and prepare get the extra charge. Sometimes I suspect dancers do it to discourage customers from asking for them because they're a hassle and they may not even be feasible for all locations and crowds once you get to the gig.

I simply charge a higher rate than most, add on for mileage and decide what prop/props are a best fit. Sometimes they request something specific, of course. Shamadan is more (The FOH charge (Fire On my Head)), weddings are more.
From my point of view I WANT to do the right show for them. My rate is my rate (extra already charged)- if sword will make them happy- THAT will also make ME happy and will make my job easier.
I DON'T go below my minimum, even for a much shorter show. Most of my time is in 1) my previous education/experience and 2) prep time for that gig 2) travel time for that gig (which IS separate from mileage). So, if I've got an hour to get ready and 45 minutes driving each way... a bit of extra time allowed plus wait around time plus a 20-25 minute show - that's at least three hours. Am I going to charge half my rate because I'm saving 10 minutes out of three plus hours? Business wise this just wouldn't make sense.

Great advise given and interesting discussion.

I charge a minimum of €175 for a standard show, which is 15 minutes max, so it doesn't matter if they just want me to dance for 2 or so minutes. Included is veil, wings and/or sagat (I don't do sword). For shamadan I charge extra, as for live percussion obviously. And ofcourse mileage and VAT are on top of this.

In a case like KDizzle's, I usually send this sort of reply:

...I understand that hiring an act can be quite expense, especially for a small (private) party. To increase understanding of this common issue, I'd like to take this opportunity to explain you why professional entertainers charge the way they do.

A professional (dance)artist should earn his total income with its performances (shows & workshops).

As an (dance)artist you invest a lot of time and money, both before and during your career, to perform on a professional level.
This includes attending (international) courses and masterclasses, making and studying choreographies, purchasing original audio and video material, purchasing professional costuming, attributes and make-up, personal care, promotional costs like website, business cards, flyers etc., various insurances like health insurance, liability insurance, incapacity insurance, pension etc.

In addition, as a (dance)artist you often can not work fulltime, as most shows & workshops will be in the weekends. So during the week you do your dance training, administration etc. This is obviously calculated in the artist rates.

Unfortunately most (dance)artists still do not make ends meet. This forces them to take up a 'normal' job due to which they can invest less time in their training etc. and therefore in their professionalism.

Hopefully this helps you to understand why a professional entertainer charges a fair rate. There are some performers that do charge a low(er) rate, but please be cautious as there are no skilled professional artists who will perform for so little.

Quality and professionalism do cost a bit more, but that way you're sure to get what you should!
...

B

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

I simply charge a higher rate than most, add on for mileage and decide what prop/props are a best fit. Sometimes they request something specific, of course. Shamadan is more (The FOH charge (Fire On my Head)), weddings are more.
From my point of view I WANT to do the right show for them. My rate is my rate (extra already charged)- if sword will make them happy- THAT will also make ME happy and will make my job easier.
I DON'T go below my minimum, even for a much shorter show. Most of my time is in 1) my previous education/experience and 2) prep time for that gig 2) travel time for that gig (which IS separate from mileage). So, if I've got an hour to get ready and 45 minutes driving each way... a bit of extra time allowed plus wait around time plus a 20-25 minute show - that's at least three hours. Am I going to charge half my rate because I'm saving 10 minutes out of three plus hours? Business wise this just wouldn't make sense.

I wouldn't suggest going below your minimum, but don't you offer different length shows for different prices? For me, I offer 10, 20 and 30 minute shows. The 10 minute show starts at $200. So, if someone wanted 30 minutes, but they didn't want to pay for it, I would offer them my most inexpensive show (which happens to be my shortest) and see if they took it. I'm not suggesting going below what you would normally charge for a shorter show, but I think most of us increase our price as the show length increases, right?

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

I wouldn't suggest going below your minimum, but don't you offer different length shows for different prices? For me, I offer 10, 20 and 30 minute shows. The 10 minute show starts at $200. So, if someone wanted 30 minutes, but they didn't want to pay for it, I would offer them my most inexpensive show (which happens to be my shortest) and see if they took it. I'm not suggesting going below what you would normally charge for a shorter show, but I think most of us increase our price as the show length increases, right?

Well, yes, sort of.
In our region, the standard rate is $200 for a 20-25 minute show. There ARE gals around who charge less; in the $150-$175 range.
My minimum rate is $275 for anything up to 25 minutes, with typical being around 18-22. But if someone wants only 10 minutes, the rate is still $275. I'm only saving 10 minutes out of three or so hours, as I said above. $275 makes it still worth it for me. I find a lot of clients automatically tip rounding it up to $300 (above and beyond tips from guests). It's a number that works for me. Weddings are more. Mileage is more etc.

If someone wants 30 minutes, they'll be paying a good bit more, partially because 20-25 is the ideal time for most audiences in one sitting (if they're happy, I'm happy factor), partially because between 23 and 30 minutes I'd be sweating like CRAZY (the discomfort and grossness factor) and partially because if they wanted 40 minutes I'd say "well, that would be two separate shows" and get almost double (happily skipping to the bank factor).

I also charge by the type/length of gig.

My lowest fee starts at $150 for up to 10 minutes (bellygram)

Up to 15 minutes (with about 3 minutes added on for group dancing, if they want to do it) starts at $200

Up to 20 minutes (with a few minutes added on for dancing, as above) starts at $250

Weddings are at least 120% of my regular fee for any length of show.

As to how to word a response, I would do as many other posters have done, offer the bride a shorter show for less money. For me, that would translate into a minimum of $180 for 10 minutes. I'd probably quote $200, so as to have a bit of wiggle-room for negotiating.

However, if you don't do gigs for under a certain amount (say $250) regardless of the length of the show, then quote your minimum for the greatest amount of time the client can get.

I'd also let the bride know, as Lauren mentioned, about looking into dancers closer to her, which might decrease the fee. I also like the idea of "warning" the bride about low-ball pricing from any dancer.

And always offer best wishes to the bride and her groom, regardless of what they decide -- but you already know that!

Deborah

The thing is, you're spending at least an hour of prep time (burning the CD, makeup & lashes & costume) plus 2 hours of drive time (and gas)

If you do a 30 minute gig, thats 3 hours and 30 minutes.

If you do a 10 minute gig, that's 3 hours and 10 minutes.

I can't see taking 1/3 or more off the price for that reduction.

Not to mention the waiting-around-to-perform time and the waiting-around-to-be-paid time after you dance. In my experience, both of those increase if they're paying you less. If they think of you as a major expense, they treat you better.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The thing is, you're spending at least an hour of prep time (burning the CD, makeup & lashes & costume) plus 2 hours of drive time (and gas)

If you do a 30 minute gig, thats 3 hours and 30 minutes.

If you do a 10 minute gig, that's 3 hours and 10 minutes.

I can't see taking 1/3 or more off the price for that reduction.

Not to mention the waiting-around-to-perform time and the waiting-around-to-be-paid time after you dance. In my experience, both of those increase if they're paying you less. If they think of you as a major expense, they treat you better.

Ahhh. You put it much more succinctly than I. Thanks Lauren.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I'd also let the bride know, as Lauren mentioned, about looking into dancers closer to her, which might decrease the fee. I also like the idea of "warning" the bride about low-ball pricing from any dancer.

i agree, but also be careful that it comes across as a concern for their event/experience rather than coming across as indignant or as a lecture.
for me with props: veil is standard, i don't do zills in public yet, and for balancing props (sword, fire/candle tray) i only offer them for the longer show, which they're included with.

Originally Posted by raqFariha

i agree, but also be careful that it comes across as a concern for their event/experience rather than coming across as indignant or as a lecture.

Absolutely! Lauren's phrasing was very short and sweet.

Deborah

Ok I sent an email suggesting a 10 minute show for 200. I worded it as suggested. So let's see what happens. Thanks so much for all the advice.

Quote: Send her a new quote for those gig specifications, and say, "As a professional entertainer, I do not negotiate prices below the standard rates for non-charity events. I regret any inconvenience this may cause you."

and ...

Quote:"The best price I can offer you is $365 (or $325, or whatever your very best price might be).

My actual costs (costuming, music, gas) and time to reach your event (two hours of drive time) don't leave me much room to negotiate price with you. Perhaps you'll be able to find a dancer closer to you who can come closer to your price? Be cautious, though, very few well-trained and experienced performers will do a wedding show for so little.

If you decide to make room in your budget for me, please let me know at your earliest convenience so I can reserve that date for you. Congratulations on your marriage, whatever you decide, and good luck to you both!"


These are great!

Something to think about: we raised our wedding prices to 150% of party prices because weddings usually end up being so much extra work. The customer often wants to control every aspect of the presentation, is seriously overbudget and attempting to cut costs, and has too many family and friends telling her that your bid is just a starting point for negotiations.