Thread: Rakkasah ethics?

I have no idea if this is true or not, but am asking people who might know. There is a thread on tribe, in the biz of bellydance tribe where it's been rumored that there is a blacklist for Rakkasah if the vendors or performers participate in a nearby festival that weekend (or on or about that weekend).

Does anyone know if this is real? If it is real, is it ethical? If it's not real, and people can say that they know this isn't real, maybe the organizers at Rakkasah can be alerted?

i read that too."tribal smackdown", or something..sounds like 2 different pots of tea, screw the cups, .hmmmm i do have someone to ask!
i shall return!

kina, i have been told, that a vender signes something stating you will stay a certain amount of hours, and that packing up early, to go to the "smackdown", would be bad.

I would like to hear more information before forming an opinion on which side is right or wrong.

One question that lingers in my mind - in the dance community, if somebody puts on a potentially competing festival the same weekend in the same corner of the country, wouldn't it be the best choice for both promoters to meet and discuss the best way to have a synergistic relationship?

In the situation I saw discussed on tribe I can see a good argument for either side of the conflict - as promoter #1, I'd be unhappy about a potentially competing event, and as promoter #2, I'd be unhappy if my constituents suffered disadvantages by promoter #1 for attending my event.

I am dancer with both tribal and oriental leanings, and part of me is sad to see that members of the tribal community feel the need to have their separate festival. Following my own heart, I'd like to see both Fat Chance and Hadia perform back to back - I'd probably faint out of excitement if that happened, but I'd faint in bliss. I'd like to buy banjara fabric pieces from a tribal vendor and then at the next booth buy a glittery cane from a cabaret supplier - that's what makes me happy. I feel that both styles are parts of what makes belly dance so much fun, and I'd like to see both at a festival I attend.

i promiced i would not tell of my source, but,steffib, it appears that it was done with forethought,the ramifications hitting home, when long time venders at rockassa, did not buy their usual tables/spot.hense, "you are not coming back!".
Go to Bottom of PageGo to Top of Page

Steffib, I agree with you, but I can also see where the organizers of Tribal Smackdown are coming from.

Last year Rakkasah made it very clear that if you cross the line performing there, there will be consequences. Now, I know that there is a difference between experimental and just plain inappropriate, but a lot of Tribal dancers I know are interested in pushing boundaries and experimenting with different music and moves in a "safe" setting where there aren't going to be massive consequences for a misstep. Now, to the credit of the Tribal community, most of the experimental stuff I've seen has come from dancers with a strong educational background and had a genuinely artistic and respectful attitude. But if I were dancing at Rak, well, even if I'd figured out an *awesome* tribal fusion routine to Nine Inch Nails' "Only," I wouldn't do it there. :D I'd do a cane dance or something. So I can see the desire to have a separate festival.

On the other hand, I really wish they'd made it less in-your-face competitive. I personally cannot afford to attend two major dance events at the same time, and I don't think many of us can. It feels like we sometimes-tribal, sometimes-oriental dancers are being forced to choose, which is kind of messed up in my opinion.
Go to Bottom of PageGo to Top of Page

any of you hear/know about this?
i was told to google "oto tribal dance"i was told this faction, is behind the events placement...whatever, i am not a festival person , so i do not know much.danced on a friday night at rockassa once with local band "mirage". i do know what oto is.

asimatiyat, you are right on about what act to bring to what venue.no one wants another upteenth page rant about a coffee table!

But why put the second event on the same weekend? That's a deliberate attack, and yes, forces the dancers to choose.

OK, I don't know anything about either event. But if the organizer of event A is worried that the presence of event B might cause her vendors to pack up & leave early, leaving her event looking post-Holocaust with four hours to go, I think it's reasonable to say you can't pack up early. (shouldn't make any difference *why* you pack up early, unless there's some real family emergency & you've got permission).

A vendor should be able to have an employee/friend/family member set up at the second event with whatever merchandise is most likely to sell there, I'd think, so they're not being prevented from vending at both events, just from packing up early.

Now, if having a second table at the second event got you barred from the first, I'd use the term blacklisting.

OK, I googled "oto tribal dance" with and without quotes and got nothing -- well, with quotes nothing, without them, a lot of stuff about Native American dance.

Then I googled "tribal smackdown" and got stuff about LOST on TV. The actual event is "Tribal Throwdown," which is in Berkeley that Saturday. There's a thread about it in the Tribal Dancers fan forum.

As an East Coast person, I don't personally know what the geographic relationship is between Berkeley and Richmond, CA. Both shows seem to have a pretty impressive lineup, but reading over the Throwdown homepage, I'd say my guess was correct -- that the idea is to provide a more accepting atmosphere for experimental performances. When any pop culture phenomenon gets to be more mainstream, it creates little splinter factions, and this seems to be no exception.

In any of the discussions I've read on "inappropriate" performances at Rakkasah no tribal dancers or groups seemed to be in question, although I certainly could have missed it.
Rakkasah has always openly stated in their flyers and website that all fusion and creative interpretations are welcome, with only the "family friendly" stipulation. Their spring caravan this year on the east coast is entirely devoted to tribal and fusion workshops.

It definitely seems that organizing your own big festival on the same weekend and in the same area as an already established other big festival is a deliberate attack. It could very easily have been organized for another month.

Berkeley and Richmond are adjacent towns in the north east SF bay area...

I think there's plenty of blame to pass around. I think the tribal gals are wrong to do it on the same weekend - definitely a slap in the fact to Rakkasah - but I also think this alleged vendor thing is wrong too. I too have a source, I'll ask around...

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net

Berkeley and Richmond are adjacent towns in the north east SF bay area...

I think there's plenty of blame to pass around. I think the tribal gals are wrong to do it on the same weekend - definitely a slap in the fact to Rakkasah - but I also think this alleged vendor thing is wrong too. I too have a source, I'll ask around...

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net

I agree here with Zorba, I don't think there is any reason to do it on the same weekend at all.

The homepage of tribal throwdown also has a subtitle West Coast Riot. This entire event seems to be reeking of negativity. I usually wait a long while before forming an opinion. But this is just so blatant. Too bad whomever is weak to the pull of negativity whatever their problem is. It takes work to make resolve. Maybe we can support a possitive resolution? Maybe by not choosing either event until the new one chooses a later date. It is not ethical to intentionally compete with another event.
that's my .02
Rose

Gezzz, sounds like it is becoming a mess. I agree that there needs to be an ethical resolution here. The entire thing sounds like it is dividing the dance communitee instead of bringing it together.

So what's the URL of the tribal throwdown?

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net

I noticed on tribe that none of the info for Tribal Throwdown appears any earlier than mid-December 06. While I don't know what may have been going on behind the scenes, the scheduling does seem like a deliberate challenge to Rakassah - the date for which is set way in advance.

hasnt rock ass a been around for over 25 years?

http://www.tribalthrowdown.com/
Looks like an interesting event. If I were in the area, I'd check it out, even though I'm not a tribal dancer. Just a thought -- and I really don't know the answer but want to throw it out there -- but could it be that the Tribal Thowdown organizers put it on a Rakkasah weekend as a way to give people the opportunity of checking it out? I mean, obviously, a lot of people come to town for Rakkasah -- vendors, dancers, shoppers, etc. And they come from all over the world. It's unlikely that THAT many belly dancers will travel from so far away for TWO festivals. Could it be the organizers just wanted to capitalize on the built-in market? I see that there is no admission fee to enter the festival, only for teh workshops...

Personally, I think hosting an event that competes with another event is a little short sighted -- we are, afterall, a fairly niche market. And yes, this could have been done maliciously... though I think it if that were the case, it's a risk that could just as easily backfire. It takes a lot of money to produce an event and if you divide your already small market just to be mean spirited, well...

This is from the Tribal Throwdown website: "The event is being staged by three veteran members of the dance community: Meliza Wells, who has danced with Ultra Gypsy, Lotus, Lapsus and is currently co-director of Bastet. Joining her is Amy Sigil, director of the break-out fusion troupe Unmata and Hot Pot Studios in Sacramento and producer of the annual Blood Moon Regale event. Rounding out the team is Brad Dosland, owner of Taboo Media, which helps produce Kosmos World Music and Dance Camp, the annual Undulation afterparty, and, most recently, Ultra Gypsy’s Medusa and Machine movie project."

If I were the Rakkasah organizer I would not be happy about another major festival only a few miles away on the same weekend. However, when you are hugely successful, people are going to either try and get on your bandwagon, copy you, or compete with you. AND this is like a new generation, the young, tribal fusion generation that wants to spread its wings and create something "new."

I, personally, do not think it is ethical to schedule on top of the other festival, but the organizers of Tribal Throwdown obviously have a different idea about ethical behavior. And they seem to be smart and successful in the tribal fusion community. Maybe they sincerely believe they can succeed and Rakkasah can succeed, too. Maybe they are aware of a lot of support for their event from people who don't normally attend Rakkasah.

Maybe this is a sign of growth and the belly dance world is big enough to support both of these events. I sincerely hope so.

Having experienced something similar, on a much smaller scale, I understand a little about both factions needing to "do their thing." It's kind of hard being the older, established event and feeling like the younger performers that you tried to nurture have turned against you. I won't go into details but something like that happened to me once and it took awhile to get over it. Years later I now can see that it's a natural progression for the leaders of the younger generation to step out and go in a different direction. And people don't always know how to communicate clearly or even feel that it is necessary to do so. I wish the organizers of both events could have an amicable resolution to the situation, though.

did you notice smack down is FREE?

Wow. How close are these two festivals?

"Pirate Belly Dance" - HA HA HA HA HA HA!

piggy backing events on top of each other seems to be a fade right now. tina

Ah, the wonderful embrace-all-comers stylings of tribal. "No paper dolls"? Pfft.

Can we not make this a Tribal vs Oriental catfight?

Please???
Go to Bottom of PageGo to Top of Page

It seems really disrespectful to me to organize another event so nearby on the same weekend. I can totally see why Rakkasah organizers might get bent out of shape over it.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zumarrad

Ah, the wonderful embrace-all-comers stylings of tribal. "No paper dolls"? Pfft.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"Can we not make this a Tribal vs Oriental catfight?"
only if we get a coffee table dance in somwhere! lol

Originally posted by zumarrad

Ah, the wonderful embrace-all-comers stylings of tribal. "No paper dolls"? Pfft.

where does it say that?

What Dunyah said above. As for the not packing up early thing - At past Rakkasah', vendor were asked to please not pack up early to leave in order for the attendees to have the maximum opportunity for shopping. There was no punishment for doing so. It's been true for many years that if you give up your vending spot for one festival, you have to get back in line to get one for the next festival. I know someone who is waiting for a new vending spot after not using hers one year. I don't know of anyone having been deprived of a vending space for packing up early so matter what their reason.

I say let them go...I was happy to see less fusion at last year's Rakkasah, aside from one performance that caused a stir (and I am not referring to the coffee table incident, rather one that apparently I am too dense to understand because I haven't read Foucault, but let's just say it involved a fusion of b-movies and belly dance).

Maybe Rakkasah just isn't the right place to be "different" and frankly, I'm not interested in watching 55 troupes in flairs dance to club mixes of bollywood/metal/hip-hop/saidi. It's not a cabaret vs. tribal thing, it's a matter of differences in approach and taste. Amy Sigil is a very talented dancer and has quite a following. But what she does isn't belly dance anymore and I think it's fine for her to branch out and attract an audience that fits her style of dance.