Undercut-proofing Your community

[AnnaTX]

I know this may be pie-in-the-sky, but I'm curious to know if there are any dance communities out there that are successfulling averting undercutters. If so, what is your community doing to keep rates fair?

Or any dance community that has successfully raised rates after undercutting has gone on...how did your community recover?

[SatinWorship19]

Staying tuned for this thread.

The economy has really changed the way a lot of people are doing business near me, and not for the better

[anala]

Will sell real estate for...ehhh...whatcha got?

[crystalllized]

Staying tuned for this thread.

The economy has really changed the way a lot of people are doing business near me, and not for the better

Will magic crystals help in this case too?

I guess to some extent in Sacramento there is a sort of partial community aversion to undercutting. There is Jodette and her outrageous undercutting and then there is the rest of us that have a "common enemy" mentality. Because of the "us vs them" thing going on we are all very close knit and communicate well to make sure we are keeping rates well above Jodettes's rates so when we pitch bids to customers, we can all feel safe saying that the non-student dancers in Sacramento all charge the going rate.

When we (or at least Mychelle and I) catch wind of a dancer breaking out of the Jodette camp or moving into town, we are proactive in reaching out to that person to alert them to the going party rates. In fact, I have to talk to a "new" dancer this weekend to get her to raise her rates.

[Bellydancefanatic]

I think undercutters will weasel their way in no matter what, but as Nyla already mentioned, I think maintaining a close- knit dance community, as well as establishing a professional dancer network/organization (we have one here in D.C.) will help keep undercutting under some control. But it's not the answer either.

BDF/KJ

[IscahPaquin]

For restaurant work we actually have a dancer's guild that sets the rate for shows. The 5 or 6 major restraurants all abide. Of course, the rates haven't been raised in 15 years... And if a new restruarant opens up you have to cross your fingers that the dancer they're working with negotiated the guild rates or more.

But, we haven't found a good way for private gigs.

[SamiraShuruk]

There is no under cut "proofing" unfortunately. There will always be the ones who rationalize undercutting just to get out there.
There IS however education and ethical examples set by good instructors and mentors, along with clear communication (and help from local yahoo groups etc). Then cross your fingers and hope for the best.

[crystalllized]

I know this may be pie-in-the-sky, but I'm curious to know if there are any dance communities out there that are successfulling averting undercutters. If so, what is your community doing to keep rates fair?

Or any dance community that has successfully raised rates after undercutting has gone on...how did your community recover?

You inspired me to make a spin-off thread http://www.bhuz.com/forum/business-b...e-raising.html

[amarasdance]

For restaurant work we actually have a dancer's guild that sets the rate for shows. The 5 or 6 major restraurants all abide. Of course, the rates haven't been raised in 15 years... And if a new restruarant opens up you have to cross your fingers that the dancer they're working with negotiated the guild rates or more.

But, we haven't found a good way for private gigs.

In terms of restaurant wages, the Guild is a great benefit to our community, in my opinion. However, I think the Guild actually hurts us with regard to private gigs. The Guild's private party rate is $100 (minimum). The going rate for most gigging dancers is between $150-200 minimum. So in that way, the Guild is actually hurting dancers in the community- in the sense that new dancers really don't know what the going rate is, because the Guild should know, right? ..g.: (Some teachers, myself included, teach "business of belly dance" in classes, but many do not. And not all teachers in our area have ever gigged, so how would they know?)

The end result? Our rates are all over the place. Most dancers charge a minimum of $150 and up (considerably- there are VERY few gigs that I would do for $150- my regular minimum rate is higher than that), there are dancers that undercut the going rate, and there are dancers who undercut the Guild Minimum (which means that they're charging $75-80 for a gig; in reality, they're undercutting by 50%+ from the going-rate!)

[zorba]

I understand that the intent is good - but I have a visceral aversion to any group that calls themselves a 'guild'.

With that said, I know one dancer who called everyone in her area to ask what their rates were for 'coordination' - then proceeded to undercut them all!

[amarasdance]

I understand that the intent is good - but I have a visceral aversion to any group that calls themselves a 'guild'.

The 'guild' is the Guild of Oriental Dance, started in the 70's by Cassandra Shore. The main aims were/are to set fair wages (primarily for restaurants, I believe) and to provide performance opportunities for non-professionals. It has been (and still is) a VERY good thing for our community. As someone who has (successfully and unsuccessfully) negotiated with restaurant owners, it is VERY nice to have set minimum wages that nearly all of the area restaurants follow. (I have negotiated higher, by the way- it is a minimum, not the only choice.) When I started taking classes, the only choices for performances were restaurants and private parties, and Guild events. The Guild held monthly festivals, a large Annual Show, coordinated belly dancing for Mid-East Mirage weekend at Renaissance Festival, and did a few parades and other stuff. For non-professionals, the Guild was really the only option at that time to perform.

Now there are haflas through many different belly dance schools, as well as many other events that non-pros can perform at. So the Guild isn't the only game in town, but it is still a vital part of the belly dance community. The Guild still hosts monthly festivals (I am the festival coordinator- we do 10-11 festivals- 5 at area restaurants and the others at Cassandra's dance studio), the Annual Show, the same weekend at Ren Fest, social parties and picnics, and more. It also hosts workshops for it's members and a swap meet.

It is a very good thing for our community. Without the Guild, I'm not sure what belly dance here would look like, but it would certainly look different. It's just not particularly good for private party wages, as I mentioned in my first post (and as Iscah mentioned).

[zorba]

Totally understand - and no disparagement meant. I just have a bug-a-boo about the word "guild" I guess. Sounds way too exclusionary - which I'm sure yours is NOT - and 16th century! No matter - never mind me!

[amarasdance]

I'll never "never mind" you! I respect you too much (from what I've seen of you here on Bhuz)! I have mixed feelings myself about the Guild's place in today's dance community- it seems to be shifting right now, which I think is healthy- things have to change with the times or become obsolete.

The MN Guild tries very hard to be as open and welcoming as possible- but I totally get the dislike for the term "guild." It's just a name.