Thread: Do You Share Your Business Strategies With Other Dancers?

Originally Posted by raqFariha

there are also some dancers who just don't care enough to be classy, no matter how much advice you give them. so i think that's another reason for it to be a case by case basis.

Right. Exactly!

Some people roll their eyes when I give them advice, because half of my advice pertains to classing it up, making sure your rates reflect your expertise, and saying no to cheap gigs.

Hey....you complained that you're feeling burned out, unappreciated and underpaid, and I just told you how to fix it! I'm sorry, but it is what it is. ,r:;

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Hey....you complained that you're feeling burned out, unappreciated and underpaid, and I just told you how to fix it! I'm sorry, but it is what it is. ,r:;

Amen to that!

Classy is very important. I have a friend who has been dancing for 8 years and who still gets caught up on the $50 hooka bars. One time I referred her to a client who wanted a dancer for a wedding but the client declined explaining she was not 'classy' enough. I tried to tell her in the nicest way but she became very defensive telling me she didn't need to deal with that type of "f....ing" people. What I am suppose to do there? She just doesn't get it....

Originally Posted by rjasso

Classy is very important. I have a friend who has been dancing for 8 years and who still gets caught up on the $50 hooka bars. One time I referred her to a client who wanted a dancer for a wedding but the client declined explaining she was not 'classy' enough. I tried to tell her in the nicest way but she became very defensive telling me she didn't need to deal with that type of "f....ing" people. What I am suppose to do there? She just doesn't get it....

There is nothing you can do.

When the student is ready...the teacher will appear. But if the student isn't ready, then there is absolutely nothing that will help.

Originally Posted by rjasso

Classy is very important. I have a friend who has been dancing for 8 years and who still gets caught up on the $50 hooka bars. One time I referred her to a client who wanted a dancer for a wedding but the client declined explaining she was not 'classy' enough. I tried to tell her in the nicest way but she became very defensive telling me she didn't need to deal with that type of "f....ing" people. What I am suppose to do there? She just doesn't get it....

Yeah....I have a few friends like that. Beautiful, talented, experienced....but dancing for tips only, or otherwise burning themselves out on the $50 hookah and restaurant gigs. It perplexes me, but at the end of the day, it's none of my business ,f::

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I have the same problem, and I've given up on telling my friends that they deserve better, because they really don't want to hear it. Seriously, just do your thing and be the best you can be. If people want to follow your lead, they will. If not, you'll just burn yourself out being the Belly Police.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

It seems like the more generous you are with sharing your time and advice, the more people feel like it's OK to ask for MORE of your free advice in a PM or e-mail. I've had multiple requests from people I don't know at all (lurkers, even, not even public Bhuzzers) for complicated involved stuff so many times... tell me about starting a studio (how many weeks will you give me to convey the info?)... critique my video... let me write you a novel about my political situation with my teacher....

I don't mind giving the advice, I really don't. (though sometimes you're the 5th person requesting my private attention in a day, and I feel a little put upon)

I can relate. As you might expect, Shira.net attracts a lot of these demands.

Originally Posted by rjasso

....client declined explaining she was not 'classy' enough. I tried to tell her in the nicest way but she became very defensive telling me she didn't need to deal with that type of "f....ing" people.

Ahhh. What class.
I have encountered this type, too. Usually blames issues on the snobby client or snobby dancers who charge too much. One of my favorite lines is "who does she think she is, setting the bar so high"... lol. Apparently it's a crime to have high quality standards in some circles.
I share A LOT - things that help everyone, help the image of the dance, help the community. etc.
I share pretty much everything with my students (level appropriate). How they do reflects on me, I care about them and I want them to have everything I can provide to help them do the best they can.
I've been seriously burned by dishonest people- and some knowledge that I've worked really hard to get (and/or can only be achieved through experience)- I don't share with just anyone who asks. Sadly enough it takes a long time of knowing someone before I trust them and this is a direct result of dishonest dancers doing and saying some pretty despicable things.
... and as others have said... "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink..."

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

Ahhh. What class.
I have encountered this type, too. Usually blames issues on the snobby client or snobby dancers who charge too much. One of my favorite lines is "who does she think she is, setting the bar so high"... lol. Apparently it's a crime to have high quality standards in some circles.

This is what I don't understand. If you were highly successful and productive at your 9-5er, wouldn't you believe you were worthy of a raise? Wouldn't you discuss your achievements with your boss during your annual performance review and convince him that you're good enough to take on bigger projects and make more money?

As entertainers, we're NOT at the mercy of a boss. To a great extent, we can control our financial destiny. This is so endlessly empowering to me, having been on the opposite end of the spectrum in the corporate world. I know some talented dancers who have been dancing 10-15 years and are essentially giving themselves pay cuts, which I think is utter B.S. If your skill level AND your expenses have increased through the years, why wouldn't you value your skills enough to command a respectable rate? I've only been dancing professionally for 4 years and I gave myself a slight raise recently - not anything huge, but enough to buffer against my own increased costs. And ya know what? Plenty of people still hire me!

Oh, and the snobby client thing is hilarious, too. Clients will pick and choose what they want. And as I learned when I worked in the business of multi-million dollar homes, high-end clients are incredibly persnickety and intelligent. They know when they're getting the real deal, versus a gimmick. To make a long story short, they perceive more value in a 20-minute show performed by a beautiful, well-dressed, competent dancer at $300 than in 60-minutes of aimless wiggling and nonstop "harem cheeze" bellygram tricks for $75.

Snobby dancers? It's not so much about being snobby as it is about not being able to pay the landlord in "exposure" or shawarma. Some of us need our gig income to make a living....

I've been seriously burned by dishonest people- and some knowledge that I've worked really hard to get (and/or can only be achieved through experience)- I don't share with just anyone who asks. Sadly enough it takes a long time of knowing someone before I trust them and this is a direct result of dishonest dancers doing and saying some pretty despicable things.

Same here. I used my marketing expertise to create opportunities for myself after getting burned a few years ago. Where I am right now is the cumulative result of years of soul searching, professional development in my 9-5 line of work, and self-study outside of work. It's my brainchild and my baby. I won't share my hard work with just anyone who asks, especially not when I foresee a good chance that they might use it to compete against me in various unkosher/undercutting ways.

... I DO however "share all" in the workshops I teach. From dance to business- I do my best to "give all I've got."
Those are usually far from home, though.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

... I DO however "share all" in the workshops I teach. From dance to business- I do my best to "give all I've got."
Those are usually far from home, though.

Yeah, I've thought about possibly putting together a marketing workshop for other dancers. In fact, I've had people ask me about it before, but it's been on the back burner thanks to my search for a 9-5er. Personally, I am all in favor of getting everybody on the same page for business ethics and professionalism, because we ALL win when everybody commands respect. Plus, a workshop is a different situation because people are paying you and giving up their time so you can share your wisdom with them.

But yeah....due to the undercutting situation in my backyard, I'd rather teach marketing workshops at least 100 miles from home. Anything closer would just be "enabling" .w.:

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

But yeah....due to the undercutting situation in my backyard, I'd rather teach marketing workshops at least 100 miles from home. Anything closer would just be "enabling" .w.:

Spot on! LOL. Enabling....hahahahaha.

I'm one of those who has and does ask for advice/tips.
But on specifc things only (like when I was putting together my student manual and troupe guidleines). I was trying to figure out if I was getting in all the things I should be, or if there was something else that might want to address or cover and asked a couple of you (out of my area professionals) what you had in yours...
Heartfelt thanks again!

But to ask step-by-step directions on biz how-to's or for trade secrets? NEVER!


I learned early on not to bother those under whom I studied - as I received either bad advice, or they ran w/ my idea themselves (in one case - stole the gig I was trying to get out from under me BY UNDERCUTTING!).
Whether it was to prove they could, due to bad communication (in the case of advice they gave), or just bad business form/relations all together - I don't know. But I pose no threat or competition to those outside my area (nor they to me), and feel I've always received great tips/advice from them.

Interesting thread. I really believe that others can copy your site, the way you do business (or write it up on their site that way:) but in the real world they are marketing themselves. You can put up anything on the website and sooner or later you have to DANCE, you need to deal with the client (for performance), teach students and give them wonderful training they want to come back for. So a slick site only goes so far, you are marketing yourself. Long term for your business to succeed YOU are the marchandise, you are selling you.
So I don't worry so much about the copy cats and such. I've run my own business since my middle 20's, seen it all. Different business same old tactics.
As for advice I always keep that in mind. You can give people advice and they will always be a step behind if they can't put together one creative thought

Originally Posted by faaria

You can give people advice and they will always be a step behind if they can't put together one creative thought

:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

You've got my 2 thumbs up!!

Originally Posted by faaria

You can give people advice and they will always be a step behind if they can't put together one creative thought

You have my two thumbs up, too! ..g.:

Originally Posted by raqFariha

don't push down on them while they're cooking, it makes that delicious sounding sizzle but also squeezes all the yum out of them (learned that the hard way ^_^).

I manage a successful bakery by day and belly dance by night. I can relate to this topic. Yes, I will tell you what goes into our pesto. No, I won't tell you what the basil to olive oil ratio is to make it yourself. Buy my product for crying out loud! No matter what industry, some things are trade secrets.
On the flip side. Sure I will teach you to belly dance, but only if you hire me..g.:>