Thread: Do You Share Your Business Strategies With Other Dancers?

I'm kinda interested to see where some other marketing-savvy Bhuzzers might stand on this...

I get a lot of questions about marketing, because obviously, people out there think I'm good at it and appreciate my input. Generally speaking, I'm VERY generous with advice, and have been known to write mini-novels to Bhuzzers who e-mail me with questions about their photos, SEO, copywriting and other general business questions. Most people who contact me are non-competitors whom I already know through Bhuz, and I really like to see fellow dancers succeed.

Once in awhile, somebody asks you to share a little more marketing info than you're comfortable with. Usually, they mean well, but I have certain branding, sales, and SEO "tricks" that I consider proprietary and really don't like to share with everybody. Unless, of course, they contracted out my marketing consultation services

What's the tactful way to field these occasional inquiries? And how much of your business info do you share with other dancers?

I tend to be super generous as well, and I've had it burn me; however, I still share a lot of marketing ideas with others because I believe it helps bring up the standards in the belly dance world overall.

I think that bad business practices and poor marketing hurts the belly community. I am certain that there are many potential students and clients that have been lost because the dance was poorly presented. If the standard can be raised, then there will be more business for everyone. I think this is a win-win. Thus I am generally willing to share.

There are a few things that I keep to myself (SEO is a great example), but it's mostly things that are beyond the basics.

I find that a lot of what I do seems to get copied, but I just don't have the energy to care about that. Besides, as a creative person, I have new ideas all the time. So I just do my best to stay focused on doing what I do best. The unoriginal copy-cats just never seem to be able to do it well or to sustain good practices for the long-term.

As far as handling them tactfully, I just usually refer them to a professional...
"I've had a lot of success with SEO because of the team that I hire. You might try doing a search for SEO professionals in your area."

My thoughts exactly.

For the most part, I'd rather be open and helpful because when dancers present themselves as sophisticated professionals, we ALL benefit. It also makes me feel good to know that I'm inspiring people. "Beyond the basics" is where I typically draw the line.

And that's a good response to the specific SEO questions

As a broke grad student in the sciences with zero knowledge of marketing/business outside of Dummies books, I am an "asker" and really appreciate feedback BUT I totally understand if the person says no or says to hire someone. It is a fair thing to say and I would not hold that against anyone. But, I will ask if there is opportunity.

In the sciences information shared with people in my field means publication death to me. But, I would share some info with people outside my field that I did not feel a direct threat to me or my work.

Maybe a case by case basis or if they have some information/skills to trade with you?

I share pretty much everything.

Originally Posted by crystalllized

As a broke grad student in the sciences with zero knowledge of marketing/business outside of Dummies books, I am an "asker" and really appreciate feedback BUT I totally understand if the person says no or says to hire someone. It is a fair thing to say and I would not hold that against anyone. But, I will ask if there is opportunity.

I actually enjoy most marketing inquiries because they encourage me to think outside the box and explore new strategies. It's a fun challenge. Plus, I get my own little moral victory when I can help dancers succeed in specific communities that are riddled by notorious undercutters! (That's why I love when you pick my brain, Nyla) .w.:

You're right, though, I take everything on a case-by-case basis. 9 times out of 10, I'll chew your ear off or write you a mini-novel. I guess I wanted to explore, 1. am I being TOO generous, and 2. at what point does friendly advice begin to verge on "you might want to hire somebody to do that for you?"

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

I share pretty much everything.

I used to share everything, but I learned the hard way that it's possible for people to take your stuff and use it to compete against you. It was a brutal lesson for me. I've had stuff literally "copied/pasted" from my website and then undercut by $5. These days I'm much more careful about who knows what. I generously give lots of information to individuals who are asking questions, and I post stuff on Bhuz & facebook. But I no longer "share it all". Not even with my staff.

Lol , yeah , the ones who blatantly copy my website get an email from my webmaster. And I dint think I'd share with total strangers. But colleagues and friends and students I am pretty open.

I know what you mean though. It's a fine line trying
not to be taken advantage of.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

1. am I being TOO generous, and 2. at what point does friendly advice begin to verge on "you might want to hire somebody to do that for you?"

It's an interesting discussion. I struggle with this myself. You and I have different markets, but similar visions in terms of ideals & standards.

I really do take things on a case by case basis. If it is someone in my backyard that could potentially hurt my own business, I tend to hold back a bit more. But like I said above, I've been burned.

I'm more likely to help someone who lives further away and doesn't organize an event at the same time of year as mine.

Even so, I still help out people in my own area all the time. I really don't want Suzy Nippletassles hosting a free workshop and getting press coverage--because that would hurt my own local community a lot.

Originally Posted by crystalllized

In the sciences information shared with people in my field means publication death to me. But, I would share some info with people outside my field that I did not feel a direct threat to me or my work.

Maybe a case by case basis or if they have some information/skills to trade with you?

It's kind of the same thing in the belly world. If you share certain things with the wrong people, it can hurt you. I have a former friend that I shared some of my long-term business goals with for our dance community and she turned around and posted them on a local list as her own ideas. I would have never thought that this sort of behavior was even possible. Afterall, we were friends when I shared those ideas with her. But now she has effectively stolen that business out from underneath me.

But please don't stop asking questions. It shows that you care about what you are doing, and there are always people out there that can help give you good advice. Most of us enjoy helping others.

Hmm.. I agree about the "basics" stuff- it's better to raise the standards that way but your trade success secrets.. all the 'beyond' basics stuff- I'd keep it locked up, or just share w/ a partner you really truly trust. it's good to have your 'signature secrets' ;)

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Generally speaking, I'm VERY generous with advice, and have been known to write mini-novels to Bhuzzers who e-mail me with questions about their photos, SEO, copywriting and other general business questions. Most people who contact me are non-competitors whom I already know through Bhuz, and I really like to see fellow dancers succeed

Me too. But girrrrrrrrrl... there was a time these people almost drove me off Bhuz!

It seems like the more generous you are with sharing your time and advice on Bhuz, the more people feel like it's OK to ask for MORE of your free advice in a PM or e-mail. I've had multiple requests from people I don't know at all (lurkers, even, not even public Bhuzzers) for complicated involved stuff so many times... tell me about starting a studio (how many weeks will you give me to convey the info?)... critique my video... let me write you a novel about my political situation with my teacher....

I don't mind giving the advice, I really don't. (though sometimes you're the 5th person requesting my private attention in a day, and I feel a little put upon)

But if you post on Bhuz, I can *choose* to respond or not, if I have time and inclination right now. If I choose to respond, my advice might benefit a hundred people instead of just one. Don't ask me to be generous while you're being stingy! If I'm up to my eyeballs in stress taking care of my dying mother, I can pass on the thread and you'll get advice from other people. Don't put me on the spot.

I've decided that when people contact me privately to ask for my advice, I'm going to say 'What a great topic! You should start a thread on Bhuz, if I have time I'll see if I can help you out."

************

sorry, all that was only marginally related to your question, but it felt really good to get it off my chest.

first off- SEO? please help those of us (okay, me!) who can't figure this one out!
When I was doing my sewing business, I was astonished at how many people asked me outright for my patterns- the patterns that I spent hours & many drafts perfecting & getting a good range of sizing on- so they could sell my skirts at the farmers market, or make one for someone for Christmas or whatever. I am more than happy to share sewing tips, even drafting tips. I will happily direct anyone towards the learning tools I used, and if someone is really interested, I would be willing to go through the legal rigamarole to license my patterns. When someone stepped over my comfort line, that's pretty much what I told them- I'd be happy to give them a list of resources, look into licensing or come on board as a consultant/designer.

I am honestly excited when I talk to new folks trying to get started in a small business & I love supporting fellow artisans. I want them to succeed & am happy to help, but damned if I'm going to give away my baby!

having said that, I have been most appreciative of both Carrara & Samira's most excellent marketing & business advice over the years!

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

I actually enjoy most marketing inquiries because they encourage me to think outside the box and explore new strategies. It's a fun challenge. Plus, I get my own little moral victory when I can help dancers succeed in specific communities that are riddled by notorious undercutters! (That's why I love when you pick my brain, Nyla) .w.:

:) I promise I am trying to become more useful in the marketing realm. I moved from the way back of the Google search bus to the middle back! Some progress...baby steps :) and, I am almost done with Hypnotic Writing and getting ready to write an ultra-cheesy party description to hypnotize potential customers... LOL We'll see how that goes.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

It's kind of the same thing in the belly world. If you share certain things with the wrong people, it can hurt you. I have a former friend that I shared some of my long-term business goals with for our dance community and she turned around and posted them on a local list as her own ideas. I would have never thought that this sort of behavior was even possible. Afterall, we were friends when I shared those ideas with her. But now she has effectively stolen that business out from underneath me.

But please don't stop asking questions. It shows that you care about what you are doing, and there are always people out there that can help give you good advice. Most of us enjoy helping others.

UGGGG I so can't believe that happened, well sadly I can! I gave a great idea to help out a troupe I was in only to find out the troupe leader took the idea for herself!! :( Like she thought I wouldn't find out!

I will definitely keep asking questions. Inquiring minds want to know!

Originally Posted by Lara L

first off- SEO? please help those of us (okay, me!)

Search Engine Optimization. It's all about rankings in the search engines. And I've worked long and hard for years to get my website to the top. So I'm not likely to give those tips away easily. LOL.

Having said that, I have been most appreciative of both Carrara & Samira's most excellent marketing & business advice over the years!

Awwww...shucks. I'm glad that my long winded responses were useful to someone. :)

This thread is giving me a serious urge to PM you for advice!

1) Never found a tactful way to stonewall inappropriate questions. So I just say something like 'I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you.'
2) 1%.

on the local level, no one to share with ! there are only 4 instructors in fresno MAYBE.each has a differant style . i cater to the ethnic community. i think that is another ball of wax. i dont cater to the masses as the others do.

yes, when I was actively dancing as a bellydancer, yes

as a business owner, yes..I'm on various forums and love to share info to help others succeed

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

This thread is giving me a serious urge to PM you for advice!

Hey, I'll tell anyone how to grill a burger. Just don't ask me how to make the "secret sauce"

Originally Posted by Lara L

having said that, I have been most appreciative of both Carrara & Samira's most excellent marketing & business advice over the years!

Yeah, like Samira said, it's always good to know that somebody out there listens to your random rambling

And yes, I will continue to haunt the biz boards here on Bhuz and pull the occasional marketing blog post out of my backside. So don't worry, there will be more!

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

Search Engine Optimization. It's all about rankings in the search engines. And I've worked long and hard for years to get my website to the top. So I'm not likely to give those tips away easily. LOL.

YES. Bingo.

There's a world of difference between somebody asking you to critique their overall web presence and offer suggestions on improvement (which I'm more than happy to do), and a dancer flat-out asking you "How did you get to #1 on Google?" Especially when the latter dancer gigs in your neck of the woods and isn't in your immediate circle. If somebody used my SEO strategy (or PR advice) and proceeded to undercut or screw over other dancers in my local community, I'd have to hold myself partially accountable.

Then again, there's that rift between business and pleasure, and I think we all have our own individual interpretations on where to draw the line...

Originally Posted by maurazebra

1) Never found a tactful way to stonewall inappropriate questions. So I just say something like 'I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you.'

BWhahahahaha. Perfect.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

BWhahahahaha. Perfect.

Yeah, I am seriously thinking of stealing that. Maybe I'll threaten them with a visit from the Men in Black. Yes, I'll tell you how I won at Google - but then I will zap your brain and you'll have no idea what hit you! ..l;,

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Hey, I'll tell anyone how to grill a burger. Just don't ask me how to make the "secret sauce"

The secret sauce recipe would actually be pretty useless for me, since I can't even grill that burger.

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

The secret sauce recipe would actually be pretty useless for me, since I can't even grill that burger.

I'm right there behind ya. After 9 years of vegetarianism, I'm still somewhat challenged when it comes to cooking any sort of meat. My hamburgers are pretty much like boot leather

okay- *that* SEO... I did know that, somewhere in this messy brain of mine!
& this is why I hire a web-guy... and courteously stepped away from the "I'll do it for free" friend. Very important business lesson- it is worth hiring quality services for certain things!

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

I'm right there behind ya. After 9 years of vegetarianism, I'm still somewhat challenged when it comes to cooking any sort of meat. My hamburgers are pretty much like boot leather

don't push down on them while they're cooking, it makes that delicious sounding sizzle but also squeezes all the yum out of them (learned that the hard way ^_^). i still have a hard time telling when they're done, but my dad and brother both make really good burgers and they can tell by how "springy" the center is.

Originally Posted by Samira_dncr

I tend to be super generous as well, and I've had it burn me; however, I still share a lot of marketing ideas with others because I believe it helps bring up the standards in the belly dance world overall.

there are also some dancers who just don't care enough to be classy, no matter how much advice you give them. so i think that's another reason for it to be a case by case basis.

I really like this thread and have had several experiences with dancers asking me similar questions. Besides the marketing and creating a unique 'image' through your website, providing high quality shows is equally important, and that requires constant training, growth and challenging oneself. I know some dancers with great potential that seem to keep themselves at the same level for years, so of course your business will not grow.

Originally Posted by rjasso

I really like this thread and have had several experiences with dancers asking me similar questions. Besides the marketing and creating a unique 'image' through your website, providing high quality shows is equally important, and that requires constant training, growth and challenging oneself. I know some dancers with great potential that seem to keep themselves at the same level for years, so of course your business will not grow.

Yeah, this too.

Unfortunately, it's NOT just marketing. Otherwise, anybody could be successful without training or dedication.

Being at the top of a Google search and having gorgeous photos does help, but you're not going to do repeat business, generate word-of-mouth referrals, or get the kind of gigs you want if you're doing things exactly the same now as you did 5 years ago. Picking one area of expertise and refining the living crap out of it has been just as beneficial for business as any of my marketing efforts.

Perhaps, "quit banging your head against the wall" might be a good piece of advice for those who want to grow their business ..l;,