Thread: Pro vs teacher vs Student

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

The difference is that if you want to be a Broadway dancer, your expectations are tempered by the fact that you don't have to train very long before you start running into the harsh truth that not everybody is equally "special." We have a fundamental problem in that our larger educational system is not set up to prepare students for the reality of a stage career. Our system is too heavily biased in favor of the students' feelings, instead of what is better for their development in the long run. I'm not saying we should rough our students up as much as those other dance disciplines do--the top of our field isn't as bloodthirsty as theirs, and relative to our size, we have a lot more opportunities for the less-than-spectacular dancers to still have meaningful and appreciated performing experiences--BUT I don't think it would hurt teachers to be a little more forthright with students when it comes to the reality of public/paid/professional performing. When a student decides she wants to work in the pro arena, she's forfeiting some of her right to hide behind the "it's not nice to hurt my feelings" defense. You can't expect to train to be a pro, much less actually be one, and think you should be exempt from others' critical opinions, especially when they're constructive, valid opinions from people you're paying to train you. That's just not realistic.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Yes.

In most areas --I know, not all -- but most areas have venues appropriate to virtually all levels of dancer, from beginners dancing in a beginner-student group all the way to high-level pros (ie student showcases, haflas, festivals, etc.), that are not open to the family of four from Peoria who happen to walk into the Falafel House. The Falafel House is a true public venue where the audience should be seeing only the better dancers.

How to become a better dancer? Train. And dance at the venues appropriate for your level! (see above)

I'd think that the circumstance as described by Annwyn is very well served in ways previously mentioned:

1) A couple of "student slots" of very brief duration (not more than 4-5 minutes) for high level students. They get their feet wet dancing for the GP, but understand that they are not of pro readiness, although they might very well get there if they continue training!

2) All other slots filled by pro-level dancers.

3) Everyone must wear an appropriate costume. Hel-loooooooooooooo! No costume = no commitment = no GP performance opp.

4) Instituting auditions might be the way to go for future additions to the rotation.

5) Remind ourselves that we dance for the audience. We exist as entertainers for the audience; the audience is not there doing us a favor by watching us dance. The audience in a GP venue deserves the best.

Deborah

Lots of great advice from people on this thread so far.

Annwyn, it looks like feelings could get hurt regardless of how you approach this situation, since the dancers are used to things being done in a certain way ... Try turning any negatives into positives - perhaps the "jealous catty haters" will be prompted to improve! :)

Personally, from my own experience, I'm hugely disappointed when I pay $ to go to a "professional" show only to discover it's mainly a student showcase (with perhaps one or two quality professional dancers). I understand that students want to perform, but there are other ways they can gain the experience. Perhaps student showcases could be organised at a studio, or other venue?

Originally Posted by azhaar

Personally, from my own experience, I'm hugely disappointed when I pay $ to go to a "professional" show only to discover it's mainly a student showcase (with perhaps one or two quality professional dancers). I understand that students want to perform, but there are other ways they can gain the experience. Perhaps student showcases could be organised at a studio, or other venue?

It definitely depends on where you live, but in a lot of areas, the local "pro" population consists mostly of dancers who would be considered "intermediate" or "barely-advanced level" students elsewhere. It's very difficult to put together a good local show when the creme de la creme is actually more like milk. Maybe what we need is more honesty about the fact that in some communities, shows are never anything BUT student showcases with visiting headliners who've come in to teach workshops. Not that there's anything wrong with using what you've got--it's the best those places can do--but it's deceptive to advertise and price the event as if it's a constellation of stars, when it's a collection of sometimes-paid amateurs plus one.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It definitely depends on where you live, but in a lot of areas, the local "pro" population consists mostly of dancers who would be considered "intermediate" or "barely-advanced level" students elsewhere. It's very difficult to put together a good local show when the creme de la creme is actually more like milk. Maybe what we need is more honesty about the fact that in some communities, shows are never anything BUT student showcases with visiting headliners who've come in to teach workshops. Not that there's anything wrong with using what you've got--it's the best those places can do--but it's deceptive to advertise and price the event as if it's a constellation of stars, when it's a collection of sometimes-paid amateurs plus one.

Exactly. I totally agree with everything you've said, and I think the key point is honesty. Honesty to ourselves, our students/teachers, the dance community, and the general public. How can we hope to improve otherwise? (I guess the sad fact is, some people believe they don't need to improve, or they don't want to.)

As far as this situation is concerned, if the dancers in Annwyn's area are honest with themselves then they will understand why they have not been selected to perform (assuming some kind of audition process takes place, and that quality/professionalism is the only selection factor). Perhaps constructive feedback could be given to applicants/auditionees?

Hello ladies! Let's start at the very beginning! This venue was partly owned by one of my previous belly dance teachers and at some point my troupe director. She did hold monthly belly dance showcases for her troupe and intermediate to advanced students . She wanted to allow her students the opportunity to showcase what they had learned from all of the hard work and continuous training that had undertaken under her supervision. It allowed them to get their "feet wet" you might say. Anyhow, a year ago she decided to move out of state to pursue one of her dreams. She left the troupe with us and wanted us to continue on with the showcases. It has morphed in many ways and we have had more and more dancers (mostly professional) want to come and perform at our troupe's showcase which happens once a month at the venue m'lady helped to create. Alot of the dancers that perform there were her students. They have been dancing for many years and honestly despite the fact that she left us with the troupe to carry on....some of the dancers have more seniority. They continue their dance education and are deeply knowledgable about it. From the history, dance styles, etc. They do have appropriate costuming, it's just not caberet. We have only had 2 incidents where we had to confront the costuming issue. As a troupe showcase, we do have a pretty substantial following in this small city and for the most part have had very good feedback from not just the audience but other dancers as well. Thanks so much for your thoughts and ideas. We are doing quite well with our growing pains and it's nothing we can't make it through. Again thanks for the support!

<3 Hope this helps!