Thread: Gigmasters question

I know that if a bid results in someone being hired, you receive an email saying who it was. Is there a way to see what the dollar amount of their winning bid was? I'm trying to gauge why some get hired/others don't and am trying to rule out certain factors, price among them.

click on the $ range in their profile. it should bring up a pop up window showing their latest bids. the bids that resulted in a hire will have a gm logo/icon next to them...usually

D'oh... Sabrina already said it.

That and if you look at the Search Results Analyzer you get total booking dollars so you can see over time how much your competitor has earned through GM.

Thanks--that was not apparent at all!

What does it mean if someone has a range, but you can't click on it?

Originally Posted by najla86

Thanks--that was not apparent at all!

What does it mean if someone has a range, but you can't click on it?

It means that for some reason, they've opted out of having their "quick quote" tab visible

hmmm, well that's suspect (particularly when put together with one of the people who keeps getting gigs I bid on) <sigh>

Originally Posted by najla86

hmmm, well that's suspect (particularly when put together with one of the people who keeps getting gigs I bid on) <sigh>

yup. that's why GM sux

Originally Posted by najla86

hmmm, well that's suspect (particularly when put together with one of the people who keeps getting gigs I bid on) <sigh>

Yeah....just a little sketchy .w.:

hmm...I just checked out GM for the first time in a while and I see that most dancers actually have it so that you CAN'T see their bids. When I was on the site, everyone had their bids showing. VERY sketchy, IMO.

I still have three months left on my contract with them after I come back from "maternity leave". I am not really looking forward to getting back into the cut-throat gig game on that site again....

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

hmm...I just checked out GM for the first time in a while and I see that most dancers actually have it so that you CAN'T see their bids. When I was on the site, everyone had their bids showing. VERY sketchy, IMO.

I still have three months left on my contract with them after I come back from "maternity leave". I am not really looking forward to getting back into the cut-throat gig game on that site again....

Yeah, and have you noticed that the dancers who book the most business on there are the ones who have their Quick Quote tabs set to private? It is SO shady. Why would you hide your bids unless, well, you had something to hide?

I'm still debating whether or not it's worth renewing my subscription again...

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Yeah, and have you noticed that the dancers who book the most business on there are the ones who have their Quick Quote tabs set to private? It is SO shady. Why would you hide your bids unless, well, you had something to hide?

I'm still debating whether or not it's worth renewing my subscription again...

It is shady. I always used to look at everyone's quick quote tabs to see what rate the "competition" was booking at. But that's "way back" when I was at the top spot, or the top two spots - when I rejoin I'll probably be number 25 or something, because these newbies have gone gig crazy while I've been pregnant!

The OP's question has been my bane for a long time. I'd love to get more insight into the customers' decision-making processes.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

hmm...I just checked out GM for the first time in a while and I see that most dancers actually have it so that you CAN'T see their bids. When I was on the site, everyone had their bids showing. VERY sketchy, IMO.

Ehhh ... sort of sketchy, sort of not. I opted to hide my bid history just because I wanted to change a few things and to be consistent with some of the others. Silly? Maybe.

You can always go to the search results analyzer and divide the total amount by the number of gigs done and get an average. I've done this several times, and the average seems within "community-approved range" most of the time.

That does NOT, however, mean that they are actually charging the customer that amount of money. Undercutters may be avoiding detection by making a deal with the customer and saying "Okay, I'll run 'Y' through the system, but when I get to the gig, you can actually pay me 'Y-minus-Z' dollars" thereby keeping their dollars and ranking high but still undercutting. I don't know if anyone would do this, it's just a theory I made up, but I think it's plausible.

There are dancers, too, who will run their own private party arrangements through GM so that they can get the ranking; they already knew the clients and had the gig at an agreed-upon price, so it's just a "dummy" lead for the rest of us. I don't know how I feel about this practice. It reminds me of the auditions I used to go on for theatrical shows: There would be this audition posted or that you got sent on, and you'd cancel work, rehearse, take extra classes, be nervous, get your hopes up, and turn your life wrong-side-out only to arrive and put in time waiting and finally be seen, and then at the end, there were no callbacks. They would say, "Well, we actually don't have any openings in the current production of XYZ, but we're really glad you all showed up and now we have your photo and resume on file. Thanks so much! Bye now!"

Originally Posted by Nabila-Nazem

The OP's question has been my bane for a long time. I'd love to get more insight into the customers' decision-making processes.

Honestly, I've observed that customers on Gigmasters are swayed by an entirely different decision-making process than people who hire me through my website. I am still chewing on it, but my marketing theory is that the Gigmasters Customer is fairly indiscriminate and actually less thought into their decision-making process than somebody who individually cherry-picks dancers off a Google search and talks to them one-by-one.

Half of the time, customers on Gigmasters really don't seem to know what they want, or if they want a belly dancer in the first place. Often, I find that I'm working with a half-baked idea, rather than an actual pre-meditated commitment to hiring a belly dancer. If the price works and you're quick on the draw, they'll go for it. Often, you'll go through the booking conversations with the client and see that they never booked anyone. (Or they did hire somebody and they agreed to do it off GM).

When I speak with a customer who found me from a Google search, the conversion rate is greater than 90%. They find me, they want me, and they book me. There seems to be a much higher level of commitment and interest from these customers.

I also think GM customers are probably swayed by the star rating system, which, as we know, has its faults.

That does NOT, however, mean that they are actually charging the customer that amount of money. Undercutters may be avoiding detection by making a deal with the customer and saying "Okay, I'll run 'Y' through the system, but when I get to the gig, you can actually pay me 'Y-minus-Z' dollars" thereby keeping their dollars and ranking high but still undercutting. I don't know if anyone would do this, it's just a theory I made up, but I think it's plausible.

I think this is very plausible. They could easily say, "Just pay me the deposit and I'll waive the rest." It's not like Gigmasters really tracks the balance of the payments.

There are dancers, too, who will run their own private party arrangements through GM so that they can get the ranking; they already knew the clients and had the gig at an agreed-upon price, so it's just a "dummy" lead for the rest of us. I don't know how I feel about this practice.

I don't think it's terrible, because some dancers might want to boost their star rating and get feedback. But can't they instruct their client NOT to auto-add 12 people? All you have to do is uncheck a box.

Oh, and if I get a lead that says, "Hi Lady Shapoopie, I'd like to book you for a 60-minute show," I don't respond to it. The way I see it, that's not even worth my time.

Well, I actually booked hula dancers for my bday party through GM so let me give you all some insight into how my mind as a "customer" worked :-)

I found two hula companies that I liked, but I did the auto-add just to see who else they would send a bid too (funny that they sent it to a few bellydancers, but all said no). I specifically said in my bid request that email was the quickest and easiest way to communicate with me, because I didn't want 12 people calling me with bids.

I got a bid immediately from a DJ company with no price in it. I didn't like that - I clearly stated in my request that I wanted 2-3 dancers for a 20-30 minute show in Queens. That should be enough for at least an estimate. This company wanted me to call or email back to get more info. Don't make me do work just to find out a price. I didn't respond and got a phone call immediately, which I also ignored. I got a few more phone calls, none with actual prices, all telling me how great they were and to call back, and all of which I ignored.

I got bids from both of my initial picks, with rough-estimate prices including different options. I believe both also called me to see if I had any questions, but I screen my calls so I just got their messages.

So, I emailed both back, explaining which options I wanted and how much I could spend. Only one responded back, they were my faves anyway and we were able to figure out a show at a price I could afford, so I booked them.

Since there are not a lot of hula dancers on GM, I guess they don't have as competitive a booking process as we do, because she only said to go through GM if I wanted to leave a deposit by credit card. I sent a check and we left GM out of it.

So, as a client, the things that got me to book were:

1) Actually responding to my bid request with a bid
2) No incessant "salesman" pitches on my cell
3) Being quick to respond to my emails with additional questions
4) Good press kit with videos of performances

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Oh, and if I get a lead that says, "Hi Lady Shapoopie, I'd like to book you for a 60-minute show," I don't respond to it. The way I see it, that's not even worth my time.

The Gigmaster bid request form has a dropdown menu for the 'length of entertainment' and one hour is the shortest duration people can possibly choose. So I wouldn't assume they necessarily want that. I'd just reply and recommend the set length that seems appropriate.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The Gigmaster bid request form has a dropdown menu for the 'length of entertainment' and one hour is the shortest duration people can possibly choose. So I wouldn't assume they necessarily want that. I'd just reply and recommend the set length that seems appropriate.

Yeah, I know how to use that function and believe me, I use it quite frequently

I was referring to the "if the client wants Lady Shapoopie" aspect, not the "if the client wants a 60-minute show." If I see that I've been auto-added or the client specifically wants one particular dancer, I generally don't bid on it unless it's close to home or really interests me. Even in the latter case, I don't follow up TOO aggressively unless I'm their top pick.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Yeah, I know how to use that function and believe me, I use it quite frequently

I was referring to the "if the client wants Lady Shapoopie" aspect, not the "if the client wants a 60-minute show." If I see that I've been auto-added or the client specifically wants one particular dancer, I generally don't bid on it unless it's close to home or really interests me. Even in the latter case, I don't follow up TOO aggressively unless I'm their top pick.

Oh, I see. Huh, I've never gotten one of those before, so I didn't understand. (I'm the only local dancer listed on GM. I guess the others know stuff I don't)

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Oh, I see. Huh, I've never gotten one of those before, so I didn't understand. (I'm the only local dancer listed on GM. I guess the others know stuff I don't)

Gotcha. I've gotten a few leads that say, "Lady Shapoopie, give me a call! I want to book you." Or "I'm interested in hiring Lady Shapoopie for a bachelorette party this Sunday."

Funny, because all the customer has to do is uncheck the "auto-add" box if they just want to contact Ms. Shapoopie. I've gotten leads where the client chose not to contact anybody but me.

Though, I guess it never hurts for them to keep their options open if Shapoopie is unavailable! ..l;,

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Yeah, and have you noticed that the dancers who book the most business on there are the ones who have their Quick Quote tabs set to private? It is SO shady. Why would you hide your bids unless, well, you had something to hide?

You are assuming the worst (and from what I've gleaned from your postings you always assume the worst of your local competition). It COULD also be that way because they don't want Client X saying, "But I saw you only bid $XXX for a cocktail party on X date, why are you charging me twice as much for my cocktail party?" I could be for various reasons, but maybe the performer would rather not face that awkward situation.

Also, not all dancers who DON'T advertise their rates are under cutters.

Originally Posted by najla86

I know that if a bid results in someone being hired, you receive an email saying who it was. Is there a way to see what the dollar amount of their winning bid was? I'm trying to gauge why some get hired/others don't and am trying to rule out certain factors, price among them.

Are you offering to pay the $20 booking fee? And for that matter who here who is on GM offers to pay the booking fee?

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

Are you offering to pay the $20 booking fee? And for that matter who here who is on GM offers to pay the booking fee?

Me. I've always paid it and I think most NYC dancers do too. You kind of have to if you want any control over whether or not your bookings actually go through GM and help your ranking.

ETA: I get why you are asking, I think - are you saying that plays a big role in who gets a gig and who doesn't?

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

You are assuming the worst (and from what I've gleaned from your postings you always assume the worst of your local competition). It COULD also be that way because they don't want Client X saying, "But I saw you only bid for a cocktail party on X date, why are you charging me twice as much for my cocktail party?" I could be for various reasons, but maybe the performer would rather not face that awkward situation.

Also, not all dancers who DON'T advertise their rates are under cutters.

Sure, that could be the reason - but if you had a legitimate reason for all of your prices, you should be able to explain to the client the differences in your shows and why they lead to different pricesl. I do it all the time, not awkward at all.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Me. I've always paid it and I think most NYC dancers do too. You kind of have to if you want any control over whether or not your bookings actually go through GM and help your ranking.

ETA: I get why you are asking, I think - are you saying that plays a big role in who gets a gig and who doesn't?

I'm not sure. I am just curious. It also affects whether or not someone is undercutting. Say Dancer A charges $150 for one set and offer to pay the $20, that means I would get $130. Now what if Dancer B charges $130 and doesn't offer to pay the $20. That means the client would pay $150 total. Now, they might go with the one that appears to be cheaper, even though it's the same price. Just something to think about. Now if Dancer B charges $130 AND offers to pay the $20, then we've got some undercutting going on.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Sure, that could be the reason - but if you had a legitimate reason for all of your prices, you should be able to explain to the client the differences in your shows and why they lead to different pricesl. I do it all the time, not awkward at all.

No, not awkward, it's just some people are weird and it's just as likely that someone is advertising their rates and undercutting as someone who isn't advertising their rates and undercutting. I'm just saying.

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

You are assuming the worst (and from what I've gleaned from your postings you always assume the worst of your local competition). It COULD also be that way because they don't want Client X saying, "But I saw you only bid for a cocktail party on X date, why are you charging me twice as much for my cocktail party?" I could be for various reasons, but maybe the performer would rather not face that awkward situation.

Also, not all dancers who DON'T advertise their rates are under cutters.

I know they're not ALL undercutters, but I also don't understand why being transparent about pricing is something you'd want to actively avoid. Personally, I find that giving my clients an honest ballpark figure is a mutually beneficial situation - the client knows whether or not my rates are doable against their event-planning budget, and I avoid those classic awkward pricing conversations.

Not to mention, if all dancers posted their prices on their websites, it would help set the tone and give clients a more accurate impression of what we're worth. When it comes to value perception, customers tend to form their impressions based on the first couple of prices they see.

As for variations, you can avoid that through clear verbiage. On my website, it says "$250+" instead of "$250." Not to mention, anybody who's hired any type of service provider should be familiar with the idea that extended travel, as well as additional labor or material costs, will increase the final price tag. Flat rates apply to commodities, but for services, variations are par for the course and to be expected.

As for the assuming the worst about the locals part? Daniela, Najla, Nabila and I are all working in roughly the same <100-mile gigging radius and referring to similar local phenomena that we've noticed on GM. So from the sound of things, others are just as perplexed about certain regional trends as I am.

I always paid the GM fee, but I also always bumped my rate up $20 for anything booked through GM. So technically the client paid the fee.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I always paid the GM fee, but I also always bumped my rate up $20 for anything booked through GM. So technically the client paid the fee.

This is how I've been doing things lately.

In theory, I like how GigSalad and Eventective don't make you pay a booking fee. I've just never gotten any gigs off either of those sites.

I don't bump my rates for GM, because I have my rates clearly spelled out on my website, so I don't want clients to see that and say "but wait a second, how come I am paying MORE than what you have listed??"

I think of the GM fee as an agent's cut. Even though they don't do the same amount of work as an agent.....

But basically, I take that $20 as a loss and consider it my fee to keep my rankings up.