Thread: Donation Based Classes?

Your opinions? (No, I'm not starting donation based classes)

There's a local teacher who teaches different genres of movement classes in town. Her classes are now donation based, not fee based. Does this happen in your local market? Does it cause direct competition for you? How do you handle this type of business competition?

I notice folks advertising donation-based classes on occasion but then they disappear. We don't 'handle' it - we just pay more attention to our own business.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

Your opinions? (No, I'm not starting donation based classes)

There's a local teacher who teaches different genres of movement classes in town. Her classes are now donation based, not fee based. Does this happen in your local market? Does it cause direct competition for you? How do you handle this type of business competition?

In our city, some teachers occasionally offer donation-based classes as fund-raisers for worthy causes; they are not keeping the money from those classes.

I don't believe this practice draws students from fee-based classes, because the situation is not on-going. If someone offered donation-based classes all the time, I can see how it would be a problem.

I would support work/study or barter arrangements on a case-by-case basis over an open-to-everyone donation-based system.,r:;

Yes, this is happening in San Francisco. Don't know whether it has caused wreckage or not. Any SF teachers with input?

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/business-b...utting-gs.html

It's very common among yoga teachers, because many of them see what they're doing as very spiritual and they don't feel good about charging for it.

Even among yoga teachers, though, it's not usually a long-lasting phenomenon for several reasons...

Sometimes it's a sign that the teacher isn't valuing what she does. If the students begin to perceive that the teacher isn't committed and is coming to class unprepared, they'll eventually stop coming.

Usually if a teacher is willing to seriously commit to preparing a curriculum and teaching well-planned classes, she's spent a LOT of time and effort. Even if she doesn't really need or care about the money, she will get her feelings hurt if no one seems to value what she's done. And we really do show what we value with our wallets.

So in the end, usually either the teacher walks away or the students do.

I'm sure exceptions are possible, of course. I'm generalizing like mad here based on my observations of the yoga community, but I know at least yoga teachers who've survived on the 'love offering' payment scale since the 70s when they first started teaching and really believe in it.

My first thought is, I don't see it as competition. A pain in the backside until it fails & folds, yes. Actual competition, no.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

It's very common among yoga teachers, because many of them see what they're doing as very spiritual and they don't feel good about charging for it.

Even among yoga teachers, though, it's not usually a long-lasting phenomenon for several reasons...

Sometimes it's a sign that the teacher isn't valuing what she does. If the students begin to perceive that the teacher isn't committed and is coming to class unprepared, they'll eventually stop coming.

Usually if a teacher is willing to seriously commit to preparing a curriculum and teaching well-planned classes, she's spent a LOT of time and effort. Even if she doesn't really need or care about the money, she will get her feelings hurt if no one seems to value what she's done. And we really do show what we value with our wallets.

So in the end, usually either the teacher walks away or the students do.

I'm sure exceptions are possible, of course. I'm generalizing like mad here based on my observations of the yoga community, but I know at least yoga teachers who've survived on the 'love offering' payment scale since the 70s when they first started teaching and really believe in it.

When I've experienced donation-based yoga, it was usually ran by students far into their training or a rotating group of teachers, so it was never the same teacher. The money typically went to a cause.

Originally Posted by indigostars

When I've experienced donation-based yoga, it was usually ran by students far into their training or a rotating group of teachers, so it was never the same teacher. The money typically went to a cause.

Some yoga teacher programs require the trainee to donate her services to get teaching hours and as part of a karma yoga program (one of the 8 branches of yoga).

Raising money is different, I think. (we do that at my studio, participate in annual World Yoga day to raise money for Doctors without Borders, for instance, and the teachers donate their time).

A couple of my teachers in Mexico were essentially hippies (one was a hippie descendent raised in meditation communes) who taught ongoing classes with no set price, for a 'love offering.' It's the teaching equivalent of busking. Teach, set out a hat, hope for the best. One of my teachers has been doing it this way for decades.

I think that sort of thing is rare these days, though, and doesn't happen much in major cities where yoga is big business. It's definitely connected to the more spiritual yoga practices, not things like Bikram and Power Yoga!

I hear what you are all saying. But this is not a spiritual quest, acquiring student teaching hours or raising funds for a special cause. This is, every week teaching for free, hoping someone will donate. This is not yoga. This is not a religious/spiritual service. These are donation based dance and movement classes.

Sometimes people say this is donation based class if the teacher does not have a licence.

There is a yoga studio in Toronto that offers 20+ regular classes (that people pay a standard rate for, I think about $15-20) and they also offer 1-2 donation based classes per week. I believe they market it as a way for someone who can't afford the normal rate to still enjoy a class, and it is normally run by a "student teacher" who is gaining their practice hours. They also offer discounts to students/seniors too on a case-by-case basis. I think this is fine and a nice idea because there definitely are people who can't afford the standard rate. and I think doing a donation based or even free class for a good cause is a great idea.

I don't think any professional teacher should just teach regular classes on a "donation" basis. It probably means they aren't a very good teacher or dancer and are just trying to bring in students any way possible, hoping to build a student base because they can offer classes on the cheap.

Like a few others have said, these "teachers" usually don't last very long because people will catch on that they are paying less because the quality of instruction is not as high as other professionals in the area.

I'd be real cautious about assuming that teachers who accept donations aren't qualified.

For a lot of people teaching is a sacred and yes a spiritual calling.

I'm well-paid by my employer and the classes are standard in terms of fees.

However I'm limited there, for one thing the classes are only an hour long and it takes me an hour to warm up. Plus that leaves little time for individual work, costume making lessons, watching DVD's or music theory etc.

My private classes are my own darn business. If I choose to give scholarships to my poor students that is none of your concern m'dears.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

It's very common among yoga teachers, because many of them see what they're doing as very spiritual and they don't feel good about charging for it.

Even among yoga teachers, though, it's not usually a long-lasting phenomenon for several reasons...

Sometimes it's a sign that the teacher isn't valuing what she does. If the students begin to perceive that the teacher isn't committed and is coming to class unprepared, they'll eventually stop coming.

Usually if a teacher is willing to seriously commit to preparing a curriculum and teaching well-planned classes, she's spent a LOT of time and effort. Even if she doesn't really need or care about the money, she will get her feelings hurt if no one seems to value what she's done. And we really do show what we value with our wallets.

So in the end, usually either the teacher walks away or the students do.

I'm sure exceptions are possible, of course. I'm generalizing like mad here based on my observations of the yoga community, but I know at least yoga teachers who've survived on the 'love offering' payment scale since the 70s when they first started teaching and really believe in it.

It seems most yoga studios around here have 1 or 2 "community classes" a week that are donation based, and they are very popular. Both of the yoga/dance studios where I teach do this. Usually there is a suggested donation listed which is a bit less than the regular class price, but the idea is that you pay what you can. Often, the teacher for the community class will rotate among different teachers at the studio, and the classes are generally not held at class "prime times"
I've never seen this done with dance classes or at an all dance studio, but I could see how something with that kind of format could work...

Originally Posted by PrincessNadirah

Sometimes people say this is donation based class if the teacher does not have a licence.

ahhh

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

My private classes are my own darn business. If I choose to give scholarships to my poor students that is none of your concern m'dears.

Scholarships are not the issue in this thread. Scholarships are financial aid provided to a student on the basis of academic merit or financial hardship. This implies there is a normal charge/fee for the education.

We are discussing regularly offered classes that are free to anyone who chooses to attend, and a donation may be offered...or not.

I think she would be better off to charge a small fee. I can't really see anyone donating for dance classes.

My mom runs a donation based food booth at horse shows to raise money for 4-H kids and people always want to give her less than the cost of the food. I don't think that is a very wise business practice.

I really can't see her doing donation based classes for long. She won't make any money and I think she will eventually start charging or quit.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

ahhh



Scholarships are not the issue in this thread. Scholarships are financial aid provided to a student on the basis of academic merit or financial hardship. This implies there is a normal charge/fee for the education.

We are discussing regularly offered classes that are free to anyone who chooses to attend, and a donation may be offered...or not.

Regardless, the implication was made, wrongly, that if teachers choose to donate their time either within the framework of a fee-based class or in the context of a donation based Yoga-type environment they're incompetent.

Therefore I spoke up.

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

Regardless, the implication was made, wrongly, that if teachers choose to donate their time either within the framework of a fee-based class or in the context of a donation based Yoga-type environment they're incompetent.

Therefore I spoke up.

I'm sorry if it was my response made you feel that way. I don't believe just because a teacher would offer a donation based class this means they are incompetent. BUT in a lot of the cases I have heard of/know of where this is happening with bellydance that is the case. There are some "teachers" (a.k.a beginner level students) who don't have a high quality of technique and not enough knowledge of the dance history, etc. and are willing to teach for free/on donation basis because they want to cut corners and undercut other teachers who have spent years to become true professionals and learn this art. I'm not saying they are ALL like this, but I have seen that scenario more often...

As far as spirituality is concerned; it was well known that Biddy Early of Ireland was always paid for her seeing trade even though it was whiskey or hens or fatal consequence would befall her customer. Its also a fact that in China if you don't pay your reader even a single cent, they received bad luck. As far as an experience goes that does not require physiological consequence I can see donation being a viable option... this is NOT the case with belly dance.

There is no real such thing as a "licence to teach belly dance" or "Belly dance certification" unless of course the wizard of Oz is handing out certificates and Peter Pan is delivering (and I'm sure they these things are legally moot) but there IS such a thing as health insurance and group teaching insurance.... Which is critical if you're going to teach and especially if one were to decide to teach a MC-belly dance class. There are plenty of them out there, or if there is someone fudging it and teaching based on donation (assuming its not for a greater cause/once in a while) and its an on going process.

I do not get the feeling that someone teaching based on donation is educated with the proper body postures certain movements require to prevent chronic injury of knees, lower back, and worse the spine. I would seriously advise anyone who sees something like this to steer clear of it and advise others to do so as well. If you were going to teach and donate to a greater cause you could always advertise as "all proceeds from tuition going to cancer/diabetes/leukemia etc." But you wouldn't charge nothing. No one likes to work for free, even if the work is enjoyable.

C'mon aren't we all students of our own art? Are we not artists? Where is our pride in the dance? Does it not deserve recognition? It isn't something to be whored in such a way. The art is sacred and divine and should be treated as thus. Where payment is concerned, its less the fee and more what it means to pay it.

Also I have a student who is doing this to me right now... right in my neighborhood no less. I'm pretty damned upset about it. Its insulting to her students and she's going to hurt someone. Yet she's also charging up the wahzoo... To say that teachers who teach based on donation are incompetent of the dance/All teachers who ask for pay as of yet is like saying that sometimes "y" is a vowel or not ALL ice-cream is cold. (Fried ice cream/melted ice cream isn't cold.)

Example: Elibelinde is fried ice cream and is the word "sky" and in my experience sometimes generous to a fault; Having taken many a class previous to Elibelinde, I can honestly say that and though I have cause to be biased I wouldn't say a thing if I thought otherwise. I never took a single class without giving something worthwhile in return and neither has any other of her loyal students.

Anyway enough of tangents. The point is; I'm calling the "donation" teaching's bluff. The donation bit is as hard to swallow as an expensive class done by a beginner.

My mom runs a donation based food booth at horse shows to raise money for 4-H kids and people always want to give her less than the cost of the food. I don't think that is a very wise business practice.

Precisely. I always read news articles about restaurants who do this, and supposedly most people donate more than the food might've even been priced at. I find this hard to believe. At any rate it's not fair to students/customers who aren't slackers--you'll always have the people who are deadbeats and will donate a quarter and pretty much get something for nothing, and then the conscientious people will either donate a fair going rate, or will given even more because they feel they need to make up for the slackers/deadbeats (or you may get a few who don't know what a fair rate is and will give either more or less because of that, and IMO it shouldn't be up to a student/customer to do a bunch of research to decide what the fair going rate is if they want to do the right thing). IOW: once again, the deadbeats and slackers are rewarded for their deadbeat-ness while everyone else pays for it. (And no, I don't believe in karma, so I can't justify it by saying "but it's okay because the deadbeats will get theirs some day." No they won't; they'll just keep being deadbeats)

I would rather my teacher tell me how much to pay and I will choose to either pay it, or not take her/his class, but to have to guess and hope that I'm not either stiffing them nor paying more than I need to be...