Thread: Why zumba classes sell better than belly dance classes?

I have started to take zumba classes to see what's the difference because everyone now signs for zumba and not for belly dance classes. And what I hear in the changing room: (quotes follow:) "belly dance is too difficult and aims at the performancing. Zumba is just a party, I do not need to learn and then I can just relax and have fun !. I do not need to listen the same song every class. or ..I am loosing more calories in one zumba class..."

So, can we make better business if we make the classes more interesting? I remember the beginners complaining if I am just doing the "follow me" part, and now they say that is all they want - no teaching, no learning, just plain fun ...

Also, there is a growing market for zumba wear. No one wants my glittery and femine stuff now. They are seriously turning into other teachers now also for shopping. So I am loosing business and not happy for it.

For me, belly dance is a party, at least when I do a shaabi or pop balady, but maybe I have turned our too "serious" when I teach it...but how can I make it more interesting without being too commercial.

Has anyone else learned how to cope with an excellent zumba instructor next door? Have you changed your teaching to be more like "a party" to bring back your customers?

Well, do you WANT students who don't want to learn and just want to have fun?

Zumba classes also have, at least here, massive "free" advertising on TV with all the infomercials for the DVDs.

I think it is always good business practice to figure out how other people are making money, Heinakuu, even if you don't want to imitate them closely. It sounds as though you are keeping both ears open in the right place.

We are going to continue to emphasize the 'dance' aspect because that's the market niche we want to be in. We've tried a few dance exercise classes but there wasn't a lot of turnout for them... maybe because our dance classes are already very vigorous. We'll just have to learn to be smart enough to make it work. We do attempt to make the studio as welcoming as possible.

One of the things I did notice about zumba as presented here were quite a few incentives. First class free, or rather, you got a voucher for your second class (sneaky!). Very significant concessions on a multiclass card that you had to use up within a fairly short time (sneaky!). Class voucher if you brought someone along.

But these are all things that work really well for classes that don't have a learning path. Part of zumba's appeal IMO is that you don't have to do anything at all bar turn up and follow the bouncing bum.

here, we're just waiting it out. last year most teachers i know really had a hard time filling their beginners, but the fad seems to be ending now.

i dont intent to change much, really, apart from investing in more and better advertising.... and making sure the classes remain high quality...

i'm not interested in teaching bellydance "zumba style"... we hope that free try out classes now and then show the students that our classes TOO are FUN.

the only market you cant really reach unless you start teaching some kind of "bellydance fitness", is those women coming to class really with a work out/weight loss goal

oh, and the thing zumba has that really IS a big draw and i really cant offer is the "pay as you go". where people just pay for the classes (often very very full) they show up for. as we teach more or less in a system with building blocks, and classes more or less continue of what you learned previously, i just cannot run the school that way. so our students pay mer 10 weeks session. while almost alll the zumba classes in town can be paid per class, or with class cards (and take any of the classes they offer that week with that card)... because it's fitness, and not dance instruction.

for me, for dance instruction, the per session pay just doesnt work

I just saw my water arobics has been replaced with water zumba...

Originally Posted by heinakuu

Has anyone else learned how to cope with an excellent zumba instructor next door? Have you changed your teaching to be more like "a party" to bring back your customers?

No. I offer something different - I teach them how to dance!

Zumba is a fun and energetic but it's not a class where you learn something. Maybe once in a while a step pattern is broken down, but that's about it. I want to to teach people who want to learn, not just bop around for an hour. I won't deny that things are tough out there, but this strategy is still working for me.

There has been an explosion of Zumba classes where I live in the past year but I think they are more likely to be competing with each other than with me.

And then there's the issue that some people will get hurt without proper instruction. A friend of mine, an older lady without any dance training and wanting to lose weight while having fun, ended up injuring herself pretty bad. Now she's walking around with a cane. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

Originally Posted by heinakuu

"I am loosing more calories in one zumba class..."

We never could compete with this at the hobbyist level. Much of our dance vocabulary is slow, sinuous movement. If you want to "feel the burn," take a Saidi workshop or do Aziza's 20-minute shimmy drill. We're just not an aerobic exercise class the rest of the time, and we don't need to be ashamed of that.

So, can we make better business if we make the classes more interesting?

Yes, all classes should be interesting. Nobody wants to spend money on being bored. That doesn't mean we should sell out who we are.

Also, there is a growing market for zumba wear. No one wants my glittery and femine stuff now.

Do you want to go into fashion marketing or teach dance? If the primary concern is to get students into classes so you can sell them clothes to wear, that is a different issue than wanting to be a good dance teacher.

For me, belly dance is a party, at least when I do a shaabi or pop balady, but maybe I have turned our too "serious" when I teach it...but how can I make it more interesting without being too commercial.

I don't know what's not interesting about your classes. Too much drilling? Too much lecturing? Too much insistence on doing things in a safe and authentically appropriate way? If you are expecting students to learn about the subject you are teaching in your classes, that certainly is a lot of nerve. Not sure what else you can do about it except build your brand within the dance community through knowledge, good teaching methodology, and professional conduct, and hope to attract REAL students instead of these perfidious goofs.

Has anyone else learned how to cope with an excellent zumba instructor next door? Have you changed your teaching to be more like "a party" to bring back your customers?

There are a couple of other threads about the decline of our market on Bhuz. We went through a long cycle of popularity, and it looks like that has ended now. We've got more teachers than the student market to support them. The economy is taking a bite out of all recreational activities. I know it is difficult to hold firm to your position when you really want this, but I don't believe that chasing after students who really aren't interested is a good long-term strategy for your own dance career. Don't you want to be the teacher that students go out of their way to study with, instead of the one who doesn't care what she has to do to keep her classes full?

I think if you want to compete with Zumba, you'll have to do it by offering a 'bellyrobics' class. Zumba is a fitness class, not a dance class.

Still, as someone said, it would be very hard to compete head to head with a class that's a hot trend and getting lots of TV exposure.

If it's about business, why not get a Zumba certification and offer Zumba classes? If people like YOU they'll try your other (bellydance) classes as well, it could be a great way to get them in the door.

I've got other people offering Zumba at my studio, thank goodness.

I, too, have a Zumba class offered in the same building where I teach. I was alone for many years in what used to be an existing gym that failed because the men demanded better climate control than what we women will put up with. I used the aerobics room and the rest of the building was empty. Then a women's only gym came in to occupy the space around me. I have watched the huge Zumba class grow into multiple classes and have come to a couple of conclusions. Here, with the large Hispanic community, the music is more familiar and very simple in it's structure. The instructor uses cues much like ATS to keep the people moving in sync. The decibel level is very high and there is no instruction per se. The heart rate climb is very steep and sustains for a very long time until the cool down.

I use a pay per class structure for my classes. It is the only way it works here. I offer a free class for students who hold a punch card (discounted) to bring a friend. I teach a cardio based class once a week for those who want to use what they have learned to exercise. The other classes are more technique driven. In order to survive, I have to be all things to all people.

am i missing something here ?..apples and oranges....i guess if your bottom line is $$$$ , sure teach zumba.......i teach culture and dance....not mindless movement.

Zumba is more of a fitness class than a dance class with a mix of different latin ballroom type dances like cha cha, salsa, merengue,rumba, etc. People are attracted to the music, the style of dance doesnt take as much practice or control and it burns lots of calories. Anyone I know in zumba, and I myself looked into it, did so to get in shape not necessarily to learn dance. Belly dance caters to the dancer, zumba caters to the fitness world. At least thats what Ive seen and heard.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i'm not interested in teaching bellydance "zumba style.

THANK YOU!! You are right - let's keep zumba and bellydance separate for integrity's sake!

I also went to a belly dance/cardio class and hated it. I understood it was for fitness and calorie burning sake but it bastardized belly dance. I already had experience with Egyptian training so seeing the moves taught so wrong and having the fitness teacher tell me I was doing it wrong pissed me off to no end. I left the class. She admitted she only knew BD on a fitness level and had no dance experience what so ever, yet felt the need to correct my moves knowing I had REAL BD experience. Then the other women in the class were doing the botched version and they were commended. Keep them separate!!

Originally Posted by heinakuu

I have started to take zumba classes to see what's the difference because everyone now signs for zumba and not for belly dance classes. And what I hear in the changing room: (quotes follow:) "belly dance is too difficult and aims at the performancing. Zumba is just a party, I do not need to learn and then I can just relax and have fun !. I do not need to listen the same song every class. or ..I am loosing more calories in one zumba class..."

So, can we make better business if we make the classes more interesting? I remember the beginners complaining if I am just doing the "follow me" part, and now they say that is all they want - no teaching, no learning, just plain fun ...

Also, there is a growing market for zumba wear. No one wants my glittery and femine stuff now. They are seriously turning into other teachers now also for shopping. So I am loosing business and not happy for it.

For me, belly dance is a party, at least when I do a shaabi or pop balady, but maybe I have turned our too "serious" when I teach it...but how can I make it more interesting without being too commercial.

Has anyone else learned how to cope with an excellent zumba instructor next door? Have you changed your teaching to be more like "a party" to bring back your customers?

Well, zumba is a craze everywhere, but there is logic to it. Have fun + exercise = weight loss that feels effortless.

A bellydance class is NOT a workout.

Yes, in an hour bellydance class you may workout a few muscles to exhaustion, but they are specialized and will not help your endurance, cardiovascular health or otherwise give you the fitness benefits that an hour of cardio will do. Never mind burning several hundred calories, it just doesn't happen.

Even a cardio bellydance class doesn't have the same physical impact in terms of burning calories and muscle fitness than a regular aerobic class.

We market bellydance as something everyone can do, but reality is that it takes time and dedication to execute the movements safely and to make them look good.

I think people pick Zumba becasue it is fun and fast paced but it is a fitness class so it is suppose to be that way.

LIke some have said here, Bellydance is a dance class not follow the bouncing butt fitness class. It take s time a patience to develope the skill.

I think people duon't always stick with BD because it is a committment and a disciplene and that is not what they are wanting. They want a fitness class that takes little or no dance training

Zumba is a fad like other fitness programs that will one day wane and be replaced with a different fitness class. I know it is frustrating for those trying to make their living teaching BD. Belly dance will always be here and ready for those who want to learn.

There also is the element that people assume BD is very easy. I myself have told people I do it and they say "I dont need a class for that. I already know how to shake my ass around" Many people think its a glorified strip tease, a lot of booty shaking and they already know how to do that so dont need a class. Ive had people out right say to me" why do you keep going to class? How much can you learn? How many moves can there really be?" Its very annoying

Apples and oranges, as zamora said.

Does anyone honestly think it would be a good idea to make belly dance instruction LESS serious? For what? To cater to people who take zumba instead of belly dance because they think belly dance is "too hard?"

I thought the problem was that everyone thinks it's too easy! And, in most classrooms, it is! You know why? Because too many teachers don't take it seriously enough. Too many people take belly dance lessons for 2 years and then jump into teaching (or for 10 years, but without the talent and/or drive to really become teacher-worthy). Too many teachers don't respect the artform enough to seek more knowledge or pass it on to their students. You take classes from someone like that and you'll think you know everything after just a few months.

The last thing we need is to try to be more like zumba.

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

Apples and oranges, as zamora said.

Does anyone honestly think it would be a good idea to make belly dance instruction LESS serious? For what? To cater to people who take zumba instead of belly dance because they think belly dance is "too hard?"

I thought the problem was that everyone thinks it's too easy! And, in most classrooms, it is! You know why? Because too many teachers don't take it seriously enough. Too many people take belly dance lessons for 2 years and then jump into teaching (or for 10 years, but without the talent and/or drive to really become teacher-worthy). Too many teachers don't respect the artform enough to seek more knowledge or pass it on to their students. You take classes from someone like that and you'll think you know everything after just a few months.

The last thing we need is to try to be more like zumba.

Everyone thinks its too easy until they really dive into it. Then they realize isolation is the name of the game and get out. And I know exactly what your saying about some teachers not being serious about it. I had a teacher that told me after 2 years I myself can be a teacher! Thats pretty scary.

Ahh the familiar zumba vs. belly dance debate. You shouldn't feel like you're competing against belly dance, as Lauren said its a fitness class vs. a dance class. I do not classify zumba as dance because of its heavy emphasis on fitness/burning calories etc.

To be honest, zumba is not suppose to be or have anything to do with belly dance. I teach it, but I teach it the way it was originally intended: latin flavor aerobics. I keep them 100% seperate because thats the way i believe it was meant when created by Beto Perez.

So if people are 'taken' with the zumba craze, its no different than spinning or water aerobics, it will pass, but those who want to learn how to DANCE? they'll op for dance classes.

Originally Posted by NefertariMerit

Zumba is more of a fitness class than a dance class with a mix of different latin ballroom type dances like cha cha, salsa, merengue,rumba, etc. People are attracted to the music, the style of dance doesnt take as much practice or control and it burns lots of calories. Anyone I know in zumba, and I myself looked into it, did so to get in shape not necessarily to learn dance. Belly dance caters to the dancer, zumba caters to the fitness world. At least thats what Ive seen and heard.

Exactly this. Zumba is the more recent incarnation of step aerobics, cadio boxing or jazzercise. People go there with the expectation to get a great workout and have fun - they want high energy and a quick pace. They are not there to learn how to dance (and dont really want critique or correction beyond what enables them to stay safe).

I believe you CAN do a bellydance fitness type exercise class in this format, but you would need to be very careful with the marketing of it and make sure that the students are fitness students, not aspiring dancers who might be disappointed.

As the person who must pay the rent, insurance, utilities and other endless expenses involved with the actual ownership of the business, I am for what ever keeps my studio open (within the boundary of good taste) so those that do want to go deeper have the opportunity to do so, including using the Zumba model for specific students who are there for reasons not strictly related to learning a dance form. As much as I would like to keep my classes meaty and worth while to those wanting to learn the dance, a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do in areas of limited population. Classes can have a different model on a day by day basis.

I've been teaching a bellydance fitness class for about two years now. Actually it's more a happy music drill class with repetitve combinations, lots of travelling, no complicated techniques - no undulations etc.
Attendance has been dropping as well. There's a zumba class right across the street at the same time. I'm waiting for the hype to end. There's no use in trying to compete - you just can't.

Argh, zumba. I have a zumba teacher who comes to my beginner class every now and then and she has shown me some of the zumba "bellydance" moves. Sigh.

What percentage of your students do you think are getting into bellydance for fitness versus because they know something about bellydance already and really like it as an art form?

Also, how popular are adult ballet classes? It sounds like many people here are teaching bellydance as an art form, not just as a fitness method, so it would be more like an adult ballet class. Maybe that is what we should expect now if the craze for bellydance is actually on the wane.

I think we might be reaping the selling of "bellydance for fitness".
When another fitness fad comes along, we slide off the hit parade.
I agree with everything that has been said about teaching this as a dance to be learnt, a progression, an experience of another culture's music, an entry into a community if you like.
A current advertisement on British TV has a woman ( of around 40) citing her hobby as belly dance and how it keeps her fit. I prefer to see fitness as a byproduct of bellydance as it is of any dancing.
Zumba will pass . More than a dozen years ago just before I started belly dancing, I attended a Salsa based aerobics class. Salsaerobics has died around here but Salsa certainly hasn't.
Zumba may kill off bellyrobics but there will always be so many of those who go along to that taster belly dance class who fall in love with the music and movement.

Simple solution:

We are all dancers.

Let's learn how to dance, not just bellydance.

As a fitness oriented instructor, to remain competitive in the market, one needs to diversify.

That might include as a few options...yoga training, pilates training, zumba 'certification', personal training certification, group fitness instruction, etc.

These things are only going to make you a better teacher anyways.

I'm a certified hatha yoga instructor and currently studying my MA in dance, as well as taking as many bellydance classes and workshops as I can afford to, I also started to learn swing.

reason why?
not interested in office life, but would like to make a sustainable living.

I had someone take my class 4 or 5 times in order to "qualify" to teach belly dance in her zumba class. I had to sign a piece of paper saying she took my class. Of course I never saw her again.
Zumba is the class right after mine and right before mine. It is packed. Honestly I can't stand the music and it looks really boring to me. My class may be smaller but my students are there to learn to dance and to increase their flexibility as well as get in tune with their bodies. So everyone is happy. I don't see a big crossover except that former students of mine that couldn't handle the difficulties of belly dance went over to zumba which is fine with me.

I had a "new" student show up for my beginner class one day. She was a Zumba student, and was very excited for belly dance, as she knew there were "aspects of Belly dance" in Zumba, although it was NOT the same thing. She did seem to have a "I know more than these other people cuz I've Zumba'd like forever" attitude..
Well, she struggled in my class, with hip snaps and snake arms, and told me it was "a lot harder than I thought it would be" and never came back.
Belly Dance is hard. I recently read (somewhere) that belly dancers are genetically different(seriously!!!). And we aren't teaching "exercise", we're teaching DANCE. So I don't let Zumba scare me. It's 2 different things, and I've decided in my mind that more people are physically capable of Zumba than Belly Dance.
Makes me feel better anyway LOL!!!