Thread: Why do bd's in general put up with alot of bs....

My topic of the day:

Why do bellydancers tend to put up with a lot of crap-ola just to dance?

(I notice this more in the bellydance world than other dance forms)

DISCUSS......

care to join the occasion this is bugging you today? ;-) something happened?

LOL! No, nothing specific happened....
just stuff I hear on a regular basis........

It just baffles me how bd's (in general now, not all of us) are willling to debase themselves and put up with stuff just for a dance gig.

Some examples of things I have heard over the years: (and the dancers will comply!)

* parade in front of me in your costume so i can see it
* I need tall dancers, dancer:"I will dance my whole set on my toes"
* I can only pay you $xxx amount, not what you asked, dancer: oh, okay, I'll do it for that amount, CAN I KEEP MY TIPS????

etc., etc. I have more which I will post later.

Flamenco dancers I know would tell them all where to stuff it......
me included.....

I just think we, as bd's need to get tough on these kind of things and not be willing to put up with it.

.. because they are more into dance to play dress up and get everyone to look at them?

Or maybe they're really hurting for cash?

Maybe they don't really think they're good enough and can't find a better job? Maybe they're worried about ruffling feathers and being replaced?

Some people, I'll chalk it up to inexperience.. I remember when I was waitressing as a teen and in college, and put up with TONS of bull from restaurant owners. One day, I just clicked and remembered it was just a job that was easily replaced and not worth going home crying for what I was getting in return. In other words, I gained some self respect and a backbone! (And a huge "screw you" attitude to meanies).

Still... I remember the things I did put up with and look back with disbelief in regards to why the heck I'd put up with it.

yes, good insights Adishakti.

I've never put up with crap, even when I was younger.
In high school, I went the business track....I typed 120 words a minute, did pitman sten, my teacher was from the OLD SKOOL! let me tell ya'. she taught us pitman sten and we were gonna LIKE IT!
anyway, when I got out of high school at a few months shy of 18, I got a really amazing job in lower manhattan. Idiot that I was, I left it for a higher paying job at a law firm.
Dumb move. The lawyers I worked for, one guy, one woman.
the woman was SUCH A B%TCH, unbelievalble.

After two months, (I'm slightly over 18 now) I got fed up. I stood up at my desk, started putting on my coat.

Female Bitc$ lawyer:
"Where are you going"
Me: "home"
FBL: "it's not time to go home yet"
Me: "Oh yeah it is, I quit, and by the way, go f&ck yourself"

Later that afternoon, I get a call from HR begging me to come back.
Why? They couldnt' keep a secretary because they knew she was such a b&tch.
Male lawyer wanted me to come back too.

Me: Nope, all the money in the world wouldn't get me to come back.

Ya know...I don't think it IS just belly dancers.
Let's trot out the example of ballerinas who are regularly pressured to be pencil thin to perform...who get screamed at by choreographers and directors...they take a lot of abuse...just to perform.
B'way dancers...how many of them get told, after decades of classes and being impoverished that they're "dance 10, looks 3" and don't get into the chorus line?
Ballroom dancers put up with some of the worst competition from their own classmates, teachers, & coaches. They pay to compete and have to pay just ungodly amounts of money in costumes, hair, make-up to display their talents, often to cha-cha away with nada.
Tap dancers...street corners...subway stations...nuff said?
Ya know...just writing this makes me realize how hard a life it is being a dancer...I'm going to go pat myself on the back right now...
I suggest that you all do likewise.
Gia

notice in above story, they couldn't keep a secretary.

Insert bellydancers for secretary. I betcha they'd stay in the job, and do it for half pay.

Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar

Ya know...I don't think it IS just belly dancers.
Let's trot out the example of ballerinas who are regularly pressured to be pencil thin to perform...who get screamed at by choreographers and directors...they take a lot of abuse...just to perform.
B'way dancers...how many of them get told, after decades of classes and being impoverished that they're "dance 10, looks 3" and don't get into the chorus line?
Ballroom dancers put up with some of the worst competition from their own classmates, teachers, & coaches. They pay to compete and have to pay just ungodly amounts of money in costumes, hair, make-up to display their talents, often to cha-cha away with nada.
Tap dancers...street corners...subway stations...nuff said?
Ya know...just writing this makes me realize how hard a life it is being a dancer...I'm going to go pat myself on the back right now...
I suggest that you all do likewise.
Gia

Yes, you do have a point, but I still notice it more with bd's, maybe 'cause that 's my main work.

so, let's change question to WHY do dancers put up with crap.

Originally Posted by Adishakti

.. because they are more into dance to play dress up and get everyone to look at them?.

I think this is a big part of it. Performance is a somewhat narcissistic enterprise anyway, but it becomes almost a masochistic narcissim when dancers are willing to pimp themselves out for pennies just to be in the limelight.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

I think this is a big part of it. Performance is a somewhat narcissistic enterprise anyway, but it becomes almost a masochistic narcissim when dancers are willing to pimp themselves out for pennies just to be in the limelight.

Nisaa

Masochistic narcissim. Love it. Great phrase and unfortunately, true.

I wouldn't know...LOL...I only had one opportunity, adn I didn't put up with any crap. But maybe it is the dress up and get attention factor. Maybe it's the money.
Art is a hard thing to put a price on.

Originally Posted by *maria*

Yes, you do have a point, but I still notice it more with bd's, maybe 'cause that 's my main work.

so, let's change question to WHY do dancers put up with crap.

Yuh. Belly Dance is my job too.
I think dancers definately put up with it because they think they'll never get another job or that someone else might (and they will) get the job rather than them.
Maybe it's a right of passage for women to learn to tell someone to F-off. To learn that there is ALWAYS another job...that nothing is worth being made to feel 'that way'...
This summer, a restaurant I danced at had a maitre d' that was disrespectful. I dressed this guy down in front of the entire waitstaff. The owner BEGGED me to return to dance...I haven't yet graced them with my presence...but you can bet that IF and WHEN I return...I won't face the same BS that I did the last time. .p::

Gia

I think I'm going to start giving out the

"Brass Cymbals Award"

It will be awarded to a bellydancer annually, who shows the greatest amount of ba!!s in regards to her art.....

there will be a panel of judges who have shown by their behavior that they have coglione (thats ba!!s in Italian)

I would like to give the first honorary

BRASS CYMBALS award to: Our very own bhuzzer:

Midnight_star.

Will you accept?

Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar

Yuh. Belly Dance is my job too.
I think dancers definately put up with it because they think they'll never get another job or that someone else might (and they will) get the job rather than them.
Maybe it's a right of passage for women to learn to tell someone to F-off. To learn that there is ALWAYS another job...that nothing is worth being made to feel 'that way'...
This summer, a restaurant I danced at had a maitre d' that was disrespectful. I dressed this guy down in front of the entire waitstaff. The owner BEGGED me to return to dance...I haven't yet graced them with my presence...but you can bet that IF and WHEN I return...I won't face the same BS that I did the last time. .p::

Gia

Rock on!

I think our panel of judges for the brass cymbal award should be you, me, and Tina so far.....

I had some problems with wait staff being jerks and busy body know it alls at my last restaurant, and I went straight to the owner. After giving them a look that would kill.

I am NOT and was NOT willing to put up with crap from college kids.

Originally Posted by *maria*

Rock on!

I think our panel of judges for the brass cymbal award should be you, me, and Tina so far.....

I accept the duty of judgeing the Brass Cymbals Award!
LUV IT!!!
Gia

Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar

I accept the duty of judgeing the Brass Cymbals Award!
LUV IT!!!
Gia

I knew, as a Jersey/NY gal that you would!!!!!

Gia's very right! I'm amazed at how "cushion'y" the whole belly dance scene is compared to other dance forms. (Mainly when it comes to instruction and expectations in regards to practice).

As for playing dress up and being in the limelight? Heck, I love it and most of us probably do, I'd expect. The difference I think though, is whether or not you approach dance as a respected artform to excel in, or merely the road to strutting your sparkly self.

You can tell the difference as to when someone is dancing because they are passionate about the dance, or when they just want everyone to look at them. Dance skills aside, you need only look at their facial expressions and carriage.

So, if you're dancing only because you want that limelight, my guess is that there are self confidence/respect issues... and that would explain putting up with the nonsense.

sometimes i fear it's women generally;, that have been taught to be walked over.

Originally Posted by *maria*

I had some problems with wait staff being jerks and busy body know it alls at my last restaurant, and I went straight to the owner. After giving them a look that would kill.

I am NOT and was NOT willing to put up with crap from college kids.

It may smack of a tad of un-professionalism...but the guy was SO completely out of line that I offered, sword in hand, to perform a ritual circumcision with my scimitar in a VERY stern, loud voice that caused him to...how shall I say this...double over.
I think the owner wanted me back because he thinks this is a new part of my act...
Gia

When dancers are still "baby dancers" they may make ethical mistakes, and I can accept that (I made these mistakes myself). When you're a "baby" you don't yet know how to stand up for yourself, maybe you don't know your own worth, and you just really, really want to dance and don't realize that if you turn down certain opportunities, there WILL be others.

But what blows my mind are the dancers who are FAR past the "baby" stage who continue to dance for 25 bucks a set at seedy clubs and ACCEPT this. In this situation it's certainly not about the money. And I can't see how it could be about FUN. So the only thing I can chalk it up to is the dancer's need to be out there, to be looked at, no matter how degrading the venue.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by *maria*

I knew, as a Jersey/NY gal that you would!!!!!

LMAO!!! From one NY'er to another...right?
..g.: ..l;, :policeblinker:
Gia

Originally Posted by Adishakti

Gia's very right! I'm amazed at how "cushion'y" the whole belly dance scene is compared to other dance forms. (Mainly when it comes to instruction and expectations in regards to practice).

As for playing dress up and being in the limelight? Heck, I love it and most of us probably do, I'd expect. The difference I think though, is whether or not you approach dance as a respected artform to excel in, or merely the road to strutting your sparkly self.

You can tell the difference as to when someone is dancing because they are passionate about the dance, or when they just want everyone to look at them. Dance skills aside, you need only look at their facial expressions and carriage.

So, if you're dancing only because you want that limelight, my guess is that there are self confidence/respect issues... and that would explain putting up with the nonsense.

RIGHT ON again!

Good point Maria, I'd like to see you (and others) post more of these situations. Maybe then we can come up with the perfect smack downs and be more prepared. I think some of the over tollerance is being shocked and not knowing what to do. Thinking, great I just spent hours and hours preparing for this - is there some way that it can be salvaged? Sometimes the answer just has to be "no" though.

The rest of this acceptance of bad behavior may be residual feelings of not being a legitimate dancer since in our country people tend to think of ballet as the model, so if you're going to be anybody, you start when you're three. I don't know many 3 year olds lucky enough to learn BD. Then there's the attitude from some Middle Easterners that if you're not from the ME, you're not legitiment.

I personally like the one someone posted a while back, 'I'm not too expensive, you just can't afford me.'

I've been to restaurants where it's slow and the owner insinuated more than once that I shouldn't go on. I reminded him of our policy in the contract. If the dancer shows up on time and prepared, she gets paid rather you choose for her to dance or not. 'So I'd hate to have you pay for me to just sit here, I might as well dance.' That's one thing my old instructor did to protect us, that I admire. I wonder if there was anything in the contract of the dancer who contracted a sub (in the other thread) about this? If not there should be...I'd better check my contract....

xoxo,

Kittie

Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar

It may smack of a tad of un-professionalism...but the guy was SO completely out of line that I offered, sword in hand, to perform a ritual circumcision with my scimitar in a VERY stern, loud voice that caused him to...how shall I say this...double over.
I think the owner wanted me back because he thinks this is a new part of my act...
Gia

..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

good for you! I love it.....

"Where are you going"
Me: "home"
FBL: "it's not time to go home yet"
Me: "Oh yeah it is, I quit, and by the way, go f&ck yourself"

Oh Maria, why am I not suprised? Thanks for the laugh and the lift. That's what has to be done at times, and we all need to remember it.

Originally Posted by s1dur1_sab1tu

I think some of the over tollerance is being shocked and not knowing what to do. Thinking, great I just spent hours and hours preparing for this - is there some way that it can be salvaged? Sometimes the answer just has to be "no" though. Kittie

GREAT points Kittie.
I always left the house knowing that I could walk away from ANY gig, private party, restaurant job, anything and not suffer consequences.
Even those jobs where I was to get paid upon my arrival because they didn't pre-pay, I looked upon those jobs as 'dress rehearsals' if I had to walk out (and it's happened maybe twice in my career).
Sometimes I'd just trot home, turn on the video camera and make a dance video in full make-up & costume...
One time, I arrived at a new venue for a 2 set show that had been planned by the restaurant to the hilt...I was stunned to find the restaurant was nearly empty and the owner wasn't even there. I manage to finagle a payment for my troubles...then I, literally, walked 2 blocks down the street to this restaurant's competition and asked if they needed entertainment for the evening. They did. I got paid...
There are ALWAYS creative solutions...
Gia

i think they do it for resume padding.....

Originally Posted by s1dur1_sab1tu

"Where are you going"
Me: "home"
FBL: "it's not time to go home yet"
Me: "Oh yeah it is, I quit, and by the way, go f&ck yourself"

Oh Maria, why am I not suprised? Thanks for the laugh and the lift. That's what has to be done at times, and we all need to remember it.

Let me tell ya, that lawyer was SUCH A WITCH!!! with a super capital B.
It's amazing I lasted as long as I did....

I accept the Brass Cymbal Award, with hopes for a better future for bellydancers everywhere.
Thank you very much, sincerly. It is shocking to me the depths that some dancers would go to in order to get a job. 25$ a set?!? That's so incredibly degrading. Thats less than a Burger King employee makes if you add in class time, travel time, cosutme and make up time. I guess I'd be considered a "baby belly" but I'm glad I know better than and have a little awareness of the industry and self respect. Why do people do it?