Thread: restaurant owner expectations

I've posted this on another forum but also thought I'd post here...

Question: have you ever been asked to remain at a restaurant for an entire evening for a holiday party? I found out about a gig for New Year's Eve, but the expectation is for it to last for four hours (not sure how many sets to dance, but you'd be there for that full amount of time--waiting around or dancing; it seems a long time). I never heard of such a thing. I was thinking two 20 minute sets and leave. Is this a new trend?
To expect that for entertainment, I can't imagine what a rate would be.
Any thoughts on this??

We get this kind of request occasionally, usually for a benefit gala, and charge accordingly.

At least they are being upfront about the length of time. Not everyone is.

Try to get a better feel for what they have in mind - how many sets, how long of a set, how long you'll wait between sets, etc.

Not all restaurant owners really know what they're looking for, and he might have just said 4 hours as a ballpark figure. You might be able to convince this guy that two sets over a shorter period of time might be a more appropriate or cost-effective idea.

If, indeed, he wants you to stick around for 4 hours, PLEASE be sure to charge accordingly. And remember, gigging on NYE merits holiday pricing - typically 2x your standard rate.

That's the thing--I haven't done a holiday party in quite a few years. Turns out it is for two dancers, no mention of the number of sets and only (dumtek roll): $100 and food the whole night. Looks like too many undercutters and/or those who don't care what they get paid have ruined the market.

I've done parties where I'm asked to stay for x amount of hours after the performance as moving decor. I charge 150 for the hour for the first 2 hours after that the price goes up.

if it's a one time gig then disregard this, but if you regularly dance there they might be inviting you to join the party after as a guest, in which case i would change into my civies, put my props in a safe place, and tone down my makeup before re-joining the party, if i felt enough of a bond with my fellow employees to WANT to stay (ie: if i would have come to the party as a guest anyway)

of course if they are asking you to stay in costume after as moving decor, then what others have said. i think there were a couple of threads about the cost of being "wall paper" that you could apply the NYE pricing adjustment rules to.

I've seen this with quite a few restaurant owners. They like to feel that their place is fun and have the dancer want to stick around and schmooze with the customers. In this case changing out of costume in between sets or after your sets is okay with them and they want you to join the party, not be entertainment anymore. (usually where I'm from).

Other restaurant owners, however, are FINE with giving me my pay the second the clock hits my done time and I'm out the door.

As for it being a private party, if you're sticking around to be ambiance...well then charge for it. There was a recent thread on here for appropriate amounts. Most people think the can throw a 20 and a few drinks our way and that we're happy. I think I know a few dancers that would do it too...because they're desperate for gigs. And when they hear how much you actually charge they either find someone else or don't have a dancer....

oops sorry I got off topic. it boils my blood!!

Talked with the other dancer a little while ago for a little more clarification. It is one set per hour. So it isn't like you'd be changing into regular clothes the 40-45 minutes you wouldn't be dancing each hour to join the party. I guess you'd be hanging out in your caftan and shoveling your face with food and drink? I don't really get it. Never heard of such a thing.

$100 for 4 hours (4 sets within those hours) is a JOKE!!!! I would give them a proper price quote or not take the show at all. If you set that standard now it'll be hard to undo - and if you're a professional your time and talent is worth much more than that.

I charge double the regular rate for a show on Christmas/New Years, which means I make $400+ per show (25min set), anything less then that and I won't leave my holiday plans :P

Originally Posted by MellyBelly

$100 for 4 hours (4 sets within those hours) is a JOKE!!!! I would give them a proper price quote or not take the show at all. If you set that standard now it'll be hard to undo - and if you're a professional your time and talent is worth much more than that.

YES. This is how people get screwed. If each person makes an exception to the rules, even if they do it "just this once," it can have damaging effects on an entire community. Even though a lot of people just don't seem to give a flip anymore, somebody's got to stick up for fair pricing so we're not stuck in the bargain basement when the economy finally improves! *off soapbox*

Anonymous, I completely agree that $100 for 4 sets is ridiculous. If restaurant owners want to pry us away from our own New Year's festivities, there had better be something in it for us! ,r:;

New Year's eve is a huge night for restaurants, and I think a lot of owners don't know when the best time for a show will be. They'd ALL love to get a dancer to hang around all night for $100, but that's just ridiculous. The only places I bargain with are the ones that are loyal to me all year - and I still charge twice as much as they normally pay me. And since I'm usually very booked for that night, I have to be firm with the time. If a restaurant owner wanted to book me for four hours, they'd have to pay enough for me to not take anything else, and that would be a lot (at least $1000). If they were serious about paying only $100, I'd let them find someone else or not have a dancer. Hey, if I'm only making $100, I'd better have time to go out and party after my show... And THAT goes for any night, not just NYE!

Oh yeah, and when I do get a request like this, I give a quote for what they think they want, then offer something more "budget-friendly" (a normal show at a normal price). Sometimes I'll give them an option that falls somewhere between the two (like saying, "If one set isn't enough and four hours is not affordable, how about two 20-minute sets with a 15-minute break? I can do $400 for the first and $200 for the second."), and often that works out. Good luck!! Hopefully we'll all have a lucrative New Year's Eve this year. :)

Originally Posted by MellyBelly

$100 for 4 hours (4 sets within those hours) is a JOKE!!!! I would give them a proper price quote or not take the show at all. If you set that standard now it'll be hard to undo - and if you're a professional your time and talent is worth much more than that.

I charge double the regular rate for a show on Christmas/New Years, which means I make $400+ per show (25min set), anything less then that and I won't leave my holiday plans :P

Word.


First we have payed gas or other travel expenses to even *get to the gig*.

Then comes the makeup,nails,hair and costume jewellery to make us look the part.

After that we have our costume expenses.

Then comes what we pay for music in case we use a CD,OR split our tips with musicians.
(or Mp3 gadget)

THEN comes what we´ve invested in our education:classes&workshops...does 100$ still sound fair?

Originally Posted by emma-bessa

First we have payed gas or other travel expenses to even *get to the gig*.

And to add another layer of complexity to the equation, we have web design fees, business cards, Gigmasters, PartyPop and Google AdWords listings just to get the gig in the first place. Plus valuable billable hours spent working on said marketing materials ,r:;

Just the cost to attract our customers makes cheap gigs incredibly cost-prohibitive!

And to add another layer of complexity to the equation, we have web design fees, business cards, Gigmasters, PartyPop and Google AdWords listings just to get the gig in the first place. Plus valuable billable hours spent working on said marketing materials

Just the cost to attract our customers makes cheap gigs incredibly cost-prohibitive!

To be fair, many if not most really in-demand *restaurant* dancers don't incur those costs because they get most of their work through word of mouth. (And I'm not talking cheap dancers here, I'm talking about those with "the right stuff" who are sought after due to their skills, especially with live music, and warm dancer personality. Bands love working with good dancers and invite dancers to perform with them. Restaurant owners love dancers with that friendly down-home goodness and ability to put diners at their ease.)

But I agree, belly dancers should charge as much as they can reasonably get away with. I know restaurants run on TINY margins but if they can't afford a dancer they shouldn't have one as far as I'm concerned.

Restaurant dancers in my town are being offered less than restaurant dancers were getting 10 years ago now. It wasn't good money then, either... sigh.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

To be fair, many if not most really in-demand *restaurant* dancers don't incur those costs because they get most of their work through word of mouth. (And I'm not talking cheap dancers here, I'm talking about those with "the right stuff" who are sought after due to their skills, especially with live music, and warm dancer personality. Bands love working with good dancers and invite dancers to perform with them. Restaurant owners love dancers with that friendly down-home goodness and ability to put diners at their ease.)

Definitely. If you're constantly dancing in a restaurant, then that's one of the best forms of (free) advertising you can get. If we could all be so lucky, right?

Of course, in today's tough economic times, I'm seeing a lot of established venues either closing their doors, putting the kibosh on belly dance shows, or otherwise hiring students in lieu of pro's. Now that the restaurant gigs are drying up, I'd imagine a lot of dancers will look to other (unfortunately more expensive) ways to reach potential customers.

Sometimes, it blows me away to see these tiny brand-new restaurants that don't advertise, or have conspicuous street signs, or have much of a web presence at all, that can barely afford belly dancers but still insist on hiring them. I've turned down at least 4 potential jobs because the pay was ridiculous (we're talking, the $20/set kind of ridiculous, not "on the low end of the acceptable range" ridiculous). On the one hand, it's great to see that the overall interest is there. On the other hand, why even bother hiring entertainment? I don't exactly blame the Middle Eastern restaurant owners who forego the bells and whistles in favor of the basics - quality food, good service and advertising.

Times are tough for everyone, and we all must invest our time and money wisely.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

To be fair, many if not most really in-demand *restaurant* dancers don't incur those costs because they get most of their work through word of mouth. .

No;
I don´t have any promo material,no website and hardly have pictures of myself on Facebook Not even a business card,ehm..

On the other hand I´ll never done the resturant circuit or had more than 4-6 gigs a month;most of the lebanese resturant owners want dancers at least 10 years younger than me&at least 20 kilograms thinner.(But I rather dance less than those who can accept a lower fee,cause so much time goes into planning for a gig+getting there)

I think I can thank my teachers good names and support for most of my gigs:)

Originally Posted by anonymouss

That's the thing--I haven't done a holiday party in quite a few years. Turns out it is for two dancers, no mention of the number of sets and only (dumtek roll): $100 and food the whole night. Looks like too many undercutters and/or those who don't care what they get paid have ruined the market.

That is crazy. $100 is what you should make on a regular night if it is a regular gig in a restaurant. On NYE it's always double the going rate. For parties of course you would charge even more. You shouldn't make a dime less than $200 on NYE. You can really rake in the money if you can get more than one gig so most dancers will not stay hours at one party if they have the opportunity to do more shows.