Thread: Im SO pissed, DIVA issues

Ok So there is this "dancer" she has taken 2 years of classes and 2 years of dvds, She is 19 and a DIVA I recently told her she should come to my classes just to practive and she LAUGHED AT ME, what ever little DIVA......So this is what pisses me off a few months ago we did a charity event, There were all my students and "this dancer" we had a 45 min show so i needed as many dancers as i could get. I helped her make her costumes I did at least 50% of the work.....etc Well I just got an mass e mail from this person saying you dont want to miss this event, I wrote her and toled her congrats as well as a bit of information on the event. She wrote me back and said that SHE GOT THE SHOW becuse of the Charity EVENT I PUT HER IN, Some one "saw her" She didnt even ask if I would like to do it, or even say sheepeshly hey Some one asked just me to dance is it ok with you. We were trying to form a troup and at the Charity event was announced that WE were a troup, A photographer also aproched her and gues what THEY did a photo shoot WITH OUT US, now I know she is pretty little 19 year old and "they" want the little hard body....IM SO PISSES do you think im being irrational? Is she allowed to just do that, or do i live in a world where 19 year olds are respcetful and courteous.......OH and to top it off SHE ISNT GOING TO EVEN CHARGE

lalalalalalaaaaaaaa

let her have her moment. she'll disappear after her cheap thrill

relax, your "pissed", is what we are here for!
i had one of those....her name was yana....she flirted, bullied, wooed her self into 3 resturants, ...then got fired by all three.
my point? they are soo busy, promoting themselves,they do not learn!
..yana learned nothing about protocal, "house dancers". she thought i was nuts.....that she knew better...she no longer dances!
we have all had these people,....notice we are here, THEY are not!
z

Originally Posted by lenaregina

lalalalalalaaaaaaaa

let her have her moment. she'll disappear after her cheap thrill

I agree. Also remember that she's a teenager. Teens always think they know everything and deserve everything. She'll probably grow out of it. If not, not many people will put up with that attitude when she's an adult.

What comes around goes around.

Yes, I think you are being irrational.

Now, it sounds as though there are a couple of issues here:

- The 19 year old is not the best dancer int he world
- You have offered to help her to become a better dancer via classes and troupe participation
- You have in the past asked her to participate with your group in another gig which has lead her to having pther opportunities
- You feel that she should have turned these other opportunities over to you and your group because you were the one responsible for her coming to the attention of the people who hired her

Ummmm.....

Does the word free market mean anything?

While it would have been nice if she were to have clued you in on the gigs and photoshoot, she had no obligation to. She wasn't a member of your troupe or one of your students. So really, you can't be pissed at her for being diosloyal or disrespectful. A Diva, yes, but any of the other things, no.

You CAN be pissed at her for not charging for the gig she is doing, as this does negatively impact the community.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

Originally Posted by annwyn

Well I just got an mass e mail from this person saying you dont want to miss this event, I wrote her and toled her congrats as well as a bit of information on the event. She wrote me back and said that SHE GOT THE SHOW becuse of the Charity EVENT I PUT HER IN, Some one "saw her" She didnt even ask if I would like to do it, or even say sheepeshly hey Some one asked just me to dance is it ok with you.

Annwyn, its hard to follow what you've written, and you haven't really told us what kind of show/event it is that this dancer "got", so its difficult to comment on the situation. It sounds like she emailed you about the event, and you already knew about the event. So, were you competing with her to get the gig and she beat you out, or did she get a gig that you didn't even know about, which in retrospect makes you angry, or....?

Sedonia

Oh I knew nothing about the gig, and the mass e mail was something like....OH YOU ALL HAVE TO COME SEE ME! I wrote to her congratulation her, and asking about the gig (nice stuff and nice intentions) When I got the reply I got angry, At the charity even we were announced as a troup, and well shoot that is the direction I though we were going (work in progress) She demands and gets pissed when i dont let her dance in MY STUDENT SHOWS, then pulls stuff like OH THEY SAW ME AT (NAME OF SHOW)(that I let her participate in with m students wearing the 3 cotumes I practaly made for free, thinking that she would be part of my troup so it was an investment, At least that is what she lead me to believe) and asken ME to dance, didnt even consider that it would hurt my, my students, or anyone elses feelings, or even being courteous to try to get us all in the the venue.....I guess i just operate differently, I think as a group, ie at event X i get aproched to dance at event Z then all the dancers at event X should get the opportunity for event Z......Im Crazy?

In bellydance, as in all things, there are takers. Just don't let yourself be taken for a ride again.

Originally Posted by maliam

What comes around goes around.

Very true. Karma has a funny way of working. We have one or two big time DIVAs here and it's best to walk away from their craziness. It won't do you any good to obsess as they live in a non-reality world and you'll end up stressing out. They aren't worth your time/energy. Focus on the positives of your dance path my sweets

So ok....if I'm following right....this chick was asked to dance at some gig ....she was asked at a gig that you all were dancing at? As a group? Did she get this gig as a soloist? Is it possible they wanted just her for their own reasons? Am I following this right?

Regardless...........she wants her 30 seconds of "look at me!" The cheap thrill will wear off. Always does.

LenaRegina Yes that is right.......

Is it wrong that Im pissed becuse she didnt include the rest of us.....

Originally Posted by annwyn

LenaRegina Yes that is right.......

Is it wrong that Im pissed becuse she didnt include the rest of us.....

Yes, I think it is.

First of all, for all you know, the party that hired little miss Diva may have only wanted to hire one dancer. (OK "hire" isn't the right word here if she's not getting paid) Maybe they only wanted her specifically because she's young and cute and they don't care whether she can dance or not. Be mad at the client, not her, they chose to seek her out specifically over you.

Second, thinking that you were sorta' kinda' moving in the somewhat general direction of having a troupe is not the same as actually forming a troupe with explicit, specific, written rules about how troupe members handle gigs. Why would you assume that she would have the same ideas about handling the situation as you, if it hadn't explicitly been discussed? My *student* performing group has to sign a long list of performing ethics and rules before performing, and the rules include an agreement not to undercut the private sector market. A dancer can be the group, or be an undercutter, but they can't do both.

Third, why would you want this person in your troupe when you finally do form a troupe, given what you already knew about her before the gig incident even came up?

Sedonia

I think you are overreacting. While you may not be happy that she is doing this show without you, I don't think she was obligated to ask you. All you can do is stay professional and hopefully between you both you can create more opportunities for dance for everyone. Not every dancer is right for every event. That's just the way it is even though we may not be happy about it. Sorry your feelings are hurt. She sounds a bit immature but that's what you sometimes get at 19. ;)

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, if this person gets your stress levels up (and its hard to tell sometimes here on buzz, as people may come to have a wee rant, then get on with life minus stress), you need to avoid inviting them into your life. Doesn't need to be dramatic, when two choices present themselves her or something else, pick the something else. I also agree with the other post saying you need some detailed troupe rules.

Originally Posted by annwyn

(that I let her participate in with m students wearing the 3 cotumes I practaly made for free, thinking that she would be part of my troup so it was an investment, At least that is what she lead me to believe)

And there you go...unless you have a written contract then there was never any such agreement...

I know your heart is in the right place but you willingly gave up time and effort to assist her EXPECTING something in return...and you can't do it that way - give up time and effort if you want to do it for the sake of doing it, but if not then business is business - charge for time and effort for these things.


Sound harsh I know.

But what is all this about 19 year olds being babies these days?

At 19, I had been earning a living for 2 years and was engaged to be married! Even if I couldn't vote and my husband had to ask my father for permission to marry me, I was still very much in an adult world and acted like one..I hope!
I recently had to phone a dancer about a place in a show. Her mobile phone had a childish and abusive message on it...ah said a friend well she's only 22..<GULP> only..isn't THAT grown up then?

Well I suppose if they act peevish and childish treat 'em as such.

i dont agree.
if i invite dancers to a gig, where i am the main organiser, and i booked the other dancers, i'm kind of the agent right, it wouldnt do for them to hand out their own business card at that event then.
but (thanks tracey!) i need to start spelling that out, and not just expect for people to know that. it already says so in my troupe contract, and i think i'll spell it out with externals too

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Yes, I think you are being irrational.

Now, it sounds as though there are a couple of issues here:

- The 19 year old is not the best dancer int he world
- You have offered to help her to become a better dancer via classes and troupe participation
- You have in the past asked her to participate with your group in another gig which has lead her to having pther opportunities
- You feel that she should have turned these other opportunities over to you and your group because you were the one responsible for her coming to the attention of the people who hired her

Ummmm.....

Does the word free market mean anything?

While it would have been nice if she were to have clued you in on the gigs and photoshoot, she had no obligation to. She wasn't a member of your troupe or one of your students. So really, you can't be pissed at her for being diosloyal or disrespectful. A Diva, yes, but any of the other things, no.

You CAN be pissed at her for not charging for the gig she is doing, as this does negatively impact the community.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

I think it's normally practice to not give your own details out to a prospect if someone else found you the gig. But in this case I'm getting the impression the 19 year old did you the favour of doing the original charity gig for free, that you asked her to do the gig?

So that would mean it's fair for her to get flow on work from an unpaid gig that she was doing as a favour.

Well i guess im not pissed, it was just more of a rant, Im over it now, But man this morning it pissed me off. I think I mut live in a fantasy world where people are Nice and care about other people.....Oh well Life goes on

Originally Posted by lizajuk

But what is all this about 19 year olds being babies these days?

Okay, veering slightly off-topic, but.....

I do agree that some of today's youth are snot-nosed brats, but I have to rise up in defense of my younger ladies. I have a 17 and 19 year old in my student troupe and there's no diva complex there.... they work hard and are grateful for where they are. In fact, the 19 year old is training to be in my pro troupe. I wanted to train her when she was 17, but we travel a lot and don't want to be responsible for a minor in another state. I have another 17 year old in my intermediate class who also works her butt off.

Just sayin' the youngsters aren't all bad!!

No they are not all bad I actually have a class where 3 teens 13, 14 and 16 attend 2 of the 3 are VERY mature and will eventually be really good dancers if they work like they have been!

Hmm... tricky issue with an argument to be had on either side.

Whatever the case, the girl sounds like more of a headache than anything else and if it were me, I simply wouldn't work with her again. As for the show in question - do you really want it anyway? They're not paying. Keep your chin up and surround yourself with positive people.

Neither she or the show in question are worth the frustration.

this is exactly why i dont do anything for anyone unless i really want to. if i expect something back then i don't do it. i would have never helped her make a costume. she had already shown you she was a diva. and i agree let her take the free crap gigs.
i dont know all the rules but i hear this kind of stuff all the time.
i would not hand out my card at an gig someone else got me. but if a client came up and inquired about me i'd give them my card and let the organizer know that i had been asked about a job.
i guess it's tricky. you don't want to turn down a job but u don't want it to seem like you are stealing their gigs.
but in this girls case i don't think she cared.
her being 19 might have nothing to do with it. i know old dancers with no professional morals.

I was already married at 20 so I don't think a persons age reflects their maturity level. I know some 40 year olds who act like juvenile delinquints.

I was married at 21, and at 19-20 I was working 40 hrs, and going to school at a university for 21 credit hours and on line for 4, plus dancing 2 times a week, Maybe that is why I am so irrated She is married but just sits at home being a diva, NO JOB....well other than being a PROFESSIONAL BELLY DANCER. UGGG IRRITAION Im over the situation now im just irritated by her....Lesson Learned again

Annwyn, I think you're human like the rest of us. I'd probably been pissed off, too! It's just normal for us humans to react ;-)

Thanks! .w.: ..l;,

I'm not sure why you are taking this so personally.

I think I can guess why - I've seen it happen before.

BDer X meets enthusiastic BellyBunny Y and takes her under her wing to help her improve. BDer X puts far too much energy into BellyBunny Y. BellyBunny Y accepts BDer X's help when and where it suits (especially if it involves costuming and/or cash and/or gigs) but is secretly wild and crazy and out of control. BellyBunny Y might even become friends with BDer X. BellyBunny Y does stupid things, treats BDer X badly, drives BDer X mad. Eventually, BellyBunnyX steals a gig of BDer X's/runs off with half BDer X's students/just generally takes what she got from BDer X without so much as a thank you and absconds. BDer X is upset and weeps "after all I have done for her!" BDer X's therapist says "I told you you were codependent! Now stop helping these people and start looking out for yourself!"

I guess. Rather than worry about this girl, I say, focus on your own development and your troupe development.