Thread: Restaurant Gigs

I've been dealing with a restaurant owner for a few months now, trying to keep the gig at a decent price. He loves my dancing and has always treated me well. However, he's been calling other restaurants in the area and telling me, "They have really, really great dancers and only get paid $40 for two shows". I find that difficult to believe. The restaurant is in Claremont, California. So I would really appreciate it if anybody has danced or is presently dancing in that area and what their rate has been. I have been charging $85 for two 20 minute shows, changing costumes, etc. (Which is lower than my original offer.) He has asked me to find some students for $50 so I agreed to bring a few students with me. We will dance together which is great. I love to help out students. However, I pay my students $35 and I keep $50. The plan was that when they go alone, they get paid $50. He doesn't want be to send two students, either. Now, he wants two dancers all the time but doesn't want to pay any more money. If I am always bringing with me students, I only get paid $50.

If anyone has any input or can tell me if this price is reasonable for the area I'd truly appreciate it. I am helping him out and I'm happy to do that, but don't want to undercut myself. I love dancing, but restaurant gigs can be a real pain in the mol-asses! .w.:

Unfortunately, I think you have already undercut yourself. You were getting $85, now he will only pay $85 for you plus one student that you agreed to bring in the first place.

I'm not sure what to do now except to try to grind the ratchet backwards, dig your heals in and tell him $85 or nothing. But then he will go and offer your students $50, $40, or less. What you need to do is get all of your students, and any other dancers in town, to stand with you on pricing. If they will do that, you could make the guy a deal where *once* per month (or two months, or whatever), you will bring a student and split the pay with her. That way you still get to train your performance ready students. However, once they get good enough, they need to get a full wage themselves.

It is amazing how quickly dancers wages move backwards, and how slowly and painfully they move forwards.

Sedonia

that's what happens when dancers at other restaurants dance for cheap.....
the owners talk, and anyone who thinks they don't are fooling themselves.

edited to add, I've had restaurants ask for students, I say, sorry, I don't bring students to restaurants, Only professionals. I'm not a pimp.......They want to pay as little as possible for a body in a costume.

The restaurants just want students because most times the GP knows no better, then they get to see student dancers, a body in a costume, and you really are not doing your students any good.
and the restaurant gets a body in a costume for cheap, and then they'll only want that, never pay what the professionals are worth, etc. etc. it's a disaster all around.

That's what student nights and haflas are for, getting the experience to go out there on a professional level....

Restaurants need to understand that they have to pay for quality dancers....

sorry to sound like such a hard-a** on this, but i've seen it happen over and over and over......

Ohhhh,,,, let me not forget! Here's a story for you all.
I was doing student nights at a restaurant I was dancing at forever.....
I was doing them maybe every 3 months or so. They were a huge success, the restaurant did a buffet, etc. etc.
Well, they decided, in their infinite wisdom, to ask me to have my students dance every MOnday night FOR FREE just FOR TIPS and they would do a buffet.
I said, ABSOLUTELY no way....
How would you like it if we decided to get in students from the cooking school every Tuesday night FOR FREE, just FOR KITCHEN TIPS,
you would be out of a job, there would be students cooking the food, and all the training and professionalism you put into your job would be thrown out the window.
Them: "Oh, you got a point"
I was so upset for weeks and weeks.
I then started doing a student night there just once a year.....
Signed,
"still fuming about it"

Originally Posted by Maryon

I've been dealing with a restaurant owner for a few months now, trying to keep the gig at a decent price. He loves my dancing and has always treated me well. However, he's been calling other restaurants in the area and telling me, "They have really, really great dancers and only get paid $40 for two shows". I find that difficult to believe. The restaurant is in Claremont, California. So I would really appreciate it if anybody has danced or is presently dancing in that area and what their rate has been. I have been charging $85 for two 20 minute shows, changing costumes, etc. (Which is lower than my original offer.) He has asked me to find some students for $50 so I agreed to bring a few students with me. We will dance together which is great. I love to help out students. However, I pay my students $35 and I keep $50. The plan was that when they go alone, they get paid $50. He doesn't want be to send two students, either. Now, he wants two dancers all the time but doesn't want to pay any more money. If I am always bringing with me students, I only get paid $50.

If anyone has any input or can tell me if this price is reasonable for the area I'd truly appreciate it. I am helping him out and I'm happy to do that, but don't want to undercut myself. I love dancing, but restaurant gigs can be a real pain in the mol-asses! .w.:

Why did you agree to pay your students out of your own money? Why didn't he pay your $85 PLUS another $50 for your students?

You paid your students OUT OF YOUR OWN MONEY!
Oh my God, please do not do that anymore........value yourself.
the restaurants will take horrible advantage of you.
You have to treat it like a business.
Do companies pay regular employees out of their own paycheck?

If the owner wants two dancers, he needs to pay for two dancers. He wouldn't expect to add a member to his waitstaff and have the waiters split their wages so that insteatd of one of them making $2.15 an hour two would make $1.08 each? How long do you think that would last?

{{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

If the owner wants two dancers, he needs to pay for two dancers. He wouldn't expect to add a member to his waitstaff and have the waiters split their wages so that insteatd of one of them making $2.15 an hour two would make $1.08 each? How long do you think that would last?

{{{{HUGS}}}

EXACTLY!!!!
If you put things in terms that are more personal to their experience, then they 'get it'.

In my experience, always slightly overvalue yourself because everyone who is hiring you will want to pay you as little as possible. Good advice above. Don't lower your price at all.

I am also so tired of restaurants..
I also did the same here I started bringing students, I would charge $100 and the students $50, but I never payed anybody from my pocket!! Never do that again!! My students started to dance for longer, staying up to 1am!!! I got so mad at them, and at the owner. But what can we do, if there are dancers willing to so anything for a spot to dance?
I say: don't lower you price! This is what I did. I told my students I didn;t agree with what was happening, but if that was OK for them, them I was steping out of the gig, and I did. I told them to charge more, and they say we are still students... which is not true anybody dancing for more than 1 year in a paid gig is not a "student" anymore.
My students stay there, I have a good relationship with them, but I just don't do that anymore!! My gig is my gig and I'll share only with another professional dancers!
My students can dance at my haflehs, recitals.. and I say to everyone if you are going to charge you have to charge same as everyone else...but they don't!
Well, what I learned is that some restaurant onwers, really just want someone there in any belly dance costume dancing, they don't care about quality as long as its cheap for them!! I don't lower my price and i don't care loosing gigs, there is always tomorrow, and I made my classes my priority!
Keep your head up and don't lower your price, sooner or later they (the clients) notice the diference.

I also learned that is Ok to charge more, but never less!
Good luck!

that's why i swore off dancing at restaurants entirely...and then i had nowhere to dance ..cr.: so now i dance at a restaurant (thanks maria) that pays a decent wage, but am wary about approaching restaurants who don't have dancers already. i haven't ventured to do that yet but am reconsidering as there are no places to dance here...we have to drive to the nearest city. my experience is taht they will sweet talk you and tell you how great you are, and in the same breath say they can't afford to pay more...so don't have dancers until your restaurant can handle the wage. i got sick of the same old owner type, same guy different name, ahmed, mohammed, fred (yeah fred hehe), ya know, they must have a monthly meeting to come up with exactly the same smooth talk. ahhh, i just got so tired of it, and then being treated like crap during your gigs (i haven't had that experience here yet, but there were a lot of mean and disrespectful types in my past). i think i'm babbling, anyway, just saying i feel your pain!!! hang in there, and don't take less!!!

Originally Posted by vivi

I am also so tired of restaurants..
I also did the same here I started bringing students, I would charge $100 and the students $50, but I never payed anybody from my pocket!! Never do that again!! My students started to dance for longer, staying up to 1am!!! I got so mad at them, and at the owner. But what can we do, if there are dancers willing to so anything for a spot to dance?
I say: don't lower you price! This is what I did. I told my students I didn;t agree with what was happening, but if there was OK for them, them I was steping out of the gig, and I did. My students stay there, I have a good relationship with them, but I just don't do that anymore!! My gig is my gig and I'll share only with another professional dancer!
My students can dance at my haflehs, recitals..
Well, what I learned is that some restaurant onwers, really just want someone there in any belly dance costume dancing, they don't care about quality as long as its cheap for them!! I don't lower my price and i don't care loosing gigs, there is always tomorrow, and I made my classes my priority!
Keep your head up and don't lower your price, sooner or later they (the clients) notice the diference.
Good luck!

Oh and another thing:
The only reason I invited students to dance there it was because there were NO professional dancers in this town!! I came here 4 years ago and started the belly dance bhuz in this college town, so the dancers that are here today all started with me. So they feel like they are eternal students or for respect to my person, and don't want to charge the same as I do...in another scenarion I would invite professional dancers...

Originally Posted by *maria*

that's what happens when dancers at other restaurants dance for cheap.....
the owners talk, and anyone who thinks they don't are fooling themselves.

edited to add, I've had restaurants ask for students, I say, sorry, I don't bring students to restaurants, Only professionals. I'm not a pimp.......They want to pay as little as possible for a body in a costume.

The restaurants just want students because most times the GP knows no better, then they get to see student dancers, a body in a costume, and you really are not doing your students any good.
and the restaurant gets a body in a costume for cheap, and then they'll only want that, never pay what the professionals are worth, etc. etc. it's a disaster all around.

That's what student nights and haflas are for, getting the experience to go out there on a professional level....

Restaurants need to understand that they have to pay for quality dancers....

sorry to sound like such a hard-a** on this, but i've seen it happen over and over and over......

Ohhhh,,,, let me not forget! Here's a story for you all.
I was doing student nights at a restaurant I was dancing at forever.....
I was doing them maybe every 3 months or so. They were a huge success, the restaurant did a buffet, etc. etc.
Well, they decided, in their infinite wisdom, to ask me to have my students dance every MOnday night FOR FREE just FOR TIPS and they would do a buffet.
I said, ABSOLUTELY no way....
How would you like it if we decided to get in students from the cooking school every Tuesday night FOR FREE, just FOR KITCHEN TIPS,
you would be out of a job, there would be students cooking the food, and all the training and professionalism you put into your job would be thrown out the window.
Them: "Oh, you got a point"
I was so upset for weeks and weeks.
I then started doing a student night there just once a year.....
Signed,
"still fuming about it"

Maria,

Thank you SO MUCH for saying what you did. We have a horrible problem here in DC where instructors and studios pimp out their students at special prices that horribly undercut professionals. It is true that most restaurants are satisfied with a body in a costume, which makes real dancers obsolete. It is a sad fact, but it is despicable that a studio would use that as a business model.

Maryon---You know you're worth way more than that! And it's wonderful that you think of your students, but it would probably be better for them if you just organized a separate student night instead of cutting into your own pay.

...there's the same problem up in Baltimore with not one, but two schools/teachers.
Providing performance opportunities for students that still supports the dance community is possible. There is not need to lower the rates for everyone.
Haflas, charities, retirement homes, special student nights (not on a usual dancer night) etc etc etc.

Seems like there's one in every town. We have one here who consistently has undercut rates both for restaurants and for parties. A friend of mine was just UNhired from a wedding she had quoted at $200 because this person was willing to send three dancers for $100/dancer. They asked my friend if she could match that price, and of course she said she couldn't/wouldn't, so she lost the gig to the cheaper dancers.

It's nice to be everywhere and be hired for everything, I guess, but I have to wonder - how does it feel to know that you're (rhetorical) working twice as hard for the half the money?

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Seems like there's one in every town. We have one here who consistently has undercut rates both for restaurants and for parties. A friend of mine was just UNhired from a wedding she had quoted at $200 because this person was willing to send three dancers for $100/dancer. They asked my friend if she could match that price, and of course she said she couldn't/wouldn't, so she lost the gig to the cheaper dancers.

It's nice to be everywhere and be hired for everything, I guess, but I have to wonder - how does it feel to know that you're (rhetorical) working twice as hard for the half the money?

I hope your friend took a deposit and kept it!

Originally Posted by *maria*

I hope your friend took a deposit and kept it!

Hah! That would have been great, but no, I don't think it ever got to that point.

I just Fume about that.......
I just got a gig for an event that the dancer, who cancelled twice on them, was charging 1/3 of what I usually charge for same kind of event.
The person who called me balked, and I said, sorry, that's what I charge.
So, we compromised, I am only dancing for 1/2 the amount of time she wanted originally, and I am being paid my normal rate for that amount of time.
Gotta go fluff & buff for a gig right now.......

I learned my lesson about taking deposits, I always take them now, and if they cancel, I keep the deposit......
no exceptions.

[/QUOTE]Maria,

Thank you SO MUCH for saying what you did. We have a horrible problem here in DC where instructors and studios pimp out their students at special prices that horribly undercut professionals. It is true that most restaurants are satisfied with a body in a costume, which makes real dancers obsolete. It is a sad fact, but it is despicable that a studio would use that as a business model.

Maryon---You know you're worth way more than that! And it's wonderful that you think of your students, but it would probably be better for them if you just organized a separate student night instead of cutting into your own pay.[/QUOTE]
**************************************************

You are totally welcome. I cannot stand that they (owners) think - because I'm a teacher in town - and have lots of students - that I'm some kind of pimp that's going to send out the cutest and boob-iest in a costume so they can pay them next to nothing, cause they don't want to pay the professional's rate.

It does nothing for our art.......doesn't advance it in the GP's eyes, doesnt' make us look good at all.......

Arghhhh........................................... .............,m::

(you can tell this issue really gets under my skin)

A HUGE HUG TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED!!!!! and thank you to Bhuz.com for this forum where I needed to go and get the confidence and feed back that I needed. I never realized how common this situation is and when I thought I was doing my students a great service, I am getting the short end of the deal. The next time I am at the restaurant, I will speak with the owner and tell him that the fee remains $85 for professional dancers only, and maybe I can work out a student show every few months or so. You are right, they just want a pretty girl in a costume for cheap. I'm not going to do it - thank you all again for your wonderful support and great wisdome. God's blessings to you all!

Good luck, Maryon!

Is $85 the standard rate in your area?

Some dancers get a little more, some a little less for two shows. I believe they get more in the L.A. area, but not quite sure how much.

Maryon,

I've heard of places paying only about $35 for a dancer. Not sure if that's really true, but dancers will take less money for experience. Whether or not that's right of course is something a dancer has to deal with in terms of her own conscience within the community.

Zahra Zuhair and Jenna used to have a Yahoo group focused on fair rates for local dancers. Claremont is in LA County, right? ,r:;

You should email either of them and check out their group. I checked out of the list some time ago as I don't dance professionally, but I think it's still going.

Wow...sounds like it's becoming the norm....all resturants pay cheap, huh? Every rest. I've been to, to see dancers, had VERY mediocre performers. They just want to pacify the clientel with an embience. Face it, MOST clientel at a rest. wouldn't know their nose from their elbow, all they'll see is a swishy, glittery costume undulating...so the owners get away with just that...paying a swishy undulating costume...doesn't matter what talent is within it or how deep the passion of dance is within the dancer herself. So, real dancers get undercut by other dancers who are happy taking less than half the pay to merely take up space.
Cripes...just buy a remote control mannequin, throw some sequins on it and make it rotate now and then...the crowd will cheer.

i'm out by claremont & i wouldn't be surprised. DISCLAIMER; i have no idea who/what is involved.

there is not alot of work "out here" & nobody wants to pay much.

as for California rates if i re-call they were the lowest in the nation last time this was discussed. i think this surprises people but the reality is you got a bder practically everywhere you look. tons of open showcase etc. restaurant owners just figure if they keep calling they'll find cheap or free.

i was called recently by a local restaurant & quoted them a low LA price. after all i'm in da boonies. i was firm it was a 2 set minimum ,cash up front etc. & they got pissy & i didn't get the gig. oh & this was over the holidays too.

there is now somebody calling themself TINA working there. no i'm not kidding. tina

It's true. Everyone and their mother, sister, and second cousin own a hip scarf in California. So there are a lot of women with higher aspirations--restaurants, parties, etc.