Thread: Facebook...you sell my information and you are kind of creepy...why shouldn't I break up with you?

Okay, I will admit I never liked the idea of Facebook from the beginning. I am just not the kind of person who enjoys online social networking. Gathering random "friends" just so I can spend hours staring at the computer reading info about these people's days-not my cup of tea. Of course everyone told me I NEEDED a Facebook account, how could I not? I always politely said "not for me" or "let's talk or actually hang out in person!" But then I kept hearing all this hype about online networking being sooo important for business, blah blah blah, fan base blah blah blah, connections blah blah blah. So just over a year ago I decided to start a Fan page and the results have frankly been not worth the effort. At this point I feel like this relationship isn't going anywhere, and I want to break up.
My question for Bhuzzers...Should I stay? Has anyone ever received significant amounts of gigs by having a Fanpage? And by significant, I mean enough money to convince me to stay with a company that blatantly sells people's info, keep the rights to their pictures, is merging with other companies in a way that I am not comfortable with, and that will soon be too big for its britches.

To be fair, I have never used my page like I should. I haven't got a clue as to what I should be posting, outside of new videos and pictures. Cute daily comments? Not my thing-what in the world would I talk about? I never film as often as I want, and now my camera appears to have finally died. And while it is gratifying that I have more fans than friends on my personal page, who actually cares? I have never gotten a gig from this, so does it matter if half of the Pakistani male population sees me on the internet? I might be willing to change my mind and go Facebook fanpage crazy if I thought this was going to bring me actual money. But other than that I don't think customers care if I have a fan page-my videos, pics, and info are on my website and there really isn't anything different on the fan page.

Curios to hear if there is a reason to stay or if I should just get off this over crowded train before it crashes

I don't have a fan page and don't know anyone who has made money either... other than the dude who owns FB.

I was on there before and got some creepy people who stalked me and that alone made me delete my profile. Now I'm on again because it's the ONLY way to connect to friends and family, and that alone is really sad.

And the gathering of friends, it reminds me of high school. There's no scrutinizing the people who my friends befriend. It's scary because they can see everything that you put on your wall and things you "like". You don't even KNOW these people and you are letting them in your world. That's what scares me.

I find myself spending clumps of minutes throughout the day looking at FB instead of doing things I really need to do. It just keeps people more isolated and there's no privacy, no matter what privacy controls say. FB knows pretty much everything about you and sells that information to advertisers. Much like Google.

I find FaceBook to not even be user friendly. Half the time I can't find my friends list. A few months back I changed my settings to sign me out at the end of my session on FB so that I would still be signed out even on those ocassions I'd forgotten to actively sign out. Even so, often I'd come back to FaceBook the next time to find that somehow I was still signed in from the previous session. I kept going into my settings to change this, but it still stayed the same for quite a while. That was enough for me to consider leaving FB.

I have lots of issues with all the Facebook privacy policies and such, but I still can't seem to live without it in terms of business. It's been a phenomenal way for me to promote the Vegas Intensive. I have nearly 3000 fans now from all over the world. For me, it's a numbers game. Fans are fans...but I have to convert those fans to registrations for it to be successful. So I've put a lot of work into my page. I've customized it, added an email subscription application, and post updates and fun stuff regularly.

Facebook lets me track the impressions I get for every posting. The more active I am on facebook & other social networking sites, the more people recognize my event. The more people recognize my event, the more likely they are to sign up. I see a direct relationship between my activity level online and the registrations I receive.

It's probably not for everyone. But there are so many people who use it, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want that presence.

I'm completely thrilled that Bhuz is now so FB friendly. It's even more useful from a marketing perspective.

I do not have a fan page, but have "likes" for my favorite dancers, and vendors..I get to find out where the workshops are , and when the sales are ( just purchased a large cache from Sharifwear). You can block the tons of friends, and don't feel you have to post cute stuff daily---these are the people that want to support you where & when you dance--workshops available, and shows you attend..

My facebook presence includes:

1) A personal account under my real-life name on which the ONLY people I'll accept friend invitations from are those whom I actually know in real life and feel a connection to. On that account, I've declined friend requests from people who worked at the same employers as me but whom I don't actually remember interacting with at the time, and I've declined friend requests from people in my home town whom I'd rather not interact with. So, EVERYBODY in that friends list is someone whose face I remember and with whom I have memories.

2) A personal account under my dance name. On this one, I accept friend requests from people whose profiles indicate that they are belly dancers even if I don't actually know who they are. I MIGHT accept the occasional non-dancer (such as a musician) as a friend, but not always. It depends. If I know them I will. If I don't know them, maybe not. My logic is that there are a lot of people who appreciate my Shira.net web site and want to be linked to me for that reason. On this one, sometimes I post stuff about my day-to-day dance activities (for example, the fact that my spring session of classes just started), and sometimes I post stuff that's a little more personal such as a picture of my cat with a comment about something cute he did. I'm very thoughtful about what I post under this identity because I realize that people who have never met me are seeing it. I post stuff that's intended to serve as relationship-building, to help people feel more connected to me.

3) My fan page. The purpose of this is marketing my web site and myself as a workshop instructor. I use this to announce new or updated articles on Shira.net. I sometimes post dance tips or interesting quotations about dance. In between all the "interesting reading" posts, I'll insert announcements and reminders about workshops I'll be teaching, linking when applicable to event pages set up by my sponsors.

If you don't care to promote yourself as a workshop instructor the way I do, then you might consider using your fan page to promote your local public performances (restaurants, festivals, etc.), your availability for performing gigs, and your classes. For example, you could set up "Events" announcing your upcoming classes and public gigs. You could post "Notes" with descriptions of the types of performance gigs you offer - one each for bridal showers, baby showers, weddings, etc. After a gig, you could post a comment about how much fun it was doing it. I don't choose to do that on my page, but a dancer looking for local gigs certainly could.

I have a personal page and a fan page- on the personal account, I only accept people I actually know and want to interact with. I tried doing a separate dance & personal page, but there was too much overlap and I kept getting friend requests from dancers on my personal page anyway, so I let go of the second account.
I love having dancers on my personal account- this is how I keep up with a lot of local events, see all the pictures people take of community events, find out about sales, etc. I find it really helpful- I usually post something or other a couple times a week.
My fan page is where I post class reminders, upcoming performances & community events I am involved in. That way my family & non-dance friends don't get spammed with business stuff.

You can also adjust your account settings to be more or less private, so you do have some level of control over who sees what (friends only vs. everyone)

I agree in this and and age, that "social networking" is a good way to promote yourself (and costs nothing except time compared to getting expensive brochures printed for example).

My problem with Facebook is that they keep changing the way they operate. They change the layout, and they way information is shared. I just found out that Facebook recently changed (again) so that you only see the wall posts of the people you have actively interacted with in the last 3 weeks. This means when promoting a business event, you are actually invisible to a large percentage of your "friends" or "fans". To rectify what you see (but won't change what they see) click on the little arrow next to "recent posts" and change to "see all". Well at least it keeps you on your toes keeping up!

Does anyone else find Facebook a black hole of time? I go on, and suddenly time has passed and I have done nothing useful!

Soft shimmy sigh,
Charni
Belly Dance Lessons Online - Home

Originally Posted by Charni

Does anyone else find Facebook a black hole of time? I go on, and suddenly time has passed and I have done nothing useful!

Soft shimmy sigh,
Charni
Belly Dance Lessons Online - Home

I get very frustrated with all the changes too.
And I seriously have to set myself a timer (for both bhuz and facebook!) and I close down my browser when I am done, so I have to really think before I log on, rather than just checking in when I'm walking by the computer (or looking for an excuse to go upstairs & check!)

One more time:

FaceBook, MySpace, etc are great if your 17 years old - not so much otherwise. You get what you ask for...

So just say NO!

Originally Posted by zorba

One more time:

FaceBook, MySpace, etc are great if your 17 years old - not so much otherwise. You get what you ask for...

So just say NO!

No need to be insulting! I'm 33 & not ashamed to say I like using it, as do my other reasonable, mature, adult friends. So you don't like it- doesn't mean you have to insult those who find it useful.

From a business perspective, here is what the website CMO.com has to say about it:

Customer communication: Good
A central and open communication portal, Facebook is the hub through which businesses want to drive social interaction. Positive or negative, companies can use Facebook to get their messages out and to receive customer feedback.

Brand exposure: Good
Using pages as a persona allows companies to position their brands on other relevant pages. For example, Starbucks' page itself can now post on large coffee-lovers' pages.

Traffic to your site: Okay
For many Web sites, Facebook has emerged as one of the top traffic sources. While the "viral potential" is lower on Facebook than others, nothing is more consistent at driving a steady flow of traffic to every message or post.

SEO: Bad
Google and Bing have both indicated that they are using "social
signals" as part of their ranking algorithms, pointing to Facebook
and Twitter, in particular. While the links themselves are “no-follow," the search benefits exist, especially in instances where "Query Deserves Freshness."

Link: http://www.cmo.com/sites/default/fil...dscape2011.pdf

Side note: Youtube is one of the BEST!?!? Get your videos up there ladies!

Thanks for the posts and opinions, too much for me to reply to individually, so here are my thoughts and why I am definitely leaving-
I haven’t had any creepy incidents, although recently I did have an ex from 12 years ago (!) who wanted to “friend” me. I don’t even use my real name on my personal page, but he saw my avatar picture on a friend’s page and recognized me. We lived in a small Texas town, so I’m fairly grateful that I haven’t received more requests of that nature! Like Jaseena said, it is sort of like high school, seeing all your friends of friends. But seeing profile pictures makes me grateful that dancing has helped me age more gracefully than a significant number of my classmates! But I do find Facebook to be a huge time sucker. Because of the weird “last 3 weeks interactions” thing I have to hunt through my friends and actually visit all their pages individually to see updates. And because everyone on there is an actual friend I want to take the time to do so.
When Samira asked why I wouldn’t want the exposure I thought about it and realized it simply isn’t worth the effort at my level. I think brand recognition is super important for a large event or corporation, but I am neither of those. Getting to 3000 fans would be amazing but virtually impossible for a single dancer with localized ambitions. I do not wish to become an international star. I have a daughter soon to be entering her teen years, and she is my priority. The busy schedule of a dance star would take time and attention from her that I don’t want to give and by the time she is grown I will have aged out of the “superstar” category. So I truly am only interested in local gigs, teaching, and electronic media, although occasional traveling to teach workshops would be really great. It takes a lot of work to get huge amounts of fans, which makes sense when you are expecting big pay offs from a big event or business where you sell a shippable product. So while I do seem to get a lot of work in Colorado Springs (1 plus change away), so far I have been hired locally only. Most of my Facebook fans are from other countries, which is great, except that I am not likely to be available for their events in the near future =) So logically it seems I should concentrate my efforts on local advertising, building SEO for my actual website, etc. rather than putting effort in to the national/international scene.

I am also in a rather odd position right now. I am moving to Portland, Oregon at the end of May. My husband is already there, so I am stuck moving the whole house by myself! In order to get ready for all the things that need to be done before the move, I have closed my dance studio. I have no idea what will happen when we get to Portland. I won’t have seen my husband for 3 months, my daughter will be out of school for 4 months with no friends in the area (we get out earlier than they do, so she gets extra long vacation) and we will be in a new exciting place. Sadly, this means I will probably take the summer off (boo!!) T the thought of taking the summer off kills me, but I am basically in charge of making sure everyone adjusts to the new place, cause I don’t want to move back here =) Portland is overflowing with dancers, so I won’t likely have a restaurant gig, and I won’t have a studio, so no workshops. This seems like it will be a long dead time for my Facebook page as I work to get established in the area and who even knows what private gigs will be like. Frankly, I will be trying to spend as little time online as possible so I can focus on the real world.
If Facebook were a talent agency, I would absolutely not align myself with them. I do not like the way they practice business, and I constantly hear people saying “I wish there was an alternative to go to”. People often seem obligated to be there because so many others are already on. I work very hard to make sure my online business persona is professional, courteous, and welcoming-never high pressure or shady. I prefer to work with people and companies who also do so. Facebook kind of makes me think of a scummy bookie working in a back room somewhere-you don’t want to see him, but you also don’t want to stop gambling! After all this talk I decided I would prefer to put my business elsewhere. It does matter to Facebook if one person leaves, but it matters to me that I “work with” companies that do not make me uncomfortable. Tomorrow I will message my fans and tell them to subscribe to me on my YouTube channel, sign up for my email list, or keep an eye on my website. I am closing down my personal page and Fanpage, then I can use all that extra time here on Bhuz instead. My fellow Bhuzzers provide me with valuable information, humor, beautiful costumes, and advice-you all deserve my time more! Thanks!

Reyveka

I have a Facebook page, presently a little neglected, which is really just an easy way of keeping myself out there as a dance-related person these days. However, I think it is a good choice if you have students - very easy way to update them, share videos, give them notes etc - provided those students are internet users and the kind of people who might be online some or all of the day, ie desk workers and students and online-savvy mums/self-employed people. If your student base is largely under 35 I would say it's quite important to have.

I only joined FB at the insistence of others and don't really like it all that much, but have found it useful for keeping up with friends overseas. It really came into its own during the quakes as well. For me it's important to block all those ridiculous games. I also don't have anyone on my FB friends list who I don't know personally IRL, or at the very least have studied with. It's under my real name and it is searchable but not public.

I don't like the interface and I don't like the way they constantly change it so you have to keep checking your privacy status. It is definitely set up for first year university students. But my aunts are on it now! And it proved a really good way to get information out to people when most of my family got displaced. I got zillions of messages from cousins etc overseas who were desperate for news (and ironically one of them messaged me via my belly dance website). It is a good way of getting a "free" online presence.

I think FB is there to be used for the tool it is, not lived on.

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

Side note: Youtube is one of the BEST!?!? Get your videos up there ladies!

Are you saying that you have gotten gigs from youtube alone or from youtube vids posted somewhere, like your webpage?

I think Andalee meant YouTube is really good for improving the ranking of your website. That being said, I host my videos on YouTube, and while I don't think I have gotten a gig from someone who found me on that site, I have received most of my gigs because people were able to watch videos of me on YouTube. I always say in the title what month/year it was filmed, so they know there are seeing something recently, and I have had more than one person tell me that is one of the reasons they hired me.
Another reason why Facebook really isn't so good in my opinion. To see videos on Facebook, you have to be signed in, while YouTube is open to all. Before I had an account, there were many things I did not pursue because you had to log in to Facebook to see pictures (costumes for sale, local biz promotions, etc). Actually, I am still turned off by that, a lot of times I won't bother with it because I know if I log in I will get sucked into my personal page. So it seems that at least a few people have lost sales from me because they used Facebook. I never thought about that

Originally Posted by micamica

I think Andalee meant YouTube is really good for improving the ranking of your website. That being said, I host my videos on YouTube, and while I don't think I have gotten a gig from someone who found me on that site, I have received most of my gigs because people were able to watch videos of me on YouTube. I always say in the title what month/year it was filmed, so they know there are seeing something recently, and I have had more than one person tell me that is one of the reasons they hired me.
Another reason why Facebook really isn't so good in my opinion. To see videos on Facebook, you have to be signed in, while YouTube is open to all. Before I had an account, there were many things I did not pursue because you had to log in to Facebook to see pictures (costumes for sale, local biz promotions, etc). Actually, I am still turned off by that, a lot of times I won't bother with it because I know if I log in I will get sucked into my personal page. So it seems that at least a few people have lost sales from me because they used Facebook. I never thought about that

I agree, all of facebook's features are not the best, but it's just like other tools- it's good for specific purposes, and other things fall flat. Kind of like my kitchen tools- the Kitchen Aid claims to do all kinds of things, but I still prefer to knead my bread by hand.

& I totally understand about being sucked in. I pretty much ignore the chat feature especially, but I love it when my sis sees that I'm on facebook (and therefore awake) and calls me up! (we can't figure out the combination of time zones and weird work schedules otherwise, lol!) I've made a little deal with myself tho- I selected view all so I'm not just seeing select people's posts, but once I've read through everything, I make myself log off. I don't browse around or look up old pictures or sit there waiting for someone to post & entertain me. Again, I have to do the same thing with Bhuz too!

Originally Posted by Lara L

No need to be insulting! I'm 33 & not ashamed to say I like using it, as do my other reasonable, mature, adult friends. So you don't like it- doesn't mean you have to insult those who find it useful.

Not being insulting - and I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way.

BUT - dem's the facts.

I hear people complaining ALL the time about these freebie sites - the best way to avoid their problems is to avoid those kinds of sites.

You get what you pay for...

Originally Posted by zorba

Not being insulting - and I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way.

BUT - dem's the facts.

I hear people complaining ALL the time about these freebie sites - the best way to avoid their problems is to avoid those kinds of sites.

You get what you pay for...

Respectfully, it's not a fact, it's your opinion. I am 31 and like facebook and youtube very much. In fact I love youtube!

I am sure there are plenty of non-freebie sites that also have their problems. Nothing can be exactly and perfectly the way you want.

I think it depends on how you use FB to whether it's going to be useful.

The studio where I take ballet posts a variety of things. Special announcements like contests or cancellations, tips on how improve, interesting articles related to dance, video dance clips... I like that the owner seems to be interested in building a community within the studio. I think these subtle reminders that they exist compel me to go back, as well. Although the studio has a lot of amazing things going on for it, I think the social networking stuff must have helped it succeed; it's a bit over a year old and is doing very well.

While you could do most, if not all, of this through your own paid site, a lot of people spend an incredibly amount of time on FB.

FWIW, I find a lot of different people are on FB. It was started when I was in college, and I think my college got FB about 6-9 months after it started; this was when it was only a handful of college and universities. Most of my college friends, who are in the late 20s, still have their accounts and are fairly active.

Originally Posted by zorba

Not being insulting - and I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way.

BUT - dem's the facts.

I hear people complaining ALL the time about these freebie sites - the best way to avoid their problems is to avoid those kinds of sites.

You get what you pay for...

You don't mean to be insulting, but the "facts" are that it is only relevant for 17 year olds? This is what I find insulting. It is a tool. Yes, it is free, that doesn't mean it's worthless, and different people can use tools in different ways. If you simply said it's a free site, you get what you pay for, that's a far cry from calling anyone who uses it immature.

Originally Posted by zorba

Not being insulting - and I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way.

BUT - dem's the facts.

I hear people complaining ALL the time about these freebie sites - the best way to avoid their problems is to avoid those kinds of sites.

You get what you pay for...

Yet, here you are on bhuz, a FREE site, and with it's new upgrades it's practically one step away from being a social networking site.

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

Yet, here you are on bhuz, a FREE site, and with it's new upgrades it's practically one step away from being a social networking site.

And how we love it!

Originally Posted by indigostars

FWIW, I find a lot of different people are on FB. It was started when I was in college, and I think my college got FB about 6-9 months after it started; this was when it was only a handful of college and universities. Most of my college friends, who are in the late 20s, still have their accounts and are fairly active.

My aunties are on it and they're in their mid-late 60s. I have a friend who is over 70 who has a profile, though he doesn't use it a lot. I know heaps of people in their 50s who use it. I also know people who are actually too young to use it, who use it. The spectrum really is very wide.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

My aunties are on it and they're in their mid-late 60s. I have a friend who is over 70 who has a profile, though he doesn't use it a lot. I know heaps of people in their 50s who use it. I also know people who are actually too young to use it, who use it. The spectrum really is very wide.

My husband's Gran was the one who finally convinced us to join- she wanted more pictures of the great-grandkids!

For the record, I have nearly 2800 folks who have "liked" my facebook page. 50% of them are women between the ages of 25-44, and the rest of them are spread over the rest of the spectrum. It's a much older demographic than the 17 year olds. Just sayin'

I enjoy my time on FB. It is especially great for chatting with relatives overseas, like my sister in Germany, or when my daughter is traveling. I wish my brother, who lives in Mexico, would get on FB. I also have relatives who live thousands of miles away in another state, and it is nice to get their updates.

I do love seeing what all my dancer friends are up to and all of their photos.

I don't use it for promotion so much as for networking and keeping in touch.

I hate the games and ignore them completely.

I am WAY over 17!

I really like having FB available, though I agree that I wish they would stop changing it.

Originally Posted by dunyah

I enjoy my time on FB. It is especially great for chatting with relatives overseas, like my sister in Germany, or when my daughter is traveling. I wish my brother, who lives in Mexico, would get on FB. I also have relatives who live thousands of miles away in another state, and it is nice to get their updates.

I do love seeing what all my dancer friends are up to and all of their photos.

I don't use it for promotion so much as for networking and keeping in touch.

I hate the games and ignore them completely.

I am WAY over 17!

I really like having FB available, though I agree that I wish they would stop changing it.

Word for word! :-)

haha just what I was thinking - FB is icky yet I love it for keeping up with my family and real friends on it (amidst the other stuff); and I also find bhuz irritating but I use it as well - so there you go!

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

Yet, here you are on bhuz, a FREE site, and with it's new upgrades it's practically one step away from being a social networking site.