Thread: Music licensing for opening riff of Scheherazade ?

Does anyone know what license (if any) I need to have a live performance of the opening riff of Rimsky's "Scheherazade" played for a show?

I was thinking this should be public domain by now, but I'm never sure. As a writer, he's listed in ASCAP, but there is no specific information given.

For that matter, ASCAP lists this on their site:
ASCAP does not license "dramatic" rights, sometimes called "grand" rights. ASCAP members who write musical plays, operas or ballet scores deal directly with those who want to perform their works "dramatically."

So when we buy licenses for performance, would those performances not be considered dramatic rights? I can't figure out why using music for a 1-act ballet falls under dramatic rights, but a belly dance show using the same music would be held to different standards? Elucidate me, please.

Originally Posted by aziyade

Does anyone know what license (if any) I need to have a live performance of the opening riff of Rimsky's "Scheherazade" played for a show?

I was thinking this should be public domain by now, but I'm never sure. As a writer, he's listed in ASCAP, but there is no specific information given.

For that matter, ASCAP lists this on their site:
ASCAP does not license "dramatic" rights, sometimes called "grand" rights. ASCAP members who write musical plays, operas or ballet scores deal directly with those who want to perform their works "dramatically."

So when we buy licenses for performance, would those performances not be considered dramatic rights? I can't figure out why using music for a 1-act ballet falls under dramatic rights, but a belly dance show using the same music would be held to different standards? Elucidate me, please.

seems it might be "timed out" past all that. so old, it is open .so you want to sample it?....i have a show on tape where a dancer used the whole thing.i can check, but i know they did not pay to use it.

As I understand it, there are multiple layers of licensing. A piece of music may be in the public domain, but the sheet music and recorded performances maintain their own copyrights. For example, I can sing "Camptown Races." I can charge people to hear me sing it, but I can't republish or otherwise copy Dover Publishing's sheet music of the song, and I can't broadcast or charge people to listen to Tony Schwartz's calliope recording of the song without permission.

I can't answer the other part of the question regarding ASCAP's hair splitting on dramatic rights. If you're going to use a commercially recorded version of a public domain song for a dance performance, I assume the record label would control the relevant licensing. Is there a legal aid society near you who could advise on that issue?

It's usually the venue that is responsible for securing music rights for a live show. Are you sure you need to secure the rights at all?

Samira, that was my thought too, but the situation is kind of different. My plan is to hold the show outdoors on our riverfront, which is ostensibly managed by our city parks department (and they will be supplying the electricity and port-o-potties) but they don't seem to take responsibility for anything other than that. There is nothing in my contract with them to indicate they will be responsible for event insurance, and nothing at all for music, so my guess would be that I'm responsible for the music licensing.

Better safe than fined out the wazoo, in other words.

I have a couple of musicians that I'd like to bring in -- and the violinist would be opening the show with the riff I mentioned. Not the whole song; just maybe a couple of repeats of the main theme to set the mood. The other musicians are not trained in ME music, but we've been messing with some rhythm-based improv that I think sounds rather cool. The rest of the music I want to use I'm still trying to figure out HOW to license, since a lot of it is generic medleys from Daniel Der Sahakian Voices of Lebanon label, and they don't specify which songs or which composers are used.

Because of the baby, I'm putting this off until summer of 2012, which should give me more time to coordinate all the music. (In theory.)

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

As I understand it, there are multiple layers of licensing. A piece of music may be in the public domain, but the sheet music and recorded performances maintain their own copyrights. For example, I can sing "Camptown Races." I can charge people to hear me sing it, but I can't republish or otherwise copy Dover Publishing's sheet music of the song, and I can't broadcast or charge people to listen to Tony Schwartz's calliope recording of the song without permission.

I can't answer the other part of the question regarding ASCAP's hair splitting on dramatic rights. If you're going to use a commercially recorded version of a public domain song for a dance performance, I assume the record label would control the relevant licensing. Is there a legal aid society near you who could advise on that issue?

Tourbeau -- I never thought about this, but there might be. There at least is one in Indianapolis, and I'm up there quite a bit. Thanks for the tip!! I would email or call ASCAP myself, but I don't want to attract attention.

I wouldn't stress too much about drawing attention to yourself. The fact that you are asking questions and trying to do the right thing will put you on the "good" list. LOL. And, in truth, it can't possibly be that expensive. I have a concert license with SESAC and it's only $65 for the year + a portion of ticket sale over 10,000 (ahem, yeah, right).

I can't imagine that one song for one live performance is going to be a huge deal.

I think that if it all came down, the city would be responsible, unless they specifically have passed that responsibility on to you. It might be worth a phone call to legal aid.

Dance it, get someone to film it with their cell phone and upload it on youtube on their channel....and pretend you dont know anything about it!
Eh, I mean, just kidding.

Yeah, I would research that further too.

Exciting project!

I don't know if this helps at all, but you might try contacting Tamalyn Dallal about this. She released a CD called Made In Zanzibar which includes a version of Scheherazade fused with Lamma Bada. If she was able to record and release Scheherazade, perhaps she might have information on whether or not it is in the public domain.

Tamalyn Dallal

"Dramatic" rights are for theatrical performances, e.g. putting on a musical. Not for dancing to a piece. So you do not need a dramatic right.

If it's this Rimsky (e.g turn of the 19th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheher...imsky-Korsakov) ) then, yes, the piece is most definitely in the public domain. If you are doing a liver performance (in other words, not playing a CD of it), then you do not need to obtain any licenses, either for copying or for publically performing.



[QUOTE=aziyade;863130]Does anyone know what license (if any) I need to have a live performance of the opening riff of Rimsky's "Scheherazade" played for a show?

I was thinking this should be public domain by now, but I'm never sure. As a writer, he's listed in ASCAP, but there is no specific information given.

For that matter, ASCAP lists this on their site:
ASCAP does not license "dramatic" rights, sometimes called "grand" rights. ASCAP members who write musical plays, operas or ballet scores deal directly with those who want to perform their works "dramatically."
\

Attorney here (though disclaimer: not legal advice, just general info). If a song is in the public domain, then you are free to perform the song, even to play it and record it yourself. However, if you are playing a CD of the song, then, even though the song itself is in the public domain, that particular rendition of the song is still protected by copyright and you would need a license to play the recording.




I can't answer the other part of the question regarding ASCAP's hair splitting on dramatic rights. If you're going to use a commercially recorded version of a public domain song for a dance performance, I assume the record label would control the relevant licensing. Is there a legal aid society near you who could advise on that issue?[/QUOTE]

If you are just using the space, and the city is in no way hiring you to put on the event, then they are not responsible for securing any relevant musical licenses for you. And please don't relay upon any "well, you tried, so they'll be nice" advice. A call to ASCAP/BMI should give you the relevant information regarding their opinion on what licenses you need and how much it would cost. If the price is still too high and you are concerned about the risks, there is a plethora of Middle Eastern music in the public domain, particularly folk pieces, that they could perform for you.


[QUOTE=aziyade;863477]Samira, that was my thought too, but the situation is kind of different. My plan is to hold the show outdoors on our riverfront, which is ostensibly managed by our city parks department (and they will be supplying the electricity and port-o-potties) but they don't seem to take responsibility for anything other than that. There is nothing in my contract with them to indicate they will be responsible for event insurance, and nothing at all for music, so my guess would be that I'm responsible for the music licensing.

One more tidbit (which I will bravely call "advice"). There are often free legal aid clinics in your area. A web search will bring them up. However, they may not be set up to handle intellectual property issues, such as music licenses, or you may not qualify for free advice. Bar organizations may also host "modest means" clinics where attorneys provide advice for middle-class incomes at a reduced rate. It never hurts to give a quick phone call and see what is available for free or reduced rates in your area.

Depending upon your level of business and your risk-adversion, it may be worth it for you to call up an intellectual property or business attorney in your area to go over your concerns. Your state bar website will have an attorney listing for you, and asking any friends who own businesses may give you a personal referral. Bring a list of all of your questions, as well as a list of your business needs. If you've got a business plan, even better. An hour or two with an attorney should provide you with answers on how to protect yourself, including when you need licenses and perhaps forming a business entity to protect personal assets. You could also ask them to review or draft performance contracts for you, particularly specifying who is responsible for obtaining relevant licenses.

Originally Posted by cascading_stars

Attorney here (though disclaimer: not legal advice, just general info).

Thank you for the advice!!! I appreciate it!!