Thread: client getting mad at my fees???? ##?^%^@

So, I had people that called before and told me my fee was too expensive for them and they were going to call other people. That's ok. No problem, most people think that is too expensive anyways. But today I got a call from a woman who wanted a small performance + 1 hour class at her home for her and some of her friends.
She explained that her budget was small and I tried to be understanding.
She took her time explaining what her needs were and then when I told her that I charged $175 for a 15min performance and that in her case I could do a 5 minute performance and teach a 45 min class for $250, she went mad.
She got really upset on how I could even think in charging that much, that it was ridiculous and she would never spend more than $50 in "something like this" and she was going to call other people in tow, because she knew she would find a better deal.
And that went on for like 5 minute where I tried to explain my costs (training, +10 years experience, costume) for nothing....I couldn't believe.
Is this getting more frequent??

I don't mind turning someone down, I lose a business here but gain another in the future. What I can't take is the offensive tone.
I finally had to say, ok, thanks for calling, have a great day, bye.

..sorry I had to share.

It has nothing to do with you or your fees, and everything to do with her. She's the one with the problem, not you.

Glad you kept your cool and professionalism. You get what you pay for in this life.

kudos, charge away!!!!

Don't let one client's stupidity get you down. It's her lost...

Years and years ago, I worked for Victoria's Secret in Beverly Center in Los Angeles. We were right on the edge of Beverly Hills and our average sale was around $125. We had a company wide policy about not boxing any sale which was less than $75. (keep in mind that this was back when you could buy 4 pair of panties for $15. Now I believe its $25) A woman came in and spent $50 on a gift. We happily gave her a box and tissue paper, but didn't box it up for her.

Were we handed an ear full! To this woman, $50 was a lot of money! And we were being disrespectful! I paused, put it into perspective and picked up the bag. I let her know what company policy was and that I was doing her a favor and went in back and boxed up the gift for her. She later wrote a thank you card.

The lesson is that it's all about perspective. Obviously for the woman in my story and the woman Vivi was speaking to, $50 is a lot of money. I agree that it is inappropriate for the client to be abusive. And had my client been so, I probably would have simply stated company policy and offered to cancel the transaction. Instead, we were able to work out something. And had Vivi's client been willing to listen, maybe she could have done so also.

Meanwhile, while being polite and professional is good, when faced with an abusive client, it is perfectly alright, once you figure out that they won't listen anyway, to simply say, I am sorry I can't help you. Good luck. And then HANG UP THE PHONE!

{{{HUGS}}}

And that went on for like 5 minute where I tried to explain my costs (training, +10 years experience, costume) for nothing....I couldn't believe.

Explaining your costs never helps. Do you think the Mercedes car company is going to explain the cost of their parts when someone questions why their cars are so expensive?

See this article on my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...50237638341204


As for the woman, I'm guessing she really wanted to have a belly dance performance at her event, and was upset to learn that it was out of her price range.

Shira,
I've read your article about belly dance fees before and I know better. Usually I don't get caught off guard with impoliteness and so there is no need to explain my costs. My price is what it is. My response while "amateurish" in your opinion was actually an emotional reaction to what was being thrown at me. I never had an impolite client before, that's all.

Tahira,
That is a very interesting perspective. Great story too.
But some people, as you mention, just won't listen and better not take my time wrapping that package :-)

Originally Posted by vivi

Shira,
I've read your article about belly dance fees before and I know better. Usually I don't get caught off guard with impoliteness and so there is no need to explain my costs. My price is what it is. My response while "amateurish" in your opinion was actually an emotional reaction to what was being thrown at me. I never had an impolite client before, that's all.

Vivi, yes, I can easily understand how her anger could have thrown you off your usual rhythm of handling the conversation. And yes, it's easy to react to someone else's emotional outburst with some emotion of your own! Even after all these years, I too sometimes get caught by surprise when a caller says something that throws me off my game!

It may be useful to be able to steer the conversation toward the going rates for other performers in your area, since it's pretty likely that this person has no idea that belly dancers are usually inexpensively priced compared to what else is out there. Not that it's your job to talk up work for singing gorillas and Donald Trump impersonators, but it may give the customer some perspective, much like Tahira's Victoria's Secret story (only without the rule-bending favor part...). Just tell yourself that this person simply doesn't know better and keep calm. If the customer decides to price shop, and finds out that there aren't really any bargains to be had, there's always the off chance she'll rethink and come crawling back if you acted mature and helpful.

Though it doesn't help with this situation, if you've got a website, you can always post your rates there, just to aviod the situation (though it might still happen, some people are just bent on getting a deal).

I think the biggest issue, as others have said, is that people just don't know how much a belly dancer costs. And so true Tourbeau! I aways remind people that they are paying for a skilled entertainer, not some person who will show up in costume and shake. Why do people magically expect belly dancers to be a cheap party option? You wouldn't pay $50 and expect a magician to come to a party, or a clown for that matter. Entertainment is not enexpensive. You are paying for a specific skill set that tooks years of time and financial investment to aquire.

But some people just don't get that, and it's not always their fault. I think you handled the situation as best you could. The most important thing is to remain as professional as possible, even in the face of foolery People know people, and our's is often a business of referrals.

I agree with Shira- I don't go over why I charge what I do, it's generally a take it or leave it proposition (tho I don't use that phrasing!)

the exception is when my pricing includes studio fees for private lessons- I have no problem explaining that I can deduct studio fees if they have a suitable location for the lesson. I do go into great detail about what "suitable" entails, lol!

I totally get being upset in the moment and getting flustered, tho. I've had years in sales to help me learn how to stay even tempered (being a mom helps with unreasonable requests too.) My absolute favorite is the folks at fairs & conventions who are deal hunting. "What will you give me if I buy $100 worth of stuff?" $100 worth of stuff.

Originally Posted by Kanikah

You wouldn't pay $50 and expect a magician to come to a party, or a clown for that matter.

Actually, I believe that people who have never before hired an entertainer WOULD expect that to be possible. Many people just aren't familiar with what entertainers charge.

Oh god..Lara $100 worth of stuff is a killer.
Yes I agree prices should be on my site, but I don't do a lot of gigs and I focus on classes, I also like to talk to the person before saying the number, but nothing like plain clean price for everyone to see.

Thanks everyone,

I never explain my price. If they get snotty and start " threatening " to look elsewhere etc. Then I sometimes dare suggest that of course you can shop elsewhere but this is the going rate for professional entertainment. And you may find cheaper but it's ip to you whether you want to hire good entertainment or cheap entertainment.
Then hang up.

Who knows why people do this. Honestly, I think a lot of the 'emotional' responses are actually attempts to bargain you down... bully you down... whatever. If you are trying to be 'fair' and they are trying to wheedle the cheapest deal possible you are NOT going to meet in the middle. And since you are dealing with people, you'll always have one more customer get under your skin somehow, sometime, somewhere. At this point I think one customer out of three callers will decide to pay our fee and go with us... dealing with the wheedling and BS is part of the price you pay for charging enough :) The last wheedler pissed my daughter off so much she raised her prices by $200 ... we'll see if that lasts.... and do put the prices on your website. It will help screen the $50 callers, at least, and then you have a reference for the rest.

Our favorite wheedler remains the lovely Indian lady who wanted a dancer for her ladies luncheon for $75 because that's what she paid someone else the previous year. When asked why she simply didn't hire that dancer again, the lady responded 'because she wasn't any good.' Out of her own mouth, and the connection still eluded her... I guess she thought she overpaid the previous year and would make sure she got her money's worth this time...

Ok so what do you get for $100 worth of stuff???

I think you did the right thing by getting off the phone, Vivi. There was nothing you were going to say to this woman that would convince her to change her mind and accept your rate.

She was way out of line and you don't have to put up with verbal abuse. It's disappointing to learn that something costs 5X what you expected. I can certainly understand her wanting to check with some other service providers to get a better sense of the going rate. But yelling at you was rude and uncalled for, and you don't have to stand still for that, especially from someone who isn't even your customer!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Actually, I believe that people who have never before hired an entertainer WOULD expect that to be possible. Many people just aren't familiar with what entertainers charge.

I agree with Shira -- I wouldn't have known. I remember the first time I wrote a roundup article on children's birthday providers in my area, I was shocked to learn that a clown or magician cost $125-200! I don't know what I thought it would cost, maybe $50 or $75?

Still, I'm positive I wouldn't have yelled at the entertainer when I learned I was wrong!

Some people pull out all the emotional stops in the negotiating process. One woman repeatedly says to me "but I love you, you're like my daughter" ... to which I finally cheerfully responded "well then you wouldn't want me to starve and this is the price of my business" lol.
It's hard- but it's never actually a reflection on US. They may be ignorant of the cost of live entertainment. They may NOT be but just really like to drive a hard bargain. Either way... it's them and their agenda. I let them take it elsewhere.

Originally Posted by gloworm25

Ok so what do you get for $100 worth of stuff???

Originally Posted by gloworm25

Ok so what do you get for $100 worth of stuff???

Okay, for you, because you're so sweet and I just KNOW you're going to tell all your friends, you get $100 worth of stuff and my sincere appreciation. Oh, and a cheesy smile! Don't forget the cheesy smile!

Originally Posted by Lara L

Okay, for you, because you're so sweet and I just KNOW you're going to tell all your friends, you get $100 worth of stuff and my sincere appreciation. Oh, and a cheesy smile! Don't forget the cheesy smile!

Or you could always phone in the show via Skype. In your yoga pants and hip scarf. Full-glam makeup and costuming available at an additional upcharge

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Or you could always phone in the show via Skype. In your yoga pants and hip scarf. Full-glam makeup and costuming available at an additional upcharge

I can see it now:

"Look, all I can afford is $50. Why can't you do it for $50?"
"Well, let's see. We'll just nix the costume and make up- and I can't afford the gas to get there, so how about if you pick me up after my yoga class. But you have to have me back before 7, because I need to meet with another client and should at least take a shower. Please have whatever music I am going to use all cued up on the stereo, and make sure there is a beer in the kitchen for me too. I wouldn't want to faint from dehydration in the middle of the show! And you don't mind that I haven't had time to practice for the last month right?"

Originally Posted by Lara L

I can see it now:

"Look, all I can afford is $50. Why can't you do it for $50?"
"Well, let's see. We'll just nix the costume and make up- and I can't afford the gas to get there, so how about if you pick me up after my yoga class. But you have to have me back before 7, because I need to meet with another client and should at least take a shower. Please have whatever music I am going to use all cued up on the stereo, and make sure there is a beer in the kitchen for me too. I wouldn't want to faint from dehydration in the middle of the show! And you don't mind that I haven't had time to practice for the last month right?"

Ha ha ha!

"OK, so your budget is $50. Let me see what I can come up with. Well....since gas and tolls to Orlando will cost MORE than $50, I will lose money simply by putting my key in the ignition and driving to your location. But not all is lost! I can perform remotely. My iPhone takes pretty good video and my boyfriend's pretty good at holding it steady. I can go ahead and dance for you, and text you the video! Oh, don't mind the construction on the porch, or the clutter, and I have two pugs who like to fight with each other, so if you hear squirrelly noises in the background....don't mind that, either. OK, I'm about to dance. Lucky for you, I just moved here from the Greater NY area and I can do a very cool specialty style from the Northeast that I think you're going to love. [cues up Enrique Iglesias' "I Like It" and starts fist pumping, Jersey Shore style] Oh wait. You never specified that you want me to BELLY dance."

Sorry, I've got my ranty pants on today. I needed that.

Originally Posted by maurazebra

... When asked why she simply didn't hire that dancer again, the lady responded 'because she wasn't any good.' Out of her own mouth, and the connection still eluded her... I guess she thought she overpaid the previous year and would make sure she got her money's worth this time...

Amazing isn't it? LOL

Vivi, there are plenty of people out there who react with anger when things don't go their way, the rub is that it usually works for them and they end up getting what they want because there are plenty of other people that don't like or try to avoid conflict.

I feel sorry for the dancer not so willing to stick to her convictions and attempting to appease the non-customer with a price drop, what would be the next thing she would get angry about? Wrong colour costume? Or end up dissatisfied with the job, get angry about it and not pay? Disaster client.

Says a lot about having a clear idea of the type of client you do want to work with and being able to quickly tag the ones that will only produce a toxic relationship with very little short term and no long term benefits.

I just got off the phone to another potential customer who got upset at me because of my fee to dance on New Years Eve.

Over the last couple of weeks I've been quoting on gigs for New Years Eve. So far I have had discussions with several possible clients & no one has booked yet. In the past I have charged double (sometimes more) the usual rate for a private party on New Years Eve & usually got 2 or 3 bookings.

This year when quoting & last year as well, many of the clients are surprised at the cost & try to bargain me down a lot. I am ok to negotiate a little, depending on the start time, how far I have to travel, if it will allow me to do other gigs on the same night etc. But the clients this year are negotiating hard. Even though I explain the prices are different on New Years Eve & dancers are in high demand, some are expecting to pay the same or a lesser price than any ordinary night!

Others that finally agree to the 20 minute show price want me to provide 'extra bang for their buck' by staying for extra time e.g. up to an hour for free! I say I usually stay for 5-10mins extra for free if the audience are enjoying it & I don't have subsequent bookings. They want me to stay for an hour, so I tell them the price for an hour or 2 sets. They don't want to pay that & they assure me that other dancers they have spoken to will stay extra for free (I'm sure others don't!). A guy I spoke to yesterday wanted 2 dancers from 11pm - 1am. I told him the price for 2 roving performers for 2 hours. That was unaffordable for him, so I suggested 1 dancer for 20minutes. He then OK he will get the 20minute show... he then told me that he wanted the dancer to arrive at 11pm, dance 11:30-12:00, stay for new years eve speeches, get photos with all the guest & dance with everyone & leave at 1pm. (LOL nice try). When I explained that would be the same price as the 2 hour roving performance he was shocked & said I didn't need to charge for that part of it because I would be looked after at the party with food, cake and drinks (hahahahha nice try again)

Anyway Im used to all this sort of enquiries, some do make me laugh to myself, but I do seem to be getting more than usual this year. I have stuck with my price & the clients say they will check with their friends & get back to me, which they rarely do. I know that means they are probably ringing around to other dancers.

This year I have been thinking that I’m not too concerned if I don't get any bookings on New Years Eve. I've decided I'm not going to negotiate down too much: Its a public holiday, it's our peak time of year so I'm already stuffed from my pre Christmas gigs & other job, parking is pretty much impossible, there are so many idiots out there on NYE & it would be nice to spend the evening with my husband & our friends.

I was just wondering if others experience this & how you respond when discussing New Years Eve prices with clients?

Originally Posted by maurazebra

...Our favorite wheedler remains the lovely Indian lady who wanted a dancer for her ladies luncheon for $75 because that's what she paid someone else the previous year. When asked why she simply didn't hire that dancer again, the lady responded 'because she wasn't any good.' Out of her own mouth, and the connection still eluded her... I guess she thought she overpaid the previous year and would make sure she got her money's worth this time...

I have spelled it out for people... "you pay little money for little experience. You got the quality you paid for..."

start at a more expensive price then you charge. then when they say they can not afford it go down. use reverse phycology and say is this with in your buget"for you this price" they when she says it is still to high say i am so sorry. i hope you find what you are looking for. i can not go below *****

Originally Posted by kaylah_dancer

They don't want to pay that & they assure me that other dancers they have spoken to will stay extra for free ...

Then I'd ask them "So why are you talking to me? Go ahead and hire that other dancer!"