Thread: I need some encouraging words

I've gotten a few gig inquiries lately. And then I don't hear back from the potential client after they hear my price. I am not charging an exorbitant fee, although it must seem like that to them. And compared to some other dancers in the area, I do charge a higher price. But I also know that I'm worth it, and won't go lower. It's so discouraging though.

What do you do to stay positive when people gasp at your price? Or they always ask, "is that the best you can do? can you go any lower" and I say no. Should I start quoting them $25 more initially so that it will seem like I'm compromising???

Originally Posted by theothershimmytwin

What do you do to stay positive when people gasp at your price? Or they always ask, "is that the best you can do? can you go any lower" and I say no. Should I start quoting them $25 more initially so that it will seem like I'm compromising???

Ignore the gasp. It's the first thing folks will LEARN to do when attempting to bargain with you.

Second - sure, quote higher if it makes negotiation easier. Or ask THEM what they can work with. But NEVER go below your comfort level, because word -of-mouth works with prices, too.

Stick to your prices. It's frustrating when getting "shopped". I've dealt with a fair bit of that myself. Even losing gigs to a dancer from out of town who is charging way less. I just figure I probably don't want to deal with those folks anyway.

most people want to bargin. so i think starting with a high price is a good idea. you can always shorten your show time if the price you are asking is out of there buget. also what you are asking has to be reasonable for the clients that are highering you.charge what ever you feel comfortable with. if you chose a really high price it is your choice but if no one is paying it it might be to high and you are pricing your self out of gigs.

People do like to feel like they got a bargain. Even a fake one.

When they say they need to shop around for cheaper dancers, I calmly mention that they are welcome to do that and add "Remember that you get what you pay for. I am an experienced professional dancer and entertainer. My fees guarantee a quality show." It helps to mention that your calendar fills up quickly because you are in demand. You cannot guarantee that the date they need will be available if they delay.

Prepare your bottom line in your head ($$ + performance length) for the usual gigs (wedding, party, corporate). Prepare your regular/ideal line too (sounds like you already have).

Example: If you quote a private party for, say, $300 for 20 minutes. Your "deal" that you offer could be $250 for a 15 minute show. To ensure they don't think your fees are by the minute, mention that anything less than 15 minutes is still $250 (in consideration of travel and prep time).

I found it very helpful to list my performance fees on my website. It helped screen a lot of calls. I could also refer email inquiries and those calling just to shop around to my site and asked them to contact me once they figured out what type of show they needed for their event. It offers people a graceful way to bow out if they can't afford me.

Good luck. You are not alone. Many of us struggle with this. Thank goodness for community!

What ridiculous is that my pricing would probably seem to most of you like *I* was the one that was undercutting and that the clients ended up hiring for my low, low fees.

:(

For instance, take the client who wanted an hour and a half of belly dancing for a small get together on a sunday night. I explained that an hour would be quite enough time for entertainment, especially if it's just a small get together, and that I would do two sets in that time, with a costume change. And I would have to drive 45 minutes. And I priced it at $175!!!! (it's a sunday night, so not peak belly dancing gig hours). she asked if I could go lower.and she didn't call me back. 150 is my starting rate and I was being generous by only charging her $25 more (and really that was for gas!).

woe.

I don't want to put my fees online, because $150 is my starting rate, and I charge more according to driving time, requests of the clients, etc, and I don't want them to say, "I thought you charge $150- it's what it says on your website" after telling me all sorts of ridiculous requests.

I suppose I will have to outline that too.

I get caught in this scenario too, since our market has been flooded with students over the past several years. (Both for performances and teaching workshops).

I absolutely hate bargaining (Canadian, I am!) and since I don't like to get caught off guard (I usually end up underpricing myself slightly ), I prepared a price list summary for myself that I open and refer to when talking to someone. It helps me stay focused. I usually end up bargaining in the manner Hala suggested (slightly shorter show for slightly less, to a minimum). I prefer this to artificially inflating my prices for the purposes of bargaining - it doesn't seem fair to those clients who don't like to bargain either...

I have since also prepared a written summary of the various show options and pricing that I email to those inquiring. I also include a bit of my background and some reasons why they should consider hiring (and thus paying for) a professional dancer.

And because of a really frustrating and bad experience about 6 months ago (sigh, it only takes one bad apple...), I also now make people review and sign a contract...even for house parties.

If they accept all this, then I would love to dance for them. If they don't, then it's usually people I probably would not enjoy dealing with anyway. It is initially discouraging to have someone not hire me due to price, but eventually I realize that I didn't need the frustration.

Interestingly, I thought the summary of costs and the contract might deter people from hiring me, but I've actually had very positive feedback. Two clients said that it actually gave them a level of confidence that they were hiring a professional :-)

Keep your head high and stick to your guns - you ARE worth it!

I agree that you should list your prices on your website. I used to get those types of calls ALL. THE. TIME. before I listed my prices, and now I don't get them at all anymore. By the time someone actually calls me, they've seen the prices and are serious about booking.

I know you said you don't want to do that because of travel expenses, etc, but if you clearly say that these are BASE prices and will be increased for variables like travel, holidays, etc, it will not be a problem. Instead of just listing the price as if that's the set price, you can say "starting at $..." so they know it will likely go up from there.

Originally Posted by theothershimmytwin

For instance, take the client who wanted an hour and a half of belly dancing for a small get together on a sunday night. I explained that an hour would be quite enough time for entertainment, especially if it's just a small get together, and that I would do two sets in that time, with a costume change. And I would have to drive 45 minutes. And I priced it at $175!!!! (it's a sunday night, so not peak belly dancing gig hours). she asked if I could go lower.and she didn't call me back. 150 is my starting rate and I was being generous by only charging her $25 more (and really that was for gas!).

woe.

I don't want to put my fees online, because $150 is my starting rate, and I charge more according to driving time, requests of the clients, etc, and I don't want them to say, "I thought you charge $150- it's what it says on your website" after telling me all sorts of ridiculous requests.

I suppose I will have to outline that too.

I ask alot of questions before I quote a price, including the type/length of show, location, day of the week and time.

My lowest price is based on an 8-to-10-minute "gram" type of show and rises from there, but I need the other info in order to price it accordingly.

For example, if I'm traveling 60 miles through Los Angeles traffic on a Friday night to make a "gram" at 7:00pm, that's going to cost more than the same gig, same distance, on Sunday at 2:00pm, if for no other reason than the time spent traveling will be about twice as long on Friday as it will be on Sunday. Not to mention the headache involved in driving LA traffic at rush hour. Oy. My head hurts just thinking about it. The difference in fee won't be huge, but it will be ... um ... different.

Thus, my fee structure is from X.

Deborah

ETA: sorry about the near duplication of Daniela's post; just saw it -- great minds think alike!

Hang in there. Times are tough all over, and between a crappy economy and total market oversaturation, a LOT of us are frustrated right now. (Ever since I relocated, I'm dealing with the lion's share of price shoppers and price competition in my new community, so you bet I'm tweaking my sales approach as well).

You might want to try not only quoting a higher price to start, but also offer up your longer set from the get-go. This way, if they complain about the price of your set, you have some wiggle room to offer them a shorter show at a more agreeable price for them. If that doesn't work, then let some other dancer take the gig.

Also: Be everything to someone, not something for everyone. Maybe you need to do some soul searching and figure out who your ideal customer is? It's tough to walk away from the table without making a deal, but if you can concretely understand the type of clientele you like to work with, it becomes easier to let go of those gigs that Just Weren't Meant to Be.

I know there is more than just my price that is driving potential clients away: an out of date website and photos, oversaturation of the market (meaning more and more dancers to choose from ) my prop use (I don't do fire props) but I feel like my prices are actually low. And HOUR of belly dancing for $175? I was ridiculous to quote that! But many dancers down here would quote $150 and do the gig! And it's not because they aren't good and don't deserve more, it's because they have to, or else someone else will take it!

It's true, I don't want these gigs if I have to deal with the type of person that wants to pay minimal for a belly dance show. I don't give a minimal performance. I prepare a lot and make the client a priority. Last month I did a birthday party where there was a DJ, catering, and a magician (kid's party) and the parents still asked if I could lower my price. If they can hire all of that fancy stuff (and you know the magician wasn't getting base rate) then they can afford to pay me my standard rate!

I think I will start quoting higher in order to bargain.

Thanks for the words of support, and advice. I just got an email from an old client who thought the world of me, so hopefully I just scored another (and worthwhile) gig!

Your show is TOTALLY worth the price you quoted - and more.

You are dealing with a highly saturated market and a more depressed economy than MN (GA is about 9% unemployment rate, and most jobs don't pay like MN ones do). You will have to let some gigs go to the dancers who charge less, just because your prospective clients probably have less money to pay you with.

Your best bet may be to tell anyone who objects to the price that you have a firm price for your basic show, and that you charge additional for distance driving or longer/more complicated shows. You're sorry if your fee doesn't work with their plans today, but please keep you in mind for future events - and you hope they have a great party.

Stay upbeat, positive, and respectful (no one wants to be made to feel that they are poor or cheap), and I bet that you will get a few clients calling you back after they think about it and get over the sticker shock.

Hang in there!

hang in there! also really try to get them to hire you for 20-30 min max unless people are dancing with you for the remaining time. i hour is too long attention spand is 20 minj. people want to get there moneys worth but they do not realize how long an hour is, you want to leave them wanting more not wishing the show was over so they can get back to socializing.

I'm really glad to see that you are going to start quoting higher. From experience I can say this really, really helps.
The nice thing IS, some people won't try to bargain and then this higher rate will become your "norm."

Originally Posted by theothershimmytwin

...
I don't want to put my fees online, because $150 is my starting rate, and I charge more according to driving time, requests of the clients, etc, and I don't want them to say, "I thought you charge $150- it's what it says on your website" after telling me all sorts of ridiculous requests.
....

Ridiculous people will be ridiculous no matter what... and it is NO reflection on you.
I encourage you to put something similar to:
"Dancer X's beautiful shows start at $XXX for up to a 25 minute show. Typical shows are 15-20 minutes. Rates will vary with travel time, prime time, specialties etc. Weddings and corporate events start at $XXX. "
(the first $XXX should be your base rate plus $25 to allow for negotiation... the wedding and corporate rate should be a little higher. More "players" requires more of your time.)
Clear, professional statement of prices makes for fewer ridiculous callers. You'll attract a different kind of client.

Theothershimmytwin, are you originally from the Twin Cities? I think I saw you perform at the Northland Belly Dance Forum, and I would say that $150 is too low!

I know your pain! It can be frustrating, but stick to it! When I hear the gasp, I always say "well, there are amateur dancers who will charge less, but you get what you pay for." I leave it to them after that. People don't want to look cheap.